When do you admit that you love someone?

[whatevergirl]

I feel sorry for this girl you’re interested in, Belgarion. Obviously, we can all see, you are a great person, and her father, like many parents, keep their kids back from pursuing their own happiness and futures, because of their own selfish agendas. Not that he is selfish, but if she is nearing 20…what is he afraid is going to happen? He’s afraid she’s going to marry you or some other boy, and move on…and he wants her at home, so he can perhaps live vicariously through her, or control her, or have her tend to the house, but whatever his reasons, they seem to amount to his desire to hold her back from happiness and pursuing her own dreams, and relationships. I think if you were a different person, the result would be the same–a controlling father who can’t let his daughter go on with her life. I will pray for her in this situation, and you. It’s noble for you to wish to hang in there…that part is completely up to you. Just know, her dad isn’t overly cautious because it’s you…she’s not 15. He is being this way most likely, because he isn’t happy in his own life, and wants to prevent his kid from having a life of her own, filled with potential and happiness. Sad. I have a friend whose parents tried to sabotage her relationship with her ‘now’ husband…but, it was hard. Her mom was pretty controlling, and miserable, but has sought counseling, and is much better.

I don’t know her dad, of course, but there really is no valid reason to prevent one’s ADULT child from pursuing a relationship with a good person. None.

 

[LJN21]

I feel sorry for this girl you’re interested in, Belgarion. Obviously, we can all see, you are a great person, and her father, like many parents, keep their kids back from pursuing their own happiness and futures, because of their own selfish agendas. Not that he is selfish, but if she is nearing 20…what is he afraid is going to happen? He’s afraid she’s going to marry you or some other boy, and move on…and he wants her at home, so he can perhaps live vicariously through her, or control her, or have her tend to the house, but whatever his reasons, they seem to amount to his desire to hold her back from happiness and pursuing her own dreams, and relationships. I think if you were a different person, the result would be the same–a controlling father who can’t let his daughter go on with her life. I will pray for her in this situation, and you. It’s noble for you to wish to hang in there…that part is completely up to you. Just know, her dad isn’t overly cautious because it’s you…she’s not 15. He is being this way most likely, because he isn’t happy in his own life, and wants to prevent his kid from having a life of her own, filled with potential and happiness. Sad. I have a friend whose parents tried to sabotage her relationship with her ‘now’ husband…but, it was hard. Her mom was pretty controlling, and miserable, but has sought counseling, and is much better.

I don’t know her dad, of course, but there really is no valid reason to prevent one’s ADULT child from pursuing a relationship with a good person. None.

I agree with that.

At 18ish I would (and think I did) recommend just going along with her fathers wishes because she was still living under his roof and it was a little on the young side to actually get married. Nearing 20 and the length of time this has gone on it well past reasonable. Cut him how as much as possible and let her tell you what she wants.

 

[Consecrated]

Hey there! you’ve gotten a lot of empathy (mine included! ) and advice, and so I’ll keep this short as I really can’t add much to what’s already been said…
But I think you owe it to your girl to talk to HER about coming over to visit her. You will be doing HER a disservice if you let her father tell you she doesn’t want you, and leave it at that. I don’t think that’s your ultimate intention, but I just wanted to make sure that you know that if you DO take her father’s word for it, you are really being disloyal to the lady herself. and I know that’s the OPPOSITE of what you want. So pick the best time (SOON, for your sake as well as hers), be as respectful of the dad’s boundaries as you see fit but make it a point to ask the lady directly: “____, I would like to visit you at your house, maybe as more than friends. I mentioned this to your father, and he said you weren’t interested. I have to hear this from your mouth. If YOU tell me YOU are not interested in my (more than) friendship, THEN I will leave it at that.” If you give the girl a cold shoulder b/c of something her DAD told you, that’s just not right. If she refuses to talk to you about a relationship with you except through her father, then obviously that’s something that needs to change, rules or no rules. Not right now, but def. BEFORE you marry her.

Totally agree with the poster who said the most important thing in a serious relationship/marriage, is to be 100% on the same page with boundaries. Shoulder to shoulder is the only way to go on this. Not only will it keep your relationship with your future wife (whoever she may be) from splintering, it should also solidify a good relationship with the ILs. It’s hard, but it’s a win/win.

well, heheh that was supposed to be short…

 

[lenni]

so question now is - are you going to step up your game??
just even discuss it with her. the idea - find out what she wants to do.(dont make it awkward though, cause you both really like each other now, its dead obvious) but how do you even know what she wants to do if you havent asked her. Dont assume that she is her dad and she has the same opinions (that is what you have been doing for this past year). like another poster said - talk to her one on one and see where you want to go next.

