When does a person stop being a Catholic?

[Blade_and_Blood]

lol I would have to say I can BACK to the faith when 'all of a sudden", I woke up! Well, I’ve got to be honest, I didn’t just “wake up” on my own but certainly feel that God 'woke me up". Praise the Lord for not giving up on His wayward daughter!

The 30 odd years I was a “non-practicing” Catholic and/or a nominal Methodist I didn’t consider myself a Catholic. I didn’t do anything to formally leave the Church…just quit going to mass.

People’s personal beliefs vary-- that is a given.

As I have said this before (and will continue to keep saying this), Christianity is, unfortunately, not for everyone. For some, Christianity is enlightening; for others, enlightenment lies elsewhere.

Ironically Yours.

 

[scoobydoo6v92]

As I have said this before (and will continue to keep saying this), Christianity is, unfortunately, not for everyone.

That may be true, However when we all are judged all will bend their knee and will profess that Jesus Christ is the savior the king and lord of lords king of kings and his bride is the church. Also on judgment day Christianity will be for everybody unfortunately it may be too late for some. Let’s pray that this does not happen. Scoob.

 

[Blade_and_Blood]

As I have said this before (and will continue to keep saying this), Christianity is, unfortunately, not for everyone.

That may be true, However when we all are judged all will bend their knee and will profess that Jesus Christ is the savior the king and lord of lords king of kings and his bride is the church. Also on judgment day Christianity will be for everybody unfortunately it may be too late for some. Let’s pray that this does not happen. Scoob.

Well, before that, let’s pray that our Death isn’t the state of being “unborn,” if you know what I mean.

Ironically Yours.

 

[scoobydoo6v92]

know what you mean totally…

 

[Lee1440]

People’s personal beliefs vary-- that is a given.

As I have said this before (and will continue to keep saying this), Christianity is, unfortunately, not for everyone. For some, Christianity is enlightening; for others, enlightenment lies elsewhere.

Ironically Yours.

Christianity isn’t about attaining enlightenment, even though baptism has been thought of also as “photismos.” But even so, Christianity is not about “attaining” anything. It’s about the gift of Divine Sonship and the following of The Way of The Cross. Baptism isn’t about sitting down to meditate oneself into Nirvana. It’s about being received into covenantal relationship in the Family of God, actually receiving a participation in the life of the Blessed Trinity in this very lifetime. And then loving and serving all those we meet because when we meet others, we see the face of Christ in them.

That not everyone is aware of this,–that not every Christian lives up to this–is not so much a reflection on Christianity as on the way it is taught (or not taught) and the way it is ignored. If more people actually went around living Christian lives, the world would be a completely different place. That most people don’t try this is not a compelling reason not to try.

 

[Blade_and_Blood]

Christianity isn’t about attaining enlightenment, even though baptism has been thought of also as “photismos.” But even so, Christianity is not about “attaining” anything. It’s about the gift of Divine Sonship and the following of The Way of The Cross. Baptism isn’t about sitting down to meditate oneself into Nirvana. It’s about being received into covenantal relationship in the Family of God, actually receiving a participation in the life of the Blessed Trinity in this very lifetime. And then loving and serving all those we meet because when we meet others, we see the face of Christ in them.

That not everyone is aware of this,–that not every Christian lives up to this–is not so much a reflection on Christianity as on the way it is taught (or not taught) and the way it is ignored. If more people actually went around living Christian lives, the world would be a completely different place. That most people don’t try this is not a compelling reason not to try.

That’s the problem. What is a Christian life? Everyone usually perceives such a concept differently. And when it comes to practice, there are many people out there who practice irresponsibly.

Whether Christianity is about attaining enlightenment, God knows it’s not, and you’re right in saying it’s not, but that doesn’t mean Christians don’t *find *it enlightening. Whenever someone converts or is trying to search for a religion, they usually try to find one that attempts to answers there questions in Life. Some want more, others want less.

Ironically Yours.

 

[1234]

I am also taking this another step further. I have not heard many priests ever speak out against voting for these apostates like Joe Biden Nancy pelosi Ted heelllleelllppp Kennedy and so forth. IT IS A SIN A SIN A MORTAL SIN!!! ANY OF YOU CATHOLICS TO VOTE FOR PRO DEATH CANDIDATES!!! I am so disgusted with the Bishops in the northeast and any highly Catholic state that won’t give up pomp and circumstance to teach our faith. It is time that priests start talking about things of today. Scoob.

Quit yelling, Scooby.

We hear you.

We voted against a party and a candidate that voted pro-death to those already born, such as the thousands of Americans killed and maimed in Iraq and hundreds of thousands of similar Iraqis.

