When do you admit that you love someone?

[Belgarion]

Part two.

That would be very happy, I guess. Especially in the later years when you will look back at it. Growing up together, at least a little, is a great thing as well, I suppose.

YES! I want to be able to grow with her! My parents were together at a very young age, too. (Around my age, my dad was younger)
and I can say that being together at a younger age is helpful. First, those who get together at an older age have a harder time adapting to married life since they were so set on their previous routine. Sure, there are exceptions, but my point still stands
However, that’s not the only reason why marrying young is appealing to me. Like my father, I want to be able to spend time with my kids. I want to be able to DO things with them. Before m back starts to bother me or something like that!!

Able is not the same as ready.

True. I’m not ready to leave. But that’s because of my relationship wtih my siblings AND the career path I’ve chosen. Since I’m working at home, my parents are paying for all my college education. So when I graduate, I’ll be debt-free like my sister was. If I leave in some sort of fight or something…all those years of work FOR the college money goes out the window.

How do they behave when there is already a marriage? How far do they involve?

Hmm…I don’t recall hearing any complaints from the married ones. They don’t seem to meddle, but I can ask.

She’s 19. That’s adult. I remember when I was 19. I wasn’t self-sufficient or anything, but I was a voter, able to sign a valid contract, viable on my own out in the world. The rule you talk about feels incompatible with this condition.

which is why I need to talk to him. My parents are very trustworthy, so they shouldnt’ worry about anything bad happening.
The thing is, I just hear that they refuse to make compromises. Regardless of gender, its THEIR way, or NO WAY…or so I hear. I may be mistaken.
However, I still have to try.

Maybe in a moment. I wouldn’t like to throw words on the wind if I’m wrong, though I’d hate to keep you impatient.

Yes…I’m growling with impatience…

Well, let’s hope your hypothesis isn’t a prediction of a horrifying ending to this…

I see.

I’ll let you know about THAT, too!
There are other strange things I noticed… Strange in perhaps a good way…but I don’t want to read into things or speak too soon.

 

[chevalier]

I wouldn’t say pre-planned, but rather just planned. its a Space-time thing…
A one time chance? Maybe. But I don’t think God would give us just one chance and then give up on us. Same person or a different one, I don’t know, but still.

Your experiences are shared, I’ve been led to a woman that I thought was a good match. There were a ton of coincidences that just led me to think God was guiding me. And perhaps He was! But the relationship never took place. Suffice to say it didn’t end well. But I realized that she wasn’t the right one for me because she was a different kind of person. Not my type.

I generally come to that conclusion as well in the end.

Or all people. Your experiences shape the way you react to certain events. If you wouldn’t react a certain way UNLESS you had a certain failed relationship, and it was necessary for you to act that certain way in order that you may meet your future wife…the failed relationship had a positive effect overall.

Perhaps, but that’s not enough grounds to suppose it was pre-planned.

No, I don’t think that’s the case. perhaps he just doesn’t trust anyone.

I see. Well, to an extent, I can understand him. But it’s extreme.

Of course. I just want to be able to say them in private. Its a shyness thing for me, and I don’t think anyone would blame me for not wanting to say sweet and meaningful words in front of her family.

Agreed.

The real HER, not the one who I see with her family. I am different around my family, too.

Yeah. Well, sharing lives with families is an important thing, but you marry a woman, not a tribe.

and I can say that being together at a younger age is helpful. First, those who get together at an older age have a harder time adapting to married life since they were so set on their previous routine. Sure, there are exceptions, but my point still stands

Agreed.

The thing is, I just hear that they refuse to make compromises. Regardless of gender, its THEIR way, or NO WAY…or so I hear. I may be mistaken.

That’s worrying because it feels like a supremacy thing. I find it hard to believe that the girl herself would want to put you in a her way or no way situation. The father cannot really think that, either. It’s a bit much when he uses her consent to justify his decisions.

Yes…I’m growling with impatience…

My idea was that maybe he was putting you to a test. You don’t really put people to a test if you already know they aren’t worthy. We don’t know what will happen when he gives it a green light, when he will do that, or what will happen later. So perhaps he might be seeing you as a worthy candidate, also adding the fact of the friendly ties between you, and not wanting to allow things to go wrong. But this is unlikely. To me, it sounds more like a Scottish chieftain kind of thing.