 

[lenni]

Thanks

Well, its not the forward part that would be a problem. Since that is the purpose of courtship, even more so by their standards.
But I HAVE been hanging out with her as a friend. and after nearly two years, its become quite certain for me.

yes i know you mean well when you did say that but you have to put it into perspective. You are just at the friend level with his daughter and to randomly say to her dad - ‘i want to marry your daughter’ is actually quite big. and scary for a dad, because to him, it may mean, loosing another daughter. or she is tooo young to get married. if that helps clear up what i meant when i said - ‘forward’

 

[Jade_Tiger]

Dude…

This is like one of those Romeo-Juliet novels, complete with father you (reader) love to hate.

I thought that never happened in real life!

Praying for you!

 

[Belgarion]

I feel sorry for this girl you’re interested in, Belgarion. Obviously, we can all see, you are a great person, and her father, like many parents, keep their kids back from pursuing their own happiness and futures, because of their own selfish agendas. Not that he is selfish, but if she is nearing 20…what is he afraid is going to happen? He’s afraid she’s going to marry you or some other boy, and move on…and he wants her at home, so he can perhaps live vicariously through her, or control her, or have her tend to the house, but whatever his reasons, they seem to amount to his desire to hold her back from happiness and pursuing her own dreams, and relationships. I think if you were a different person, the result would be the same–a controlling father who can’t let his daughter go on with her life. I will pray for her in this situation, and you. It’s noble for you to wish to hang in there…that part is completely up to you. Just know, her dad isn’t overly cautious because it’s you…she’s not 15. He is being this way most likely, because he isn’t happy in his own life, and wants to prevent his kid from having a life of her own, filled with potential and happiness. Sad. I have a friend whose parents tried to sabotage her relationship with her ‘now’ husband…but, it was hard. Her mom was pretty controlling, and miserable, but has sought counseling, and is much better.

I don’t know her dad, of course, but there really is no valid reason to prevent one’s ADULT child from pursuing a relationship with a good person. None.

I understand and I agree. In fact, I wouldn’t be surprised if he was trying to live vicariously through her, and the rest of the siblings. However, the details of why I think that should remain private.
And I thank you for the compliments! Really, I’m undeserving!

LJN21:

At 18ish I would (and think I did) recommend just going along with her fathers wishes because she was still living under his roof and it was a little on the young side to actually get married. Nearing 20 and the length of time this has gone on it well past reasonable. Cut him how as much as possible and let her tell you what she wants.

well, she is still living under his roof, and will likely remain so until she is married. As I said before, there’s nothing wrong with that, my sister did the same thing. But she was given a little more freedom, I think

lenni:

so question now is - are you going to step up your game??
just even discuss it with her. the idea - find out what she wants to do.(dont make it awkward though, cause you both really like each other now, its dead obvious) but how do you even know what she wants to do if you havent asked her. Dont assume that she is her dad and she has the same opinions (that is what you have been doing for this past year). like another poster said - talk to her one on one and see where you want to go next.

Here’s the deal.
BECAUSE of these feelings we have for each other, and the family’s uber-traditional rules, we cannot even be alone with each other.
So, if I were to TRY to get her alone, it’d be bad. If I were to talk to her about this stuff, it’d be bad.
“Why?” you ask.
I’ll spin a tale of horror and mayhem.
The last one in the family to get married was the older brother.
One of the coolest and funniest guys I know.
Now, he and his now-wife started talking alone, over IM, etc. They got close, and his family started to notice. They didn’t think she was right for him, and decided that they shouldn’t be speaking to each other.
So they started leaving immediately after Mass, and choir practices to avoid any social interaction. The brother had no say in the matter. I believe they ceased interacting with her family, even though their families had been friends for YEARS.

