L
Lion_of_Narnia
Guest
When Jesus told Simon Bar-Jonah "you are Peter (Kephas, great rock) and upon this rock I will build my Church
So, “Other”
So, “Other”
- Status
J
jediliz
Guest
When Jesus said unto Peter “You are rock and upon this rock I will build my church”.
C
cubalibre
Guest
Why would anyone argue for the Council of Trent? Someone please explain. I’m sure if it was an option someone would select the 2nd Vatican Council!
C
Contarini
Guest
Because that is when the Roman Communion officially rejected Protestantism and made dogma a number of things that had not previously been dogma (particularly the equality of Scripture and Tradition and the role of merit in salvation), and thus became one among several competing churches within Western Christendom.
Edwin
Z
Zooey
Guest
AtWow! A non-catholic that agrees with Peter and the rock verse. I never thought I’d see that.
I agree, btw.
the risk of making thomasf http://bestsmileys.com/fainting/1.gif , there are now 2 of us non-Catholics agreeing…I think its obvious…http://bestsmileys.com/clueless/4.gif…
Now, my best friend & most of my family would say something entirely different.http://bestsmileys.com/clueless/4.gif
U
urbana
Guest
I could be convinced of any date between the Annunciation and Pentecost, inclusive, somewhat dependent upon which definition of the Church one wished to use.
One logical point though would be on Easter.
The Church is comprised of the Church Militant, the Church Triumphant, and the Church Suffering. On Easter, Jesus opened the gates of heaven, thus the beginning of the Church Triumphant. Thus, one could say that the Catholic Church began to exist in its entirety on Easter.
One logical point though would be on Easter.
The Church is comprised of the Church Militant, the Church Triumphant, and the Church Suffering. On Easter, Jesus opened the gates of heaven, thus the beginning of the Church Triumphant. Thus, one could say that the Catholic Church began to exist in its entirety on Easter.
J
jmcrae
Guest
I think it began when God promised Eve that her offspring would crush the head of Satan with her heel - which began to be fulfilled when Mary said, “Be it done unto me according to Thy word,” and was finished when Christ gave up His life on the Cross for us, rose from the dead, and ascended into Heaven.
C
Charlie_Zeaiter
Guest
Yep! That’s right.
Eve, the bride of Adam, was born from his ribs.
The Church, the bride of Christ, was born from His ribs.
More info:
home.inreach.com/bstanley/bride.htm
G
GregoryPalamas
Guest
Start a thread if you wish on Trent. It would be fun to debate you on both these points, especially on the “merit” argument. It would be more fun if you were open to really studying it, but I’d take what I could get.
CDL
E
estesbob
Guest
I would love to debate him on that in the proper forum… You would think from reading his post that the Catholic Chruch were the ones leaving the Church not the other way around. Of curse the Anglican Church was not founded on any such high moral objections-it was founded on Henry VIIIs lust.
C
Contarini
Guest
Hey, I responded the way I did because of the way GP posed the original question. I do not think the Roman Communion left the true Church. I am much more certain that you are part of the true Church than I am that we are. But I think we both are.
Anglicanism was not founded on Henry VIII’s lust. That’s a simplistic and insulting way of putting it. Anglicanism took shape over a long period of time–the Church of England in Henry VIII’s day bore little resemblance to the Anglicanism of, say, 1662.
Edwin
C
Contarini
Guest
I’m not sure why you think I’m not, if you have followed my posts in general. I’m very unsure as to whether it can be said that Trent was wrong–I have a problem with a few of the formulations, but I don’t think it’s some big church-dividing issue. However, what can be said for sure is that Trent narrowed the options for those in the Roman Communion–it was a Council that contributed to the division of the Western Church (rightly or wrongly).
I would be unwilling to defend any thesis saying that Trent was heretical, but I would certainly be willing to argue that some of the formulations (both regarding merit and regarding tradition) are less than felicitous and certainly not necessary to orthodoxy.
Edwin
T
Tomster
Guest
Exactly !
M
Mannyfit75
Guest
Notice the typology. In the OT, Eve came out of Adam’s rib.
In the NT, the Bride of Christ came out of the pierce side of Jesus, the Church.
So the Catholic Church was born on the crucifixion of the Lord. It truly manifested into the Church we see today during Penecost, 40 days after the Resurrection.
T
Tomster
Guest
Start a thread please !
G
GregoryPalamas
Guest
Edwin,
I appreciate that. You may well be right that Trent felt pushed into defining more than what was necessary. I think that may be true in many ways. Yet Trent’s formula on Justification makes a good deal of sense. It really does flow from Athanasius’ insight that we need the New Birth prior to knowing how to repent of our sins. Justification is first an act of grace and then it is our loving and humble response. Each act of grace followed by our faithful response justifies us in the eyes of God, i.e., we become ever more “right with God” and reflect His image more and more.
The New birth through baptism, puts us back to where Adam and Eve were before the fall and sets us back on their trajectory toward union with God.
It makes excellent sense.
CDL
E
estesbob
Guest
Henry the VIII founded the Anglican church becuase he coveted Ann Boylen. Now that may sound simplistic but it is the absolute truth. The fact that the Anglican church allegedly changed later on does not undo this simple fact.
K
Kurt_G
Guest
Lots of good answers, some I hadn’t considered before.
I voted “Other” and didn’t see mine below, so here goes…
John 20:21 and following:
"And Jesus breathed on them and said “Receive the Holy Spirit. Whose sins you forgive they are forgiven them, and whose sins you retain they are retained…”
In other places Jesus used spittle, mud, etc. for many miracles, but this is the only time Jesus breathed on anyone… it has to mean something special… Especially since it reminds us of God “breathing” the Breath of Life into Adam, in Gen 2:7.
I believe it was at this point that Jesus first breathed the Breath of Life into his Bride…
and The Church became a living being!
Pentecost gave spirit and strength to the whole body, but the brain, or leading organ, was already given life by Jesus himself.
At least that’s how I see it…
God Bless Us All!
I voted “Other” and didn’t see mine below, so here goes…
John 20:21 and following:
"And Jesus breathed on them and said “Receive the Holy Spirit. Whose sins you forgive they are forgiven them, and whose sins you retain they are retained…”
In other places Jesus used spittle, mud, etc. for many miracles, but this is the only time Jesus breathed on anyone… it has to mean something special… Especially since it reminds us of God “breathing” the Breath of Life into Adam, in Gen 2:7.
I believe it was at this point that Jesus first breathed the Breath of Life into his Bride…
and The Church became a living being!
Pentecost gave spirit and strength to the whole body, but the brain, or leading organ, was already given life by Jesus himself.
At least that’s how I see it…
God Bless Us All!
S
sterryfamily
Guest
Edwin, I am sure you realise that most of the Christian Church’s dogmatic declarations came about as a result of an attack from the outside against things she had always held in belief. Because she chose to solemnly define a point of doctrine at a particular moment in history has nothing to do with inventing, creating, or changing a doctrine. It merely meant affirmation or definition/clarification of doctrine held from the beginning and passed down to us through the apostles.
I am sure you are aware of this, which confuses me as to why you choose to couch your responses in this way???
J
jmcrae
Guest
The Protestants were long gone by the time the Council was finally organized. Martin Luther and several other Protestant leaders were invited to attend, but never showed up - the session on the Eucharist, for example, was post-poned three times while waiting for them to arrive, but they never did go. If they wanted (name removed by moderator)ut that badly, the opportunity was there - but they never took it.
I don’t think they have the right to criticize the outcome, since they had more than ample opportunity to be there and make their views understood, but they never took it.
- Status