When Does a Human Begin to Exist?

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Three related questions:
  1. When does a human being begin to exist?
  2. Is there such a thing as partly human versus fully human?
  3. Is there a difference between a human being and a person?
Your thoughts?

If possible, I would like to hear the first question answered first.
 
  1. Biologically, a new human being begins its existence when the sperm and egg unite to form a new and genetically distinct individual of the human species. That new human being’s DNA will stay the same from that first moment throughout it’s life. It’s always the same individual.
  2. No. There are only human beings in different stages of development.
  3. “Person” is not a biological concept. It is a concept of philosophy, theology, and law.
    In philosophy and theology, every human being, regardless of stage of development, is a person, and remains a person throughout life. Legal personhood is attributed by legislation. Ideally, it should be the same as the philosophical concept but it is not. Personhood has not been legally attributed to the unborn, even though they are undeniably human beings. That is why they can be legally killed.
 
Three related questions:
  1. When does a human being begin to exist?
  2. Is there such a thing as partly human versus fully human?
  3. Is there a difference between a human being and a person?
Your thoughts?

If possible, I would like to hear the first question answered first.
  1. Conception.
  2. No.
  3. Not all persons are human beings, but all human beings are persons. Let’s not forget the angels, demons, and (most importantly) the Three Persons of the Trinity. “Person” is a wider category than “human being”. If you like Venn diagrams, “human being” would be a small circle completely circumscribed by the larger circle “person”.
 
Legal personhood is attributed by legislation. Ideally, it should be the same as the philosophical concept but it is not. Personhood has not been legally attributed to the unborn, even though they are undeniably human beings. That is why they can be legally killed.
Why is legal personhood not attributed to the unborn if the unborn are fully human?

Is it just that the unborn have not yet separated from their mothers?

If so, does that make sense when the mother and child have different DNA and are different human beings?
 
Why is legal personhood not attributed to the unborn if the unborn are fully human?

Is it just that the unborn have not yet separated from their mothers?

If so, does that make sense when the mother and child have different DNA and are different human beings?
Since when did the Culture of Death have ‘sense’ in their reasoning?
 
Why is legal personhood not attributed to the unborn if the unborn are fully human?

Is it just that the unborn have not yet separated from their mothers?

If so, does that make sense when the mother and child have different DNA and are different human beings?
Well, that’s a legal question that I’m not sure I know the answer to. Most laws are written with adults or children in mind, although some do relate to the unborn. It is noteworthy that once the embryology of humans became clear, state laws tended to prohibit abortion. That was why abortion was illegal or limited in many states before Roe v Wade, which pretended not to know when human beings began.
 
Why is legal personhood not attributed to the unborn if the unborn are fully human?
The Catholic understanding is that people are fully human from conception to natural death. This is a result of having a soul, reflecting our creation in the image and likeness of God. A soul is not a measurable thing, but entirely spiritual. It cannot be reduced to heart beat, brain function, movement, or any of the other developmental signs that show that an unborn baby is becoming more recognizably human.

Christianity understands that all humans have souls (along with possibly Jews and Muslims), but secularists (e.g., atheists, agnostics) deny the existence of a soul, choosing to interpret “the mind” as an emergent property of biology that does not exist until a child develops and learns. As a result of the Establishment Clause of the Constitution, courts have rejected claims that are rooted in a Christian understanding of human anthropology.

In place of the Catholic understanding, the U.S. (in Roe v. Wade) uses the concept of “viability” (that is, when a baby can survive outside the womb) as the basis for when (in gestational time) banning of abortion is licit. Doe v. Bolton expanded this definition as well. Since then, the pro-life movement has, in my eyes, used bad science (e.g., the poorly-supported fetal pain theory) to try to prove the legal personhood of the unborn, and had very little success. Much of the fetal pain emphasis has been on outlawing abortion after 20 weeks. To me, the survival of very early preterm infants provides a better, more empirical basis of “viability,” with significant fractions of infants born from ages 21-23 weeks surviving at least until they leave the hospital.
Is it just that the unborn have not yet separated from their mothers?
The pro-abortion movement has a philosophical argument from Judith Jarvis Thomson that argues that if in the middle of the night while you were asleep, someone conducted surgery on you to save the life of a famous violinist who had been grievously injured in an accident by attaching her blood vessels to yours, so your kidneys can filter her blood and prevent her from dying. Judith Jarvis Thomson argues that since you were never asked whether you wanted to have this violinist hooked up to your kidneys, you are perfectly within your rights to detach yourself from the violinist, even if that means that the violinist dies. For them, this is a slam-dunk argument, because they say that an unintended pregnancy creates the same situation in a woman. Even if the baby is fully human, they argue that the woman has the right do deny the baby the use of her body (the mother’s) for gestation. The gaping hole in this argument is that any voluntary sexual act, with or without artificial contraception, involves some risk of becoming pregnant. The main counter-argument is that having voluntary sex means that you assume responsibility for the consequences of that choice. This argument against the “famous violinist” example points out that, except in the case of rape, a woman always has a choice to avoid pregnancy by not having sex.
If so, does that make sense when the mother and child have different DNA and are different human beings?
Different DNA has no bearing on the legal status of the unborn. While there is no doubt that they are a separate organism from the mother, that is not a sufficient condition for the baby to survive to the point of viability. Also, a drop of your blood has DNA in it, but that doesn’t meant that it has rights (this is a rendition of the “blob of cells” argument). Transplanted tissues and organs have different DNA than the person receiving the transplant. In like fashion, the pro-abortion movement says that the “blob of cells” that is an early conceptus/embryo/fetus is simply a biological “thing” with no mind and therefore no personhood.
 