So you know what? I am afraid they’ll try the same thing with me.
Yes, that’s right. Afraid.
That’s why I haven’t tried sending her a letter, or finding some way to talk to HER about this. Because I’m afraid they’ll try to take her away from me, and I won’t be prepared to do anything about it.
Fortunately for the brother, he moved out at that point and continued seeing the girl without famly permission or interference. I won’t underestimate her, but I don’t think the young woman I am interested in will do the same.

yes i know you mean well when you did say that but you have to put it into perspective. You are just at the friend level with his daughter and to randomly say to her dad - ‘i want to marry your daughter’ is actually quite big. and scary for a dad, because to him, it may mean, loosing another daughter. or she is tooo young to get married. if that helps clear up what i meant when i said - ‘forward’

Well I obviously didn’t come to him and say this the first time I talked to him about it!!!
I had gotten to know her for months, asked his permission to court her. He said wait, I waited for around a year and a half! Without anything at all from him! Just getting to know her better! And I did! So what I have learned about her has amazed me completely. More than I thought it would. Heck, more than I dreamt it would. This was serious for me. So I gave him a fair warning, and definitely not too soon.

Dude…

This is like one of those Romeo-Juliet novels, complete with father you (reader) love to hate.

I thought that never happened in real life!

Praying for you!

thank you for your prayers
…I didn’t know my drama was so entertaining…
One comment I’d like to add to that, though…I REALLY don’t want to kill myself…And I’d rather that she refrain from doing so as well… lol

 

[dakotagirl]

This has become quite the epic saga. Aw shucks, I will pray for you, too.

 

[chevalier]

Here’s the deal.
BECAUSE of these feelings we have for each other, and the family’s uber-traditional rules, we cannot even be alone with each other.

…]

Fortunately for the brother, he moved out at that point and continued seeing the girl without famly permission or interference. I won’t underestimate her, but I don’t think the young woman I am interested in will do the same.

That’s how the system works. She won’t do the same because she doesn’t know you enough. She doesn’t know you enough because she isn’t be allowed to see you. Going through that kind of system is better than mortal sin, but it’s comparable to never getting an Internet connection for fear of pornography.

I had gotten to know her for months, asked his permission to court her. He said wait, I waited for around a year and a half!

Waiting is pointless if it isn’t accompanied by a form of growing. If two people wait while discerning vocations or getting to know each other as friends, that’s one thing. If they wait because her father thinks later is better, that’s a different one. Fortunately, from your next paragraph it seems the time wasn’t just quarantine.

Without anything at all from him! Just getting to know her better! And I did! So what I have learned about her has amazed me completely. More than I thought it would. Heck, more than I dreamt it would. This was serious for me. So I gave him a fair warning, and definitely not too soon.

Perhaps it was just a little hot-headed then.

 

[Jade_Tiger]

Frog went a-courting, he did ride
Sword and pistol by his side

Does anyone know that old folk song?

Frog asks Miss Mouse (*not *her Uncle Rat) to marry him. She asks permission of said Uncle Rat, who, after asking some questions about Frog’s elegibility, gives them his blessing.

That is the traditional way. That father is not uber-traditional -he is a control freak.

 

[Belgarion]

This has become quite the epic saga. Aw shucks, I will pray for you, too.

Maybe I’ll write a book on it

chevalier:

That’s how the system works. She won’t do the same because she doesn’t know you enough. She doesn’t know you enough because she isn’t be allowed to see you. Going through that kind of system is better than mortal sin, but it’s comparable to never getting an Internet connection for fear of pornography.

So its somewhat paradoxal?..again…?
Well, to follow the internet analogy…Why don’t they just install a content control program? I mean, let us talk about this stuff, but keep an eye out.

Or just lighten up…For crying out loud.

Waiting is pointless if it isn’t accompanied by a form of growing. If two people wait while discerning vocations or getting to know each other as friends, that’s one thing. If they wait because her father thinks later is better, that’s a different one. Fortunately, from your next paragraph it seems the time wasn’t just quarantine.

Yeah, we spend quite a lot of time together…as friends of course, but since we are both interested in each other, it obviously has its purpose.
And the thing is, there IS growing going on here. As I said before, she’s visibly getting more comfortable around me. The things she says and does makes it obvious. Everyone had noticed.

Perhaps it was just a little hot-headed then.

Are you implying that I was emotional?
On the contrary, it was a logical action, done with a very clear head.
Jade Tiger:

Frog went a-courting, he did ride
Sword and pistol by his side

Does anyone know that old folk song?

Frog asks Miss Mouse (not her Uncle Rat) to marry him. She asks permission of said Uncle Rat, who, after asking some questions about Frog’s elegibility, gives them his blessing.

That is the traditional way. That father is not uber-traditional -he is a control freak.

Maybe.

but then I’m not financially ready to get married yet. So even by that standard, I’m sure I’d still fail!