There are other strange things I noticed… Strange in perhaps a good way…but I don’t want to read into things or speak too soon.

That’s wise.

 

[Belgarion]

A one time chance? Maybe. But I don’t think God would give us just one chance and then give up on us. Same person or a different one, I don’t know, but still.

Wh would it have to be more? God DOES know what He is doing. He could time things perfectly if He wants.
I believe when Rebekah was brought to Tobias, Raphael said that they were destined for each other (since the beginning of time if I remember right). that’s proof enough for me.

I generally come to that conclusion as well in the end.

Unfortunate. I wish no one had to do that

Perhaps, but that’s not enough grounds to suppose it was pre-planned.

but a bible verse is

I see. Well, to an extent, I can understand him. But it’s extreme.

I can understand him, too…Its just incredibly painful for me.

Yeah. Well, sharing lives with families is an important thing, but you marry a woman, not a tribe.

True, but I still want to stay on good terms with them.

That’s worrying because it feels like a supremacy thing. I find it hard to believe that the girl herself would want to put you in a her way or no way situation. The father cannot really think that, either. It’s a bit much when he uses her consent to justify his decisions.

Yeah, well I’m getting conflicting stories from within their family…so I’m not sure of anything anymore…LOL

My idea was that maybe he was putting you to a test. You don’t really put people to a test if you already know they aren’t worthy. We don’t know what will happen when he gives it a green light, when he will do that, or what will happen later. So perhaps he might be seeing you as a worthy candidate, also adding the fact of the friendly ties between you, and not wanting to allow things to go wrong. But this is unlikely. To me, it sounds more like a Scottish chieftain kind of thing.

Well I really hope it was a test…Because I can pass tests! I’m impatient, sure…but I am not a loser.
One thing that bugs me is that according to one of my sources, I can’t court until I’m ready to get married. Logical I suppose. But for crying out loud, I have to get to know her better! Trust me, I can’t do that effectively as a friend unless I do SOMETHING different! I’m worried that that something might not be acceptable…
…ugh…my sources are confusing me…

But hopefully her father will straighten things out. I’ll see the family tomorrow, hopefully. I doubt he’d want to talk THEN, but there’s always a chance…

 

[chevalier]

Wh would it have to be more? God DOES know what He is doing. He could time things perfectly if He wants.
I believe when Rebekah was brought to Tobias, Raphael said that they were destined for each other (since the beginning of time if I remember right). that’s proof enough for me.

There is free will, so we don’t always follow. Few of us, if any, meet an angel. If something is true for Tobias, it doesn’t mean it’s true for every other guy on earth.

but a bible verse is

See above.

True, but I still want to stay on good terms with them.

You do.

Yeah, well I’m getting conflicting stories from within their family…so I’m not sure of anything anymore…LOL

Well, someone’s obviously not controlling it.

Well I really hope it was a test…Because I can pass tests! I’m impatient, sure…but I am not a loser.

Not only losers lose. Some tests are rigged. Some are just, well, too difficult at a given time. And some will not be passed because you don’t accept the “correct answers”.

One thing that bugs me is that according to one of my sources, I can’t court until I’m ready to get married. Logical I suppose. But for crying out loud, I have to get to know her better! Trust me, I can’t do that effectively as a friend unless I do SOMETHING different! I’m worried that that something might not be acceptable…
…ugh…my sources are confusing me…

You can know her enough as a friend. You don’t need to “do” anything. However, if your sources were right, that’d be more than just extreme. You can’t even really be a friend because you never get to talk alone - and what friendship is there without talking alone, without some serious conversations that other people are not meant to hear? There’s no dating. “Courting” only when you’re ready to marry. So several years of such stuff? Family-attended conversations about the weather?
What’s worrying is that this means the father’s control lasts somewhere into twenties or later. Sigh… No, I can’t see it all as the right way. People make mistakes when unattended, especially in today’s world, but… I just can’t imagine that. As an 18-19 year old, while I was a parentally-supported student (university tuition was for free if you passed them exam), I went where I wanted. It doesn’t mean the family wasn’t interested or involved or even curious, but I had none of that stuff. I have known good Catholic young ladies who weren’t on a short leash and still behaved. Granted, by mid-twenties most people have already strayed away in one or more ways, but strict parental control is not the answer to that.

