When does drinking alcohol become a venial sin?

[houston1]

I understand that deliberately getting drunk is a grave sin which I understand means drinking to the point of losing your ability to reason. However, at what point does drinking alcohol become a venial sin? Is there a blood alcohol content (BAC) benchmark? I enjoying drinking beer and I try not to over do it. I don’t drink and drive. I look at beer like other people look at dessert. My average calorie intake when drinking beer is about 400 to 450 calories per evening that I drink, fewer calories than many desserts. Am I sinning? I don’t even want to commit a venial sin. Please help me. I researched this on the internet and I can’t find an answer.

God bless,
houston1

 

[kristanl]

I think a lot of this has to do with your intentions. If you are not drinking to get drunk then you are fine. I think its when you are trying to get drunk, where it becomes sinful.

 

[ML561]

What if you have a severe addiction to alcohol ? I have known several people with that problem. All of them said they never drank with the intention of getting drunk but ended up doing so anyway, sometimes with very bad consequences (drunk driving charges, job losses, divorces…) Some were able to quit drinking with the help of Alcoholics Anonymous or other agencies, but some have never been able to stop even though they want to. They are actually physically dependent on alcohol and need a certain amount of it to function or they will suffer bad withdrawal symptoms that may require hospitalization. My understanding of sin is that it requires full consent of the will. If someone is an addict, rather than someone who deliberately and willfully sets out to get drunk, is that person a sinner or someone with a disease who needs professional help?

 

[ljubim]

In the bible, being drunk is scorned, while at the same time drinking itself, to make glad the heart of men, is applauded, and even one part says that it’s a part of being human. So I second the reason part.

 

[Bookcat]

Being really drunk can be a mortal sin (with the other two aspects met – full knowledge and full consent). A complete loss of reason would be mortal. (like you do not remember what you did…or do not know right from wrong etc…)

If one forsees one will lose ones reason completely it would thus be a grave matter to drink that amount of alcohol.

To partially loose ones reason knowingly is venial. (but he can still judge right from wrong etc…) for instance you know you have had enough and still keep drinking knowing you can loose your reason partially…

Of course one should not drive etc.

immoderate drinking is sinful …reasonable drinking can be good. “God gave men wine to gladden their hearts…”

Moderate drinking is not a sin. And thus to feel some effects and enjoy the drink is not a sin…

of course if one is an alocholic one should stay away from it…

or if for some other reason of health etc. (or moderate it accordingly)

(From my memory and a work called “To Settle your Conscience” by Kucharek …OSV)

 

[houston1]

Being really drunk can be a mortal sin (with the other two aspects met – full knowledge and full consent). A complete loss of reason would be mortal. (like you do not remember what you did…or do not know right from wrong etc…)

If one forsees one will lose ones reason completely it would thus be a grave matter to drink that amount of alcohol.

To partially loose ones reason knowingly is venial. (but he can still judge right from wrong etc…) for instance you know you have had enough and still keep drinking knowing you can loose your reason partially…

Of course one should not drive etc.

immoderate drinking is sinful …reasonable drinking can be good. “God gave men wine to gladden their hearts…”

Moderate drinking is not a sin. And thus to feel some effects and enjoy the drink is not a sin…

of course if one is an alocholic one should stay away from it…

or if for some other reason of health etc. (or moderate it accordingly)

(From my memory and a work called “To Settle your Conscience” by Kucharek …OSV)

Thanks to all of you who are replying to my post. I do have some follow-up questions. In particular, how do you know when you *partially *lose your reason ability? I am trying to keep my drinking moderate while still enjoying the process of drinking. What is the line that is crossed when drinking becomes immoderate? Can anyone give me examples of this?

 

[rinnie]

Thanks to all of you who are replying to my post. I do have some follow-up questions. In particular, how do you know when you *partially *lose your reason ability? I am trying to keep my drinking moderate while still enjoying the process of drinking. What is the line that is crossed when drinking becomes immoderate? Can anyone give me examples of this?

I think it is different for everyone. One person can have 3 beers and be perfectly fine while another can be flat on their backs.

I think that if drinking is a problem usually others see it before and bring it to our attention. But also it is a venial sin imo if you use it for the wrong reason. To escape something, etc. I do not feel drinking is a sin, I feel we can make drinking a sin.

Just like anything else. over indulge. Food can be a sin, to gamble, sex, shopping. Everything can be a sin if you cannot control it, and it begins to control you.

 

[rinnie]

[SIGN][/SIGN]

Thanks to all of you who are replying to my post. I do have some follow-up questions. In particular, how do you know when you *partially *lose your reason ability? I am trying to keep my drinking moderate while still enjoying the process of drinking. What is the line that is crossed when drinking becomes i[SIGN]mmoderate[/SIGN]? Can anyone give me examples of this?

When it changes your personality, when you need it and cannot do without it. When you are feeling buzzed as they say and continue to drink. when it effects others lifes also,

If you drink and do not begin to see when you are starting to lose your reason ability you should not drink. You should never begin to lose it. That should never ever happen for any reason.

 

[Bookcat]

Thanks to all of you who are replying to my post. I do have some follow-up questions. In particular, how do you know when you *partially *lose your reason ability? I am trying to keep my drinking moderate while still enjoying the process of drinking. What is the line that is crossed when drinking becomes immoderate? Can anyone give me examples of this?

I should add too that one should take care that one does not lead another into drunknes etc. forgot that part.

---

One can enjoy drinking alcohol … do not mistake the normal good feelings for loosing ones reason … though of course one can loose ones reasons and feel good doing it…

But aside from mortal sin…

One can commit a venial sin with immoderation in food or drink … via for example eating or drinking too much.