AND, when this courting relationship starts, I’ll be able to go out by myself with her. Her dad actually confirmed this. Which is awesome. That’s not too controlling, really.

What’s controlling IMO is what he’s doing now with saying I shouldn’t talk to her about this stuff.
Weird.
I just would like to know what would happen if I talked to her…Would she get upset? Would he? What would he do?

If I knew these things, I’d be able to decide whether its worth the risk to just go for it or not.

 

[chevalier]

Maybe I’ll write a book on it

I suggest “How I Courted Her Father” as the title.

So its somewhat paradoxal?..again…?

Either that or a vicious circle. You can’t beome a nobleman without being rich. You can’t become rich without being a nobleman. This kind of thing.

Well, to follow the internet analogy…Why don’t they just install a content control program? I mean, let us talk about this stuff, but keep an eye out.

Yup. How much are people going to make others sacrifice to remove non-near occasions of sins? If you locked people in their houses and had every tenth person work as a volunteer morality cop, fornication rates would drop. But would you really want to do that?

Or just lighten up…For crying out loud.

Could be. Perpetual low mood could have such an effect. I can think almost like your girl’s father on some such days. He may have low levels of something in the body. Sleep, sugar, whatever, and it could make him a permanent wet blanket,

And the thing is, there IS growing going on here. As I said before, she’s visibly getting more comfortable around me. The things she says and does makes it obvious. Everyone had noticed.

Don’t set your hopes in absolute terms, though.

Are you implying that I was emotional?

Phenylethylamine more like.

On the contrary, it was a logical action, done with a very clear head.

Oh yes, especially a clear head. Actually, I don’t doubt that your brain functions were being accelarated at that moment.

AND, when this courting relationship starts, I’ll be able to go out by myself with her. Her dad actually confirmed this. Which is awesome. That’s not too controlling, really.

Sigh. Good lack with contractual enforcement.

What’s controlling IMO is what he’s doing now with saying I shouldn’t talk to her about this stuff.

That’s more usurpation than control.

I just would like to know what would happen if I talked to her…Would she get upset? Would he? What would he do?

He’s hardly predictable. Anything from merely letting you know you’ve hurt him to shutting his daughter off.

 

[Belgarion]

I suggest “How I Courted Her Father” as the title.

Oh no! That’s so brilliant that I’ll HAVE to do it!

Either that or a vicious circle. You can’t beome a nobleman without being rich. You can’t become rich without being a nobleman. This kind of thing.

Yeah, it sounds vicious alright.
But fear not, for he may step out of the way once I get some things moving here in my life.

Yup. How much are people going to make others sacrifice to remove non-near occasions of sins? If you locked people in their houses and had every tenth person work as a volunteer morality cop, fornication rates would drop. But would you really want to do that?

Maybe…lol
But you’re right, its overkill. I’m not asking to go sit in the back seat of my car or something. (Though why would I do that? My Mustang’s back seat is entirelly too small ) I’m just asking to be able to talk with her about some things. If I don’t, then I may just be wasting my time with this entire thing. (Though I know her well enough to doubt that)
There’s nothing morally wrong in what I’m asking.

Could be. Perpetual low mood could have such an effect. I can think almost like your girl’s father on some such days. He may have low levels of something in the body. Sleep, sugar, whatever, and it could make him a permanent wet blanket,

Well, they are big nutrition people. So I doubt that’s the case.
I know him rather well, and he’s got a great sense of humor and he’s a good friend of mine. In fact, as I’ve mentioned before, he was my friend before I was even interested in his daughter!
But he’s like a freaking Terminator when it comes to this stuff…I don’t like the way he does these things, and I’m tired of the way I’m led around.

Don’t set your hopes in absolute terms, though.

Well how’s this for absolute? “I KNOW SHE LIKES ME!!”


I could tell you the story if you’d like? Oh, wait, haven’t I already? I found out shortly before I talked to her dad the last time (When he told me I could go to their house for movies, NOT when he later told me that I couldn’t)

Phenylethylamine more like.

I wish I knew what that meant…Curse you and your expansive vocabulary! I’m an exceptional speller and I"ve got a good vocab…but come ON!

Oh yes, especially a clear head. Actually, I don’t doubt that your brain functions were being accelarated at that moment.

lol
It was a calm conversation, I was bit nervous…there may have been some acceleration lol

Sigh. Good lack with contractual enforcement.

You want me to get it in writing?

That’s more usurpation than control.

Well, either way its not cool.