But hopefully her father will straighten things out. I’ll see the family tomorrow, hopefully. I doubt he’d want to talk THEN, but there’s always a chance…

He can’t really send you away. I don’t think he would.

 

[Belgarion]

There is free will, so we don’t always follow. Few of us, if any, meet an angel. If something is true for Tobias, it doesn’t mean it’s true for every other guy on earth.

in the same way, not everyone confesses their sins to Jesus would that make the Sacrament of Reconciliation invalid?
I’m sure that’s a flimsy argument on my part, but perhaps you still understand my point.

You do.

Yep

Well, someone’s obviously not controlling it.

I think I"ve got things straightened out now…it doesn’t seem so hopeless anymore.

Not only losers lose. Some tests are rigged. Some are just, well, too difficult at a given time. And some will not be passed because you don’t accept the “correct answers”.

Well, I just meant that I’m not some idiot who is going after a young woman because of his hormones. If a test is rigged, then I have no business with them anyways. HOwever, that’s not the case. The purpose of a test, if it was one, is to determine one’s character. Sure, I can get whiney and impatient. But hopefully I’ve shown myself to …not be a loser

You can know her enough as a friend. You don’t need to “do” anything. However, if your sources were right, that’d be more than just extreme. You can’t even really be a friend because you never get to talk alone - and what friendship is there without talking alone, without some serious conversations that other people are not meant to hear? There’s no dating. “Courting” only when you’re ready to marry. So several years of such stuff? Family-attended conversations about the weather?

You know, I can actually steal some time alone with her. MOstly I try to open up to her on some level so that she’ll be more comfortable opening up to me. Tonight as we were leaving the church, I told her that she looked amazing and made several related comments. We walked outside (with really no one around us) and talked about a little bit before someone caught up. Sure, having that kind of idea where someone HAS to be there is…illogical…but its not like a prison or something.
Not to mention that a source explained that the young woman and I would be able to go out on unchaperoned dates during courtship. That was good news for me. And it was part of what was confusing me since I heard otherwise.
As for the “No courting until you’re ready for marriage” its kind of ridiculous, but my source also mentioned something about being within a year of being ready to be married is…acceptable? Not sure. But financially, I could be ready to marry in two summers or so, if I wanted. Perhaps three summers, but that’s not counting the rest of the year at all. If I step things up with both my career and education…whew…It wouldn’t take long.

What’s worrying is that this means the father’s control lasts somewhere into twenties or later. Sigh… No, I can’t see it all as the right way. People make mistakes when unattended, especially in today’s world, but… I just can’t imagine that. As an 18-19 year old, while I was a parentally-supported student (university tuition was for free if you passed them exam), I went where I wanted. It doesn’t mean the family wasn’t interested or involved or even curious, but I had none of that stuff. I have known good Catholic young ladies who weren’t on a short leash and still behaved. Granted, by mid-twenties most people have already strayed away in one or more ways, but strict parental control is not the answer to that.

It depends I suppose. Perhaps they’ve had bad experiences in the past and are working hard to make sure that never happens again.
I can’t speak for them because I don’t know everything. But I can defend what I see and disapprove what I don’t like.
But this is just the way things are going and as much as I disapprove of certain things, I can’t do a darned thing about it now. What I see isn’t too bad…but what I hear…eh

He can’t really send you away. I don’t think he would.

No, I don’t believe so either.

 

[Galnextdoor]

Hi,
I’ve been reading the posts between Cheveliar and you. I think that you are approaching this from the wrong angle. You are over analyzing everything from sources and not getting much personal information from the girl.