But this is off-topic.

Your yelling is off-topic too.

 

[scoobydoo6v92]

Quit yelling, Scooby.

We hear you.

We voted against a party and a candidate that voted pro-death to those already born, such as the thousands of Americans killed and maimed in Iraq and hundreds of thousands of similar Iraqis.

But this is off-topic.

Your yelling is off-topic too.

Wasn’t yelling just trying to point out that the most Catholic states have voted for a pro death candidate and it is sick. This topic was about when someone “stops” being Catholic. As far as you guys, I am not judging, All I said was or at least try to say was about States that voted pro death, Not anyone on this forum which is very conservative and orthodox in my opinion as to why I like being on this forum. Forgive me if I offended anyone. God Bless Scoob…

 

[Priscilla_Ann]

Wasn’t yelling just trying to point out that the most Catholic states have voted for a pro death candidate and it is sick. This topic was about when someone “stops” being Catholic. As far as you guys, I am not judging, All I said was or at least try to say was about States that voted pro death, Not anyone on this forum which is very conservative and orthodox in my opinion as to why I like being on this forum. Forgive me if I offended anyone. God Bless Scoob…

Scooby:

Are you saying that if a Catholic voted for Barack Obama, even if it was because of issues unrelated to abortion, they are no longer Catholic?

I voted for Obama, so I guess it’s a good thing I left the Catholic Church many years ago.

 

[scoobydoo6v92]

Scooby:

Are you saying that if a Catholic voted for Barack Obama, even if it was because of issues unrelated to abortion, they are no longer Catholic?

I voted for Obama, so I guess it’s a good thing I left the Catholic Church many years ago.

I am saying that if one were Catholic and KNOW all her teachings and still vote for a baby killer yes I feel that that person is not in unity of the Catholic Church. Obama is for any perverted anti Christ thing and I pray that he will be too busy to pass his agenda. I am saying that all the politicians that call themselves Catholic and yet won’t take a direct public stand against FOCA abortion mercy killings like Kavorkian and promote same sex marriages they need to be publically excommunicated by a Bishop PERIOD. Bishops that allows communion to be served to politicians like scary Kerry Nasty I mean Nancy pelosi Biden Kennedy and the rest of those scalawags are an Anathema as well as the politicians and the knowledged voters that know the Catholic faith but still are worried about themselves selfish reasons and not the unborn who are human the moment of conception. Also all the abortion supporters and any other perverted act supporters woe onto them for one day they will be enlightened
I am not judging you or anyone in particular. .But any Bishop or priest who voted for Obama or any other baby killing politician, I feel will be stoking a huge fire IN HELL!!!after judgment day for they are held to a much higher standard than the regular “joe sixpack” cafeteria or nominal Catholic. Until they repent in their hearts. I know there are some Bishops that voted for that baby killer but that is another discussion. I just hope they see the light before it is too late.
One cannot in good standing with Jesus Christ whether Catholic or private non church practicing Christian vote for someone that supports abortion or any other perverted act. Even if he is the best person for the job and he is for everything else that you support one cannot vote for that candidate. and if you find a priest that has the guts to speak out against this garbage he will tell you the same thing. even evangelical preachers will tell you the same thing. If not they are not teaching God’s word.
I pray that you see the light and return home and that you will find peace and contentment in the true church the teaching church the original church God Bless Scoob.

 

[Lichtung]

I am seeking some clarification concerning a legal matter. I have filled up a Declaration of Defection from the Roman Catholic Church (Actus formalis defectionis ab Ecclesia catholica) and was about to send it when I found out that the act of formal defection has been abolished. This seems to mean that I cannot leave the Church.
However, it appears that something called a public or “notorious” defection from the Catholic faith or from the communion of the Church remains possible.
Yet, it is very difficult to get some information on what it is and how one can proceed. How does one “notoriously” defect? How can I be sure that the catholic church stops counting me as one of its members? Is there a form I can fill up to guarantee that my name is not used against my will to boost up their numbers?
I’ll appreciate any information on this matter.

 

[Fairwinds]

I am seeking some clarification concerning a legal matter. I have filled up a Declaration of Defection from the Roman Catholic Church (Actus formalis defectionis ab Ecclesia catholica) and was about to send it when I found out that the act of formal defection has been abolished. This seems to mean that I cannot leave the Church.
However, it appears that something called a public or “notorious” defection from the Catholic faith or from the communion of the Church remains possible.
Yet, it is very difficult to get some information on what it is and how one can proceed. How does one “notoriously” defect? How can I be sure that the catholic church stops counting me as one of its members? Is there a form I can fill up to guarantee that my name is not used against my will to boost up their numbers?
I’ll appreciate any information on this matter.

there are couple of very good sources on this, including what “notorious” means in the canonical sense.