He’s hardly predictable. Anything from merely letting you know you’ve hurt him to shutting his daughter off.

True. The latter is more likely though. Or so I’ve heard.

I can imagine a way to figure out what he’d do. Ask him

 

[Jade_Tiger]

Really bad advice, do not follow:

1. Elope
2. Defy the father

That is what I would do, so DON’T.

 

[chevalier]

Oh no! That’s so brilliant that I’ll HAVE to do it!

Ha! I want to write the preface.

Maybe…lol
But you’re right, its overkill. I’m not asking to go sit in the back seat of my car or something. (Though why would I do that? My Mustang’s back seat is entirelly too small ) I’m just asking to be able to talk with her about some things. If I don’t, then I may just be wasting my time with this entire thing. (Though I know her well enough to doubt that)
There’s nothing morally wrong in what I’m asking.

Of course not. But people have the saddening habit of always later saying, “we didn’t want to,” or, “we didn’t plan it,” or, “it sorta ended up that way.” This is why I’m not absolutely against arbitrary action. But there are limits at some point.

Perhaps the gentleman wants to keep his daughter a virgin at all costs. At the risk of eating grapeshot from our forum colleagues, I can tell you I would very much sympathise with him in that goal. But he can’t help her become a responsible adult by locking her up. Nor is it necessarily proper to shoo her into marriage with the first guy she seems to like, just so that the race is over. As much as I’m a fan of people marrying young.

Well, they are big nutrition people. So I doubt that’s the case.

They could mess something up. If you’re not quite a sapper you run a higher risk than someone who doesn’t touch bombs.

And I know people who get nearly depressed when there’s no sunshine. A lot of my own foul moods mysteriously disappear if I get something to eat or drink or remove the curtains or go out or get some sleep. These could be some factors making him tense.

I know him rather well, and he’s got a great sense of humor and he’s a good friend of mine. In fact, as I’ve mentioned before, he was my friend before I was even interested in his daughter!
But he’s like a freaking Terminator when it comes to this stuff…I don’t like the way he does these things, and I’m tired of the way I’m led around.

A daughter is a sensitive subject. You will notice when you have one.

Well how’s this for absolute? “I KNOW SHE LIKES ME!!”

For starters, “likes” is an ambiguous term and “I know” is subjective.

I could tell you the story if you’d like? Oh, wait, haven’t I already? I found out shortly before I talked to her dad the last time (When he told me I could go to their house for movies, NOT when he later told me that I couldn’t)

Not too clearly, but I remember. Just teasing you, anyway.

I wish I knew what that meant…Curse you and your expansive vocabulary! I’m an exceptional speller and I"ve got a good vocab…but come ON!

In plain words, stuff that gets into the blood of people in love. It’s the biochemical face of the inspiration and hyperness that is visible on the outside.

lol
It was a calm conversation, I was bit nervous…there may have been some acceleration lol

… And more of that stuff includes dopamine and norephetamine, which are natural counterparts of amphetamine. Means you get a bit high and your sensory and intellectual faculties get a second breath.

You want me to get it in writing?

You can get out of a written contract too.

Well, either way its not cool.

Yup.

True. The latter is more likely though. Or so I’ve heard.

Sigh. What some people do with their adult children is not quite in line with human rights, which are a perfectly valid part of the legal system. Unlawful imprisonment is no kidding and while no serious prosecutor would push that kind of charge, myself included if I were one, it’s not fine. Really.

I can imagine a way to figure out what he’d do. Ask him

You did ask him once and it didn’t work out. And you’d be letting him on on your plans and showing him that you are not above undermining him. Bad idea.

 

[Belgarion]

Ha! I want to write the preface.

Definitely.
LOL
Just make sure you mention the book was written by a raving lunatic!

Of course not. But people have the saddening habit of always later saying, “we didn’t want to,” or, “we didn’t plan it,” or, “it sorta ended up that way.” This is why I’m not absolutely against arbitrary action. But there are limits at some point.

Perhaps the gentleman wants to keep his daughter a virgin at all costs. At the risk of eating grapeshot from our forum colleagues, I can tell you I would very much sympathise with him in that goal. But he can’t help her become a responsible adult by locking her up. Nor is it necessarily proper to shoo her into marriage with the first guy she seems to like, just so that the race is over. As much as I’m a fan of people marrying young.

I actually won’t disagree with you on that.