You may think you could be a good match, but unless you have personal conversations expressing what she thinks about anything, you really don’t know her. If you are constantly in the hearing distance of one of her family members, she may feel she can’t express her own viewpoints. Her father may approve of you, but is she being nice to you to please her father? Do you know if she is deep down interested in you as more than a friend? Has she flirted with you? Does her face light up when she sees you? Has she personally given you any indication that she would entertain a courtship i.e. sitting closer to you than she would her brother, brushing her arm against yours, swinging her hair around in your presence, laughing a lot, choosing to be close to you when any opportunity presents itself. If she needs a helping hand when you are nearby, does she turn specifically to you for that helping hand?

Have you engaged her in conversations about what you would like to do with your life? Has she felt free to express her hopes and dreams for the future?

Communication is the most important thing in a relationship. If neither of you have been able to communicate freely, you really have no idea who she is. I would not say anything about love to anyone, father or daughter, until you get permission to date her.

It’s only when you have actual permission to be alone with her, that you will have any idea who she is. You may hear this or that from “sources”, but that is their perception of who she is. It sounds to me as if she may not even have had a chance to try things to find out what she likes and dislikes. If you come on too strong (be too singleminded about marriage at the beginning of the dating process) she may run.

If he’s not letting you date her, I assume she’s not allowed to date anyone else. She may want to spread her wings a little when she is finally allowed to date. She could end up going overboard and becoming a totally different person than the one you perceive now.

Get dad’s permission to date her, then decide if what your feeling is true love or something you are projecting on her. You may be projecting qualities that you think she has, but really don’t exist.

Lighten up Being goal oriented is a good thing, but it doesn’t always work in relationships Good luck.

 

[Belgarion]

Hi,
I’ve been reading the posts between Cheveliar and you. I think that you are approaching this from the wrong angle. You are over analyzing everything from sources and not getting much personal information from the girl.

I’d disagree…Sure I don’t get much from the girl, but really I suppose its my fault for not asking out.
My sources are reliable…Trust me…I don’t tell you guys everything because I want to protect not only the anonymity of the young woman, but of my sources as well.

You may think you could be a good match, but unless you have personal conversations expressing what she thinks about anything, you really don’t know her. If you are constantly in the hearing distance of one of her family members, she may feel she can’t express her own viewpoints.

You haven’t read the whole thread I take it. I talk to her all the time. She’s open about a lot of things with me…Just not emotional stuff. I know her rather well. The things I hear from her family members etc are things that I’ve noticed myself, but mostly its just details on their rules.

Her father may approve of you, but is she being nice to you to please her father?

No

Do you know if she is deep down interested in you as more than a friend?

Yes

Has she flirted with you?

Yes
Our conversations are…enjoyable in that way. She’ll tease me occasionally, and give me a hard time about some things. But as I’ve said before, we can just talk…while playing air hockey! No one tries to win! We just tap it gently back and forth while visiting with each other.

Does her face light up when she sees you?

Yes. That’s not me imagining it, that’s coming from people who spend more time with her…Apparently she talks about me a lot, too.

Has she personally given you any indication that she would entertain a courtship i.e. sitting closer to you than she would her brother, brushing her arm against yours, swinging her hair around in your presence, laughing a lot, choosing to be close to you when any opportunity presents itself. If she needs a helping hand when you are nearby, does she turn specifically to you for that helping hand?

I don’t think she brushes her arm against mine… but we stand and sit together all the time. And she constantly flips her hair to hide that she’s looking for me. We both laugh quite a lot around each other. I think that she doesn’t often turn to me for help, or take EVERY opportunity to be near me is just because the either isn’t that way (more independent) or she is respecting her father’s wishes by keeping everything low-key. I’m guessing the latter.

Have you engaged her in conversations about what you would like to do with your life? Has she felt free to express her hopes and dreams for the future?

Actually…yeah…Though I want o have more of those.

Communication is the most important thing in a relationship. If neither of you have been able to communicate freely, you really have no idea who she is. I would not say anything about love to anyone, father or daughter, until you get permission to date her.

sigh
Of course I’ve been able to communicate with her. Just not on an emotional level. THAT’S what bugs me. According to my anonymous source, that’s just how the family is. They don’t let people in really. Of course, that’s something that needs to be worked on, but I can tell it won’t cause that much of an issue. She doesn’t do very good job of hiding her emotions around me

It’s only when you have actual permission to be alone with her, that you will have any idea who she is. You may hear this or that from “sources”, but that is their perception of who she is. It sounds to me as if she may not even have had a chance to try things to find out what she likes and dislikes. If you come on too strong (be too singleminded about marriage at the beginning of the dating process) she may run.