 

[Lichtung]

Yes. Your soul is indelibly marked. You can be a non-practicing Catholic or an apostate Catholic, but you’ll always be Catholic. It’s not that you’re “considered” a Catholic. You are a Catholic.

I hope that helps.

It does and that’s the madness of it. You can’t leave the Church. They have abolished the Declaration of Defection from the Roman Catholic Church (Actus formalis defectionis ab Ecclesia catholica) to keep highly inflated numbers after thousands of Irish people filled up the declaration in protest for the crimes perpetrated by the church (sex scandal, child abuse, slave labor, etc).
I was baptized as a child but never believed a word of their lies but they will keep counting me as if I were one of them. This is disgusting.

 

[Lichtung]

there are couple of very good sources on this, including what “notorious” means in the canonical sense.

Thanks, so where can I find this “couple of very good sources”?

 

[Fairwinds]

Thanks, so where can I find this “couple of very good sources”?

you’ll have to do that on your own.

 

[Lichtung]

you’ll have to do that on your own.

Remarkably useful response!

 

[Fairwinds]

Remarkably useful response!

thanks.

 

[Lichtung]

thanks.

I would assume you know I was being ironic. Preventing people from officially leaving in order to fabricate “official” numbers is petty, immoral, and disgusting. The same goes for your “useful” non-answer…

 

[Lichtung]

The UN Declaration of Human Rights recognizes (Article 18) that “Everyone has the right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion; this right includes freedom to change his religion or belief, and freedom, either alone or in community with others and in public or private, to manifest his religion or belief in teaching, practice, worship and observance.” and (Article 20): (1) Everyone has the right to freedom of peaceful assembly and association. (2) No one may be compelled to belong to an association.

By denying me the right to leave their cult, the Catholic Church is violating Articles 18 and 20 of the UN Declaration of Human Rights and therefore violating my human rights. I no longer want to be a part of this disgusting organization to which I never subscribed in the first place and I claim my right to leave.
The reasons are plentiful- the sex abuse of children and its cover-up, of course, but also the exploitation of child and women’s labor, the sexism, racism, and homophobic culture, the reactionary politics, the support of fascism… Looking at these centuries of mind control by means of superstition, fear, and ignorance I feel sick. To know that tat these people can prevent me from officially leaving in order to maintain false numbers adds insult to injury.

 

[LilyM]

The UN Declaration of Human Rights recognizes (Article 18) that “Everyone has the right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion; this right includes freedom to change his religion or belief, and freedom, either alone or in community with others and in public or private, to manifest his religion or belief in teaching, practice, worship and observance.” and (Article 20): (1) Everyone has the right to freedom of peaceful assembly and association. (2) No one may be compelled to belong to an association.

By denying me the right to leave their cult, the Catholic Church is violating Articles 18 and 20 of the UN Declaration of Human Rights and therefore violating my human rights. I no longer want to be a part of this disgusting organization to which I never subscribed in the first place and I claim my right to leave.
The reasons are plentiful- the sex abuse of children and its cover-up, of course, but also the exploitation of child and women’s labor, the sexism, racism, and homophobic culture, the reactionary politics, the support of fascism… Looking at these centuries of mind control by means of superstition, fear, and ignorance I feel sick. To know that tat these people can prevent me from officially leaving in order to maintain false numbers adds insult to injury.

A biological family is an association. A race is an association. Your biological family and race are things that are both fixed within your DNA, and you cannot choose not to belong to either no matter how much you may want not to belong or to belong to a different bio family or race. So if you are ‘compelled’ to belong to the Church the. You are equally ‘compelled’ to be a member of your biological family and race.

By the way - how exactly do you imagine statistics are compiled relating to numbers of Catholics? I can tell you it is NOT a matter of simply counting all the baptised who are currently alive. Because the Church keeps baptismal records but is by no means automatically notified of the death of a baptised person. It is only notified if Catholic funeral rites are wanted, which by no means always happens.

So - baptismal records for the last century or more would have to be carefully compared with death certificates - and remember a Catholic can be baptised anywhere in the world and die anywhere else in the world. It would be a mammoth undertaking and require a huge and frankly incredibly wasteful use of resources.

Now there are two much easier ways which are in fact used to determine who is numbered among the Church’s members. One is government censuses. The other is parish registries of enrolled members. Both of these require people to SELF-identify as Catholic when completing their registration forms or census forms.

You would not be included on either a census or a parish register of members, I can assure you. And so I would stake a good sum of money on it that you are not in fact counted in any official statistic anywhere as being Catholic.