My parents did a good job of keeping my sister a virgin until she was married. And she went out every weekend with her now-husband.
There is definitely a point in accomplishing this goal where you can severely affect social skills and social life in general.
She and I were actually talking about people skills today. And she said she had bad people skills. Of course, she said she improved them. I’ve been there, too. I used to be quite horrible at talking to people. But that was my own fault. Her situation may not be her fault though.

Anyways…yeah, I agree.

They could mess something up. If you’re not quite a sapper you run a higher risk than someone who doesn’t touch bombs.

And I know people who get nearly depressed when there’s no sunshine. A lot of my own foul moods mysteriously disappear if I get something to eat or drink or remove the curtains or go out or get some sleep. These could be some factors making him tense.

Well, who knows? lol

A daughter is a sensitive subject. You will notice when you have one.

I don’t doubt it. But he already HAS two married daughters…you’d think he’d do better with it by now…

For starters, “likes” is an ambiguous term and “I know” is subjective.

Ok now you’re just being funny!

Not too clearly, but I remember. Just teasing you, anyway.

I know, I know. I’m used to it by now
I’ll sum it up for anyone else reading…

A “little birdy” told me that she said it, flat out. “I like Ryan [my last name here]”
She added the last name. So I’m sure

In plain words, stuff that gets into the blood of people in love. It’s the biochemical face of the inspiration and hyperness that is visible on the outside.

Like when you eat chocolate?

… And more of that stuff includes dopamine and norephetamine, which are natural counterparts of amphetamine. Means you get a bit high and your sensory and intellectual faculties get a second breath.

You see, my mom’s a doctor…I feel ashamed for not knowing those technical terms…

You can get out of a written contract too.

I’ll get YOU to write it, then

Sigh. What some people do with their adult children is not quite in line with human rights, which are a perfectly valid part of the legal system. Unlawful imprisonment is no kidding and while no serious prosecutor would push that kind of charge, myself included if I were one, it’s not fine. Really.

No kidding…You don’t know the half of it, and I’ll bet I don’t either

You did ask him once and it didn’t work out. And you’d be letting him on on your plans and showing him that you are not above undermining him. Bad idea.

Yeah, probably
I like my plans to be evil AND secret
Jade Tiger:

Really bad advice, do not follow:

1. Elope
2. Defy the father

That is what I would do, so DON’T.

Yeah…Don’t worry…I won’t!

BTW, I thought I’d ask you guys for your opinion on something…I’ve been trying to figure it out.
Yes…I’m over thinking again…

But I was talking to her today (With her siblings at the same table, in the same conversation.) and she was being too quiet! She she says “Ask me something.”
Oh boy. I had to think about it.
But it started a little game that JUST us two were playing.
We would ask each other a question. We asked a few little questions…no big deal…
but then she asks me… “What are your favorite boys’ names?”
cool question, huh?
I don’t mind it…Not one bit.
But why ask? lol
So I told her. She seemed to like them. I in turn asked her what her favorite girls’ names were. She said she had a list, but could remember them all. Then she moved on to HER favorite boys names…
LOL
It was weird, but cool. Random, yet funny.

I wonder…WHERE DID THAT COME FROM?

 

[panoikei]

Wow! What a story. Romeo and Juliet, I agree. I had a friend in the Army that was crazy about “his girl”. He could only spend time with this particular girl when her sister or someone else was around. He drove me crazy in Germany about her. And when we both came stateside he was still moaping over her. He described her sister in a way that made me want to go see her, but I was getting ready for the seminary again. At least so I thought. Turns out I ended up meeting a Protestant woman still living at home with her very conservative parents, father an elder. He impressed me with his genuine commitment to his faith. Ultimately, one day her family’s proselytizing worked…that’s a story in itself. But I while trying to run from her knowing that our marriage couldn’t work I ran home for a weekend of convincing myself to dump her before it was too late. But too late had already come. I liturally heard a voice speak to me right after a warm peace came over me in a “disco”. It was like nobody else was there. There the voice said “you can marry her”. I said “but I’m going to be a priest”. I heard it a second time “you can marry her”. Then I said but she’s not even Catholic. The third time the voice said “it’s okay you can marry her”. Right at that moment I knew I was in love with her and had a very peaceful evening. I went a bought a ring the following week. I brought her home to meet mom and my grandmother. She turned out to be a very beautiful woman…strange that I didn’t seem to realize it at the time. But after we got married in her church we went on a honeymoon and got caught in traffic so I started to get a hotel room in a hotel that I discovered was in the process of holding a beauty pageant. I knew that that wasn’t a good idea so I left and told her about it. We ended up staying at the Hyatt in down town Fort Worth. That was almost 20 years ago. Since then we’ve had 3 children and she and my oldest son converted to Catholciism, we had our marriage convalidated and had Father baptize the 2 little ones. I had already baptized my oldest son at our previous church. Strange story, but God brought me home and my family with me. My wife converted to Catholicism I think before me. She explained theological concepts that I had always had problems understanding and therefore rejected it 20 years ago.