The whole purpose of courtship is to discern your vocation with the one you’re courting. Do you want to marry him/her? Courtship has a purpose, and that is marriage. She knows this as well.
But its true that I won’t be able to know everything about her until I get time alone with her. I have been assured that alone time won’t be problematic.
My sources know her quite well, let’s leave it at that. But I know her, too. Listen, I’m not an idiot. I’ve been through too much heartache to make stupid mistakes again. I know what I know.

If he’s not letting you date her, I assume she’s not allowed to date anyone else. She may want to spread her wings a little when she is finally allowed to date. She could end up going overboard and becoming a totally different person than the one you perceive now.

You’re looking at this the wrong way. She doesn’t have a set age for dating. It won’t even be dating. Yes, its old-fashioned, but so am I.

Get dad’s permission to date her, then decide if what your feeling is true love or something you are projecting on her. You may be projecting qualities that you think she has, but really don’t exist.

I’ve projected before. Ever since I did, I realized it and resolved to never do it again.
But yes, I need his permission and I will get to know her better THEN decide if its true love or not.

Lighten up Being goal oriented is a good thing, but it doesn’t always work in relationships Good luck.

Thanks
But I’ve got to have standards and goals. It is my goal to be ready to court and its my goal to get to know her better. Being goal-oriented isn’t bad. I’m not a robot, for crying out loud. But I have to have a good idea of where things are going.

 

[chevalier]

in the same way, not everyone confesses their sins to Jesus would that make the Sacrament of Reconciliation invalid?

The analogy is flawed. The fact Tobias had a pre-chosen spouse doesn’t mean that all other people also do. Not having a pre-chosen spouse is different from having one but choosing a different person, in which case your analogy would work.

As for the “No courting until you’re ready for marriage” its kind of ridiculous, but my source also mentioned something about being within a year of being ready to be married is…acceptable?

You won’t marry within less than a year since you start anyway, so the practical difference isn’t so big. I suppose it concerns mostly factors like graduation, wealth etc. No one’s talking about mental readiness.

 

[Belgarion]

The analogy is flawed. The fact Tobias had a pre-chosen spouse doesn’t mean that all other people also do. Not having a pre-chosen spouse is different from having one but choosing a different person, in which case your analogy would work.

eh, I knew it wasn’t a perfect analogy.

But there you go again with the “Pre-chosen” term! God is outside of space and time. Its never a “pre-choice”! He knows what we want and guides us to who we’re meant to be with. Read courtship books! They actually have lots of passages from the bible that support this. I’m too lazy to get up and find them…LOL!

You won’t marry within less than a year since you start anyway, so the practical difference isn’t so big. I suppose it concerns mostly factors like graduation, wealth etc. No one’s talking about mental readiness.

Well, mental readiness may be an issue. Who knows? I haven’t been able to talk to the dad yet. (Their family has been going through a lot lately)
But yeah, a year sounds OK. But I’ve heard some bad things about short courtships…dang it! There I go again! I won’t speculate about the rules until I’ve talked to her dad!

Geez, chevalier…That was a short post

 

[Nickkname]

Listen to the Holy Spirit. He is the Lord, and the Lord is love itself. Love will tell you when to act; just be sure to be docile to His inspirations.

 

[Belgarion]

Listen to the Holy Spirit. He is the Lord, and the Lord is love itself. Love will tell you when to act; just be sure to be docile to His inspirations.

One of the most wonderful and inspiring moments was when I was praying before the Blessed Sacrament. I was praying for help in this particular situation and I received quite an answer. Images flashed in my mind (I was worried that it was my own mind playing trick on me, but it happened multiple times. And after I described it to my mother, she told me to trust it)
It was strange, I saw this particular young lady kneeling next to me wearing a wedding dress…it freaked me out. My jaw dropped open for a moment!
So I humored myself. I prayed some more and asked God how I could get to that. Another image came, and it was of me asking the young woman to go into the Adoration Chapel.