The virtues of temperance and prudence enter here.

It is hard to say for each person is different as to when one starts to be immoderate …

It is often learned via experience …

but i encourage those who may scruple over it --not to.

 

[Bookcat]

From the Catechism

1809 Temperance is the moral virtue that moderates the attraction of pleasures and provides balance in the use of created goods. It ensures the will’s mastery over instincts and keeps desires within the limits of what is honorable. The temperate person directs the sensitive appetites toward what is good and maintains a healthy discretion: “Do not follow your inclination and strength, walking according to the desires of your heart.” Temperance is often praised in the Old Testament: “Do not follow your base desires, but restrain your appetites.” In the New Testament it is called “moderation” or “sobriety.” We ought “to live sober, upright, and godly lives in this world.”

1838 Temperance moderates the attraction of the pleasures of the senses and provides balance in the use of created goods.

2290 The virtue of temperance disposes us to avoid every kind of excess: the abuse of food, alcohol, tobacco, or medicine. Those incur grave guilt who, by drunkenness or a love of speed, endanger their own and others’ safety on the road, at sea, or in the air.

1806 Prudence is the virtue that disposes practical reason to discern our true good in every circumstance and to choose the right means of achieving it; “the prudent man looks where he is going.” “Keep sane and sober for your prayers.” Prudence is “right reason in action,” writes St. Thomas Aquinas, following Aristotle. It is not to be confused with timidity or fear, nor with duplicity or dissimulation. It is called auriga virtutum (the charioteer of the virtues); it guides the other virtues by setting rule and measure. It is prudence that immediately guides the judgment of conscience. The prudent man determines and directs his conduct in accordance with this judgment. With the help of this virtue we apply moral principles to particular cases without error and overcome doubts about the good to achieve and the evil to avoid.

 

[houston1]

Thanks again for the responses. I think focusing on temperance may help me here. There have been times when drinking that I have become more argumentative. I would say that, in this case, I have crossed the line into immoderate drinking. If I lose charity, I know then that I have drank too much.

I would appreciate more examples of moderate verses immoderate drinking. This is weighing heavily on my heart.

Someone mentioned “To Settle Your Conscience.” What is this?

 

[Carmelite101]

I would appreciate more examples of moderate verses immoderate drinking. This is weighing heavily on my heart.

Well, I’ve had a very similar struggle to with what you’re going through. Trying to find an exact point, like an exact meter that will beep once you’re getting close to drinking to the point of it being sinful.

I kept on rationalizing, and I still do…because drinking feels good, and it really doesn’t feel wrong (like you KNOW murder, lying, sexual sins, etc. is wrong right away) so it gets confusing.

It’s also not the amount of drinks but how fast you drink. Slamming 3 beers in an hour is different then milking 3 beers throughout a football game. So maybe if you stretch it out over time that might help.

One thing you might want to try is not drinking for a week and see if you can handle it. It’s not as easy as it sounds, but it sure is liberating, and you can wake up in the morning feeling a lot better about yourself then if you had even 1 drink the previous night.

God bless you and may the peace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you.

 

[Bookcat]

Thanks again for the responses. I think focusing on temperance may help me here. There have been times when drinking that I have become more argumentative. I would say that, in this case, I have crossed the line into immoderate drinking. If I lose charity, I know then that I have drank too much.

I would appreciate more examples of moderate verses immoderate drinking. This is weighing heavily on my heart.

i would say ‘sinned against charity’ maybe that could be one sign …

Someone mentioned “To Settle Your Conscience.” What is this?

It is a book on moral theology --but out of print. i find it very useful …though on somethings it may need some fine tuning or is out of date.

on the virtue of temperance --if you are open to a more philosphical-theological work – i recommend: “The Four Cardinal Virtues” by Josef Pieper.

 

[rinnie]

Thanks again for the responses. I think focusing on temperance may help me here. There have been times when drinking that I have become more argumentative. I would say that, in this case, I have crossed the line into immoderate drinking. If I lose charity, I know then that I have drank too much.

I would appreciate more examples of moderate verses immoderate drinking. This is weighing heavily on my heart.

Someone mentioned “To Settle Your Conscience.” What is this?

Also if drinking brings back the past in a negative way. And it makes you no only angry a cry baby. There is nothing worse then a crying drunk!

 

[coda]

It was explained to me by a priest that drinking= no sin. Drinking to lose oneself= venially sinful. Drinking and losing ones ability to reason or endangering another= grave issue. Once "grave’ is met, it becomes the individual’s issue weather it is mortal… Generally, you just KNOW when you’ve really crossed the line…

 

[houston1]

Thanks everybody again for your responses. They are very helpful. When I am visiting extended family I can go without drinking for a week or more. I don’t have any withdrawal effects from this that I can tell. I mainly drink when I am at home with my husband while watching T.V. and I will drink when we go out to eat. My husband likes to drink too. I also don’t have hangovers resulting from my current drinking pattern.

I have cried while drinking but it is usually when discussing religion which also makes me cry when not drinking.

I wouldn’t say that I drink to “lose myself.” I actually like the taste and the relaxation effect. I also view it as dessert.

I am definitely going to try to read “To Settle Your Conscience” and “The Four Cardinal Virtues.”

One thing that confuses me is the Wedding at Cana. Just how much did each person, including Jesus and Mary, drink at that wedding?

 

[Carmelite101]

One thing that confuses me is the Wedding at Cana. Just how much did each person, including Jesus and Mary, drink at that wedding?

A good question and highly debated subject.

I just put my faith in Jesus’s judgement.

 

[rinnie]

Thanks everybody again for your responses. They are very helpful. When I