My point is, keep your chin up. This may seem like the one for you, but it may not. I had a girl that I was crazy about too through high school. Ultimately her messed up family really messed them up. Her father was a deacon in the Church. The girls sister commited suicide a couple a years ago and the girl I used to think I loved married a real jerk and 2 years later divorced him and ended up marrying another guy. The mom is now divorced from her cheating husband, laicized now living in sin, and dying. The once Liturgical Minister mom now goes to a Penticostal church once in a while as she feels to substitute for Mass without even thinking it’s wrong. She used to be a nun. Talk about strange. Sometimes we want things that God doesn’t want for us. He has a strange way of changing things for us if we follow His will. My error of leaving the Church ended up being a good thing for me because of my background. I grew up in a very confused mixed religious family, divorced parents and both parents extremes in their own faiths. Confusing world. Don’t judge someone without at least walking a mile in their shoes and then be chariable after that. It’s impossible to know what is going on in people’s lives.

I just discovered some very serious things about my own wife that floored me and I’ve been bouncing off walls fighting my urges to go kills someone, at least pull his arms off before I remove his head. I grew up in a violent family situation and discovered that God did have a plan for me and her. He sent me to help her, but he also gave her to me to fill the hole in my life…family. I have a beautuful family now. I’m a very lucky man. She love’s me…ME…that just tickles me to death. She loves me. And I’m crazy about her and probably will always feel that way about her. However, she is my best friend now. Having a Christ centered marriage is what makes it work. Look beyond the perfect curves. Talk to mom. Make sure this is someone you want to be with the rest of your life. Remember, you marry into a family.

PAX

 

[chevalier]

Definitely.
LOL
Just make sure you mention the book was written by a raving lunatic!

“Don’t get me wrong. He was a fine guy and a fine companion. I mean, until we had to lock him up.” Yup, that’ll do.

I actually won’t disagree with you on that.

My parents did a good job of keeping my sister a virgin until she was married. And she went out every weekend with her now-husband.
There is definitely a point in accomplishing this goal where you can severely affect social skills and social life in general.
She and I were actually talking about people skills today. And she said she had bad people skills. Of course, she said she improved them. I’ve been there, too. I used to be quite horrible at talking to people. But that was my own fault. Her situation may not be her fault though.

I wasn’t born with mine, either.

Anyways…yeah, I agree.

Ok now you’re just being funny!

Or do you hope I am?

I know, I know. I’m used to it by now

Good.

A “little birdy” told me that she said it, flat out. “I like Ryan [my last name here]”
She added the last name. So I’m sure

Wow, someone in the new generation uses last names when talking about people.

Like when you eat chocolate?

Sort of. And dopamine is the “reward” hormone. Think serotonin but not quite.

You see, my mom’s a doctor…I feel ashamed for not knowing those technical terms…

You probably aren’t jaded enough. It’s not stuff that pops up every day.

I’ll get YOU to write it, then

Notwithstanding the foregoing, expiration of terms hereinafter stipulated enables the commencement of conduct described in clause 137565 forthwith…

But I was talking to her today (With her siblings at the same table, in the same conversation.) and she was being too quiet! She she says “Ask me something.”

Oh boy. I had to think about it.
But it started a little game that JUST us two were playing.
We would ask each other a question. We asked a few little questions…no big deal…
but then she asks me… “What are your favorite boys’ names?”
cool question, huh?

Tam tam tam tam, taramtam… taramtamtam… /me whistles Mendelssohn. Sorry, you’re cooked.

It was weird, but cool. Random, yet funny.

I wonder…WHERE DID THAT COME FROM?

Lol. Well, one day I’m talking to a cute (bright, sunny, angel-kinda cute, you get the idea) coworker in the law firm, it somehow touches on height or looking taller or whatever, she says, “I’ll always be small next to you,” and the exact syntax was with “small” at the end of the sentece, so guess how it sounded. I barely resisted chuckling and probably not quite, after all. Then a moment later she says, “well, I’m not getting any younger as years are passing,” and after that, “for that matter, you aren’t either.” I don’t know how I controlled the jaw drop.