Ok…So I actually eventually did it. And the young woman seemed rather excited about it! I felt rather good praying with her (and her sisters )
I think I’m supposed to do that more often, too.
It may help with all this.

 

[chevalier]

eh, I knew it wasn’t a perfect analogy.

But there you go again with the “Pre-chosen” term! God is outside of space and time. Its never a “pre-choice”!

It is pre-choice from our point of view. Chosen before our birth. Chosen before we are created. This is preselection.

He knows what we want and guides us to who we’re meant to be with.

What we want and what we are meant to are two different things.

Read courtship books! They actually have lots of passages from the bible that support this.

Almost anything which isn’t a direct contradiction of Christian theology can be supported by a clever choice of quotations and a good deal of explaining.

I’m too lazy to get up and find them…LOL!

I won’t be too lazy to complain when you present those.

Well, mental readiness may be an issue. Who knows? I haven’t been able to talk to the dad yet. (Their family has been going through a lot lately)
But yeah, a year sounds OK. But I’ve heard some bad things about short courtships…dang it! There I go again! I won’t speculate about the rules until I’ve talked to her dad!

Life is not in books o’ rules. We do not enact scenarios from the rules the way an actor enacts the script.

Geez, chevalier…That was a short post

Not everything needs two paragraphs of explanation for clarity.

Be careful with those images of that girl in the wedding dress. Could be an inspiration from above, could be wishful thinking, could be an overworked brain. In my cases, I go with overworked brain. This is not to say you shouldn’t pray or go to adoration, though.

 

[Belgarion]

It is pre-choice from our point of view. Chosen before our birth. Chosen before we are created. This is preselection.

Aye perhaps, but not predestination. We have control, but ultimately he knows what we will choose.

What we want and what we are meant to are two different things.

Depends on what’ you’re talking about.

Almost anything which isn’t a direct contradiction of Christian theology can be supported by a clever choice of quotations and a good deal of explaining.

And a priest would do this, why?
These are Catholic courtship books, its not like they’re ridiculous ideas. christian courtship in an oversexed world by T.G. Morrow and The ABC’s of finding a good wife by Steven Wood. Read them.

I won’t be too lazy to complain when you present those.

I wouldn’t expect you to be!

Life is not in books o’ rules. We do not enact scenarios from the rules the way an actor enacts the script.

No, but we heed the advice of those who have more experience than us. Doesn’t God command that we listen to those wiser than us?
Also, its a matter of respect. I follow rules because its the right thing to do. And I just heard again today that her father has a lot of respect for me because of my attitude towards rules.

Not everything needs two paragraphs of explanation for clarity.

Well, usually we go back and forth a few times…lol

Be careful with those images of that girl in the wedding dress. Could be an inspiration from above, could be wishful thinking, could be an overworked brain. In my cases, I go with overworked brain. This is not to say you shouldn’t pray or go to adoration, though.

Let me tell you something though…I was REALLY skeptical about that. I told my mom what I saw and I just wrote it off. She suggested that I act on it. What’s the worst that can happen? I’m going into the Adoration Chapel! I think it actually helped.

However, its not the first time that such a random thing came into my mind. The other one was an incredibly vivid dream that had the same message.

I am still very careful about that stuff though.

 

[chevalier]

Aye perhaps, but not predestination. We have control, but ultimately he knows what we will choose.

The fact that He knows what we will choose doesn’t mean the choice was made by Him. What you are talking about is a choice made by Him and that is not the same as our own choice known to Him before it is known to us. He also knows of our choices which are against His will before we make them.

Depends on what’ you’re talking about.

Nope. Just because we want something doesn’t mean it’s good for us. Just because something is on our list, it doesn’t mean it’s on His list, either.

And a priest would do this, why?

Because he sincerely believed in it?

No, but we heed the advice of those who have more experience than us. Doesn’t God command that we listen to those wiser than us?

Of course. But my point was different: we live, we don’t enact life. We “court” to marry and have a Christian marriage, not to enact a set of courting rules.

Well, usually we go back and forth a few times…lol

There’s always that danger if one or both of the talkers are firmly attached to a position. Or simply if they are tired or a little distracted.