We should also be careful not to conflate DNA and the soul; twins, after all, can have identical DNA, but are undoubtedly separate people with separate souls.

In my opinion, any time a woman thinks she might be harboring a tiny human, she ought to give it the very best chance she can of developing into a full-term baby–but never to feel guilty when, for reasons outside her control, this does not occur. I certainly don’t think even microscopic embryos ought to be considered inhuman or somehow disposable.
 
That was why abortion was illegal or limited in many states before Roe v Wade, which pretended not to know when human beings began.
Interesting. I’ve never been able to understand how the members of the Supreme Court could have pretended not to know when life began. They surely had access to the best medical authorities available at the time. Could the medical authorities not have built a consensus on when a human being began to exist?
 
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fnr:
In like fashion, the pro-abortion movement says that the “blob of cells” that is an early conceptus/embryo/fetus is simply a biological “thing” with no mind and therefore no personhood.
I suppose the answer to give here would be that the fetus has an embyronic mind (if it has a brain at all) but the mind has not fully developed, just as the fetus has a body that is not fully developed.
 
Christianity understands that all humans have souls (along with possibly Jews and Muslims), but secularists (e.g., atheists, agnostics) deny the existence of a soul, choosing to interpret “the mind” as an emergent property of biology that does not exist until a child develops and learns. As a result of the Establishment Clause of the Constitution, courts have rejected claims that are rooted in a Christian understanding of human anthropology.
I take this to be a false argument. Even if one does not recognize the existence of a soul, one must still recognize the existence of a human being. Either the human being is sacred or not. Even atheists recognize that their own right to live is sacred, whether or not its sacredness comes from God.
 
The pro-abortion movement has a philosophical argument from Judith Jarvis Thomson that argues that if in the middle of the night while you were asleep, someone conducted surgery on you to save the life of a famous violinist who had been grievously injured in an accident by attaching her blood vessels to yours, so your kidneys can filter her blood and prevent her from dying. Judith Jarvis Thomson argues that since you were never asked whether you wanted to have this violinist hooked up to your kidneys, you are perfectly within your rights to detach yourself from the violinist, even if that means that the violinist dies. For them, this is a slam-dunk argument, because they say that an unintended pregnancy creates the same situation in a woman. Even if the baby is fully human, they argue that the woman has the right do deny the baby the use of her body (the mother’s) for gestation.
Another gaping hole in the argument, besides the one you point out, is that if the mother was not consulted about the surgery to save the violinist’s life, how does that argument differ from the fact that the fetus was not consulted about its life being taken?

Thank you for an interesting post. 👍
 
Why is legal personhood not attributed to the unborn if the unborn are fully human?

Is it just that the unborn have not yet separated from their mothers?

If so, does that make sense when the mother and child have different DNA and are different human beings?
Because DNA technology was developed after abortion was made legal. Abortion legality rests on an ambiguity of when a fetus is human. That ambiguity is gone now but the law remains…for now.
 
Because DNA technology was developed after abortion was made legal. Abortion legality rests on an ambiguity of when a fetus is human. That ambiguity is gone now but the law remains…for now.
Since the ambiguity was removed by the medical profession, who is responsible for bringing that knowledge to the attention of lawgivers and jurists? The medical profession? They’ve certainly had plenty of time to do that.

Is there a certain resignation or entropy on the part of all parties not to start the debate up again?

If the doctors are not going to lead the discussion, who will?

If the lawyers are not going to lead the discussion, who will?

If the Church is not going to lead the discussion, who will?

Meantime, all those babies die because nobody will speak up? 🤷
 
If we do not say that human life begins at conception, then we live open the question of what has been conceived. It is certainty cannot be anything other than human.
 
If we do not say that human life begins at conception, then we live open the question of what has been conceived. It is certainty cannot be anything other than human.
👍 This Indeed is the purpose of the union of man and woman.

Opinion: God formed man out of clay, joined His divine life to the matter that He made in His image with the breath of life. Hence the term mother earth ? The Spirit of God is eternal I think heredity gives us all a soul from conception, then life begins. Human life ! Tampering with God’s purpose by word smithing philosophers is a huge mistake.:compcoff:

God Bless
onenow1:)
 
I suppose the answer to give here would be that the fetus has an embyronic mind (if it has a brain at all) but the mind has not fully developed, just as the fetus has a body that is not fully developed.
Philosophically (and theologically) speaking, the mind is a faculty of the soul, not of the brain. And personhood is attributed to being human. A human being by nature is a person. The mind needs the brain for expression, so is unobservable until later in development, as are the external behavioral elements attributed to personhood. But they are both present from the beginning. There is a danger in allowing human beings to be reduced to our brains.
 
Interesting. I’ve never been able to understand how the members of the Supreme Court could have pretended not to know when life began. They surely had access to the best medical authorities available at the time. Could the medical authorities not have built a consensus on when a human being began to exist?
If I recall correctly, the majority opinion in Roe said that it was not necessary for them to determine “the difficult question of when life begins.” The decision was based on the right to privacy found in the penumbras of the constitution. It was a stretch.
 
If I recall correctly, the majority opinion in Roe said that it was not necessary for them to determine “the difficult question of when life begins.” The decision was based on the right to privacy found in the penumbras of the constitution. It was a stretch.
Again, why was it a “difficult question,” and why did they feel they had to identify it as a difficult question? Any physician familiar with abortions could have told them what was being aborted … a fetus … not a cat, or a dog, or a worm, or some other unidentifiable thing.
 
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