Whatever she was thinking about.

 

[Belgarion]

“Don’t get me wrong. He was a fine guy and a fine companion. I mean, until we had to lock him up.” Yup, that’ll do.

I wasn’t born with mine, either.

Anyways…yeah, I agree.

No one really is…lol
But yeah, its at least good that she and I both are getting rather good at it.

Or do you hope I am?

HAHA…eh he he…he…Nervous laughter

Wow, someone in the new generation uses last names when talking about people.

Yeah, well the “little birdy” may have needed the specification…

Sort of. And dopamine is the “reward” hormone. Think serotonin but not quite.

You probably aren’t jaded enough. It’s not stuff that pops up every day.

I need to borrow one of my mom’s books… lol
Though my older sister probably knows about this stuff…She runs a medical transcription service. She had to learn all the fancy terminology.
Notwithstanding the foregoing, expiration of terms hereinafter stipulated enables the commencement of conduct described in clause 137565 forthwith…

Good golly…I can imagine showing him something like that

Tam tam tam tam, taramtam… taramtamtam… /me whistles Mendelssohn. Sorry, you’re cooked.

…What’s THAT supposed to mean???

Lol. Well, one day I’m talking to a cute (bright, sunny, angel-kinda cute, you get the idea) coworker in the law firm, it somehow touches on height or looking taller or whatever, she says, “I’ll always be small next to you,” and the exact syntax was with “small” at the end of the sentece, so guess how it sounded. I barely resisted chuckling and probably not quite, after all. Then a moment later she says, “well, I’m not getting any younger as years are passing,” and after that, “for that matter, you aren’t either.” I don’t know how I controlled the jaw drop.

Whatever she was thinking about.

Wow…Sounds like she had SOMETHING on her mind…

…So basically what you’re saying is that you have no clue about these kinds of things either?..Wow…The feminine mind is truly enigmatic…We need some more women in here to help…

panoikei:

Huge post

Well, I see what you mean. And all that stuff is crazy…I think for the most part, all relationships and events leading up to them are insane and crazy…I mean, for my its just proof that God exists.

I know that this may or may not be IT for me. But I’m hoping, and not giving up because of discouragement.
Thanks for the post, its probably took you forever!

BTW, more Romeo and Juliet rcomparisons? Really?
Maybe I ought to read the play or something…

 

[chevalier]

No one really is…lol
But yeah, its at least good that she and I both are getting rather good at it.

Some people have it natural, others have to learn. They can learn well, but sometimes it’s like with a foreign language: you can speak better than natives but it still isn’t your natural language no matter how much you’ve learnt. It’s a bit like counting in the binary or hexxadecimal. You can do it, at some point even in memory, but it’s not as “native” to you as the decimal system.

HAHA…eh he he…he…Nervous laughter

Siiiiister, gonna need a restraining agent!

Yeah, well the “little birdy” may have needed the specification…

Possible, though referring to people by first name and last name if one isn’t talking about a celebrity or some such. Just a random observation.

Good golly…I can imagine showing him something like that

He may show you canon 1095.

…What’s THAT supposed to mean???

She’s got ya. You’re in her web now. Sorry. Was nice talking to ya.

Wow…Sounds like she had SOMETHING on her mind…

Probably wasn’t an accident. But I didn’t notice a consistent trend.

…So basically what you’re saying is that you have no clue about these kinds of things either?..Wow…The feminine mind is truly enigmatic…We need some more women in here to help…

As long as I hear the voice and see the body language, I get it. Sometimes better than the speaker and I end up taking subconscious reactions for something bigger, but the reality is that it’s difficult to tell if someone “wants to” or “would like to but doesn’t want to” or “would like to but doesn’t realise”. I can spot if a woman is interested, but it’s more difficult to figure out if she wants to act on it in some cases. It’s more difficult when I’m more emotionally invested, or the person has a particular communication style (e.g. a foreigner) or I only see a verbal message but no voice or body language. Ladies are priceless aid in such cases.

Well, I see what you mean. And all that stuff is crazy…I think for the most part, all relationships and events leading up to them are insane and crazy…I mean, for my its just proof that God exists.

On the technical level, an infatuation is close to a psychosis, according to some people.

BTW, more Romeo and Juliet rcomparisons? Really?
Maybe I ought to read the play or something…

Rubs forehead Sighs