When does civil disobedience become a sin?

[Texas_Roofer]

The issues that bothered me were

1. They escalated the peaceful protest which was immediately outside the gate. This I believe added danger for everybody
2. They became offensive in entering through the fence

In marching or lying before the gate you communicate, in entering the fence it is an offensive action which will surely provoke more offensive actions from both sides. Even when people are physically removed as will occur if you lie long enough before the gate the protester goes from one submissive position (prostrate) to another (handcuffed) with out offensive action thus no violence is necessary. IMO the key to all civil protests are for conditions to remain nonviolent.

 

[Texas_Roofer]

Over the weekend, I read somewhere that we had to obey the major laws of our civil governments (I’m paraphrasing). Otherwise, we’d all be committing sin if we went over the speed limit by 1 mph, or crossed outside of a crosswalk by an inch.

I will try to determine where I read that.

No real need. Civil Law and Civil authority are to be actions within Natural Moral Law. In this case the accusation is torture which is not within Natural Moral Law and thus a catholic is to work with civil authorities to stop the violation of Natural Moral Law. Only if such can not be achieved through civil means should just war be considered.

 

[Al_Masetti]

Ituyu;1918904:

The actions of the protesters forced a reaction by the military that included the possibility that someone could be seriously hurt. The military didn’t know the extent of the threat until the protesters were confronted arrested and questioned by military police. The military officials couldn’t have known the intend of this invasion. That word “invasion” seems like a strong word to use, but there is no better word to describe it if you were one of the soldier that witnessed it.

Breaching the security fence is number one. The fact that there was trepassing can’t be miminized by the idea that they climbed through a hole in the fence.

Planning the invasion for more than a year was another.

Putting members of our soldiers at a higher risk of injury is another.

These people didn’t just climb through the fence and kneel down with there hands behind there heads ready for arrest. They continued their incursion futher onto military property.

A question needs to be asked: what is the “origin” of these kinds of actions, in which a lot of detailed planning is engaged in to stage an event that would become a deliberate provocation.

The other question is: were ALL of the planners of the event participants in the breakin and tresspass event?

In other words, were some of the planners actually OUTSIDERS?

 

[Dale_M]

This is a US military installation, if weapons weren’t drawn for this invasion then something is wrong with our military.

Not necessarily. The protest is an annual event and apparently a dozen or two protesters invade the base every year. So the command surely must expect it to happen and may well have guidelines which treat the invaders gently. This would avoid bad PR.

Ituyu:

I don’t believe that our military would leave holes in a fence if it created a risk. So it must not have been that important to ward off trespassers.

Yes, it is puzzling. But we can’t rule out that the hole was deliberately created by one of the thousands of protestors. After all, the invasion of the base is a tradition of the gathering.
Al Masetti:

Don’t expect special treatment … exemption from punishment … just because you “feel” like you and your mission are holy and special.

I got the impression from the article that she expects to serve time.

Frank Cordaro, a retired Catholic priest here in Iowa, has invaded military installations many times. He has typically gotten a few months prison time, although his last incarceration about half of his time was spent in county jails awaiting bed space in the federal system.

During his last incarceration the Des Moines Register ran excerpts from his diary. He apparently was given respect from the other prisoners when they learned why he was doing time. (But being a retired priest gained him points, too.)

 

[Al_Masetti]

Not necessarily. The protest is an annual event and apparently a dozen or two protesters invade the base every year. So the command surely must expect it to happen and may well have guidelines which treat the invaders gently. This would avoid bad PR.

Yes, it is puzzling. But we can’t rule out that the hole was deliberately created by one of the thousands of protestors. After all, the invasion of the base is a tradition of the gathering.

I got the impression from the article that she expects to serve time.

Frank Cordaro, a retired Catholic priest here in Iowa, has invaded military installations many times. He has typically gotten a few months prison time, although his last incarceration about half of his time was spent in county jails awaiting bed space in the federal system.

During his last incarceration the Des Moines Register ran excerpts from his diary. He apparently was given respect from the other prisoners when they learned why he was doing time. (But being a retired priest gained him points, too.)

One of our retired bishops, Bishop Vaughan [sp?] used to get arrested a lot picketing abortion mills.

Does Father Cordaro also get arrested picketing abortion mills? Or does he restrict himself to military bases?

 

[Dale_M]

I don’t know him personally, but according to a short biography:

He was arrested numerous times in non-violent acts of civil disobedience for a wide range of issues, including nuclear weapons, the arms race, US foreign policies, nuclear power, the farm crisis, hopelessness, abortion and the death penalty

stjosepheducationalcenter.org/frankcordarobio.htm

How one commits civil disobedience to protest hopelessness, I am not sure! But he is a persistant protester. He told one Catholic newspaper from the UK that he has been arrested more than 200 times.

He is also determined to go to prison:

Three other members of the Catholic Worker movement crossed the boundary of Offutt in his most recent protest.

Retired priest Fr Jack McCaslin, Renee Espeland and Paul Gallagher all received probation but Mr Cordaro was jailed as he told the judge he would not pay a fine, attend probation or carry out community service

desmoinescatholicworker.org/morenews.htm

The Offut in question is Offut Air Force Base, home of the U.S. Strategic Command which coordinates the planning, targetting and wartime use of U.S. nuclear weapons.