 

[Pro-Life_Teen]

Have you talked to her dad, or to her, yet? You talk about her quite often, it feels like you’re stalling a little. Y’all are 19, yeah? That’s not early to begin courtship- 2 or 3 years, minimum 6 month engagement for Pre-Cana and such. Possibly a bit longer, depending on if either is in college and would want to wait until school’s done.

As for pre-destined spouses… He knows what will happen, He knows whether we’ll be in Heaven or Hell as well. But that doesn’t mean our life on earth is meaningless or without control. Our spouses may be brought to us [the statistics that are involved in there being a person we can spend 50+ years with, who is in our age range, opposite gender, has similar tastes, lives in a certain place in the world, and love us as we love them-- that’s a mini miracle right there] but also [to slightly contradict what I just said] we can learn to love anyone in time with patience and prayer.

And while the thought of “the one” is romantic and something I like to sorta-believe, looking at it technically- there isn’t just one. There are probably a handful of people a person can marry and be happy with. Widow(er)s wouldn’t remarry otherwise.

 

[jman507]

I’m with Galnextdoor, I think you are way over analyzing things. Neither courtship, nor dating comes with only one way to do things. Even if you have a rigidly structured courtship procedure, the characters involved can really change things up.

As far as the the girl who you are courting, it is hard to say. By not opening up, she may be playing hard to get. Normally I don’t think most girls here would be playing that hard to get, but when you get into specific people it’s hard to tell. She may just be a hard-shell to crack. Which can be good and bad, it may be impossible for you, but on the other hand if she does let herself open up to you, you’ve probably got someone who is very loyal. On the other hand, she may not open to you emotionally, because she really doesn’t want too.

She may be playing games with you, trying to make you prove yourself; you should be trying a few of your own to try to feel her out. As with the thread title, I’m guessing if she really isn’t opening up herself emotionally to you, then I don’t think it’d be a wise move to tell her that you love her. This I think is where the games come in, you ought to try to make some small romantic gestures, such as simple gifts and the such, and see how she reacts. You maybe also want to show her some of your emotions yourself; be a little moody, tell her when you are upset. No need to go overboard with it, just a little at a time and see what she does.

Maybe you two should go out to coffee or get a quick lunch alone. I’m guessing if your both reserved as you indicate, chances are she’s not going to think, “well in this twenty minutes of alone time, let’s go have sex.” Nor would I think you would go along with that. The most likely scenario would be you to give a short kiss. If you then that it’ll be too much temptation act from that.

Even if she is playing hard to get, she does need to clue you in to proceed. If anything, make sure she knows that you too are busy, and cannot wait forever. Also on your part, you ought not allow the formalism of your courtship proceedings allow you to procrastinate from the actual risks of having a relationship.

Certainly you’ve set yourself up for a certain song and dance with her. You take your step, she takes her step. The thing though with dance is that, the proper steps at the proper time is important, but for it to really have a heart, the people dancing, need to mean it. Don’t confuse the medium with the message. Relationships are full of perils. When do something to say, I love you, sometimes you don’t get loved back. Sometimes you do get loved backed. But if you never try you will not receive it back. Near as important is how you go about it. It is not enough to just do it, but you need to try to figure when you have your opening and what will at that time connect with the other. Remember if anything is worth doing, it is worth doing poorly. If you see a couple dancing gracefully, you ought to know that it didn’t come naturally. You miss all the awkward times. One may be out of rhythm, the other step on the other’s toes; but with time and growing awareness about how his or her partner will do and in what style. Then you see the two act as if both are one. But again acting as one, even after you’ve achieved it is easy to lose without constant care.

As I see it, she isn’t ready yet to open up. Do what you what little things you can do, even if it is done poorly to try to get that opening. Allow your courtship rules to give what you do that medium, but do not forget this is about trying to see if she is right to have a relationship with that could end in marriage. Given that she isn’t that open right now, let the past be the past, and the future be the future. Right now, when you are with her do not think of marriage, but just be present with her. Let her know you want to know who she is, and that you want to help her become the person she ought to be. Don’t fall in love with your ideal of her, but just her. Your timing may be off, and you may step on her toes, but if you are ever to dance well, you have to go though this practice.

 

[chevalier]

Please don’t think that I’m trying to sum up a long and well-composed post in a single line, but how do you know that she’s playing games if the main actor is the father and it’s not even certain if she knows anything? If anything, he would be playing his own game, not hers.

 

[jman507]

Please don’t think that I’m trying to sum up a long and well-composed post in a single line, but how do you know that she’s playing games if the main actor is the father and it’s not even certain if she knows anything? If anything, he would be playing his own game, not hers.

It really doesn’t matter, if you are not certain if she is playing games or not. It only really matters once one can conclude she is not interested. Even if the father at this point in time is the main actor, that she is not too playing her own gambit. As a matter, he could just be acting as her hand. In the end, everyone who is a concerned participant is playing games, or so to say, is in on the dance too.

As to why I say it doesn’t matter, there are only two real conclusions to the whole thing: either to be married to her or not to be. No matter what, he will probably have to win over both the family and as well as her. Assume both are playing their own games, and trying to pass them both. All along, one needs to constantly reassess the situation, to see how best to proceed, that is until it shows itself to be a dead end. In the end, she will only has one father, so it’s best to court him too, if he wants to be married to her.

Really though, this gets to be a bit too sterile when talking like this. Everyone plays games, even if it is just saying “I love you,” and expecting a reciprocated response. The real question may be, will you leave me if … happens. One can get real cynical real quick if one thinks of it as just trying to win the game; one really needs to spend the time getting to know the other person.

That goes for the father and the rest of the family too. You don’t have to read too many threads on this sub forum to realize, adult parents still care about their adult children. It can go a long way to tell a parent; I will care for your child, but I’ll respect your relationship too. We don’t need to be dependent on nor controlled by you; but you are still important to us.

 

[chevalier]

Makes sense. I was thinking in terms of doing her justice. Can’t say she’s done him anything wrong. Mostly I think the father is dictating the terms and indeed you could say everyone’s dancing his dance, but he doesn’t strike me as that kind of person. Arbitrary rules? Sure. Intrigue? Not really.

 

[Belgarion]

I have a few things to answer here.

Pro-Life_Teen:

And while the thought of “the one” is romantic and something I like to sorta-believe, looking at it technically- there isn’t just one. There are probably a handful of people a person can marry and be happy with. Widow(er)s wouldn’t remarry otherwise.

Ah, but what if you met both at the same time? Which one would you marry first? The whole Prince Henry from “Ever After” question. He asked Leonardo da Vinci the same type of thing.

jman507:

As far as the the girl who you are courting, it is hard to say. By not opening up, she may be playing hard to get. Normally I don’t think most girls here would be playing that hard to get, but when you get into specific people it’s hard to tell. She may just be a hard-shell to crack. Which can be good and bad, it may be impossible for you, but on the other hand if she does let herself open up to you, you’ve probably got someone who is very loyal. On the other hand, she may not open to you emotionally, because she really doesn’t want too.

The thing is, I’m not courting her yet. If I WERE courting her, and I was still having trouble getting her to open up, THEN I’d be worried. But since I’m not, its still bothersome, but not quite as worrisome. There are things I wouldn’t tell any of my friends of family, but I might tell my significant other.

jman507:

She may be playing games with you, trying to make you prove yourself; you should be trying a few of your own to try to feel her out. As with the thread title, I’m guessing if she really isn’t opening up herself emotionally to you, then I don’t think it’d be a wise move to tell her that you love her. This I think is where the games come in, you ought to try to make some small romantic gestures, such as simple gifts and the such, and see how she reacts. You maybe also want to show her some of your emotions yourself; be a little moody, tell her when you are upset. No need to go overboard with it, just a little at a time and see what she does.

I have also been trying to open up to HER. That way she may be more inclined to open up to me. Also, she isn’t really the type to play games.

However, I STILL haven’t talked to her dad again. So I’m not going to presume anything at all until I talk to him. The dad doesn’t play game either though…he was very concerned with my feelings when I first talked to him. Playing games would not be helpful in this situation. So its unlikely that any of them are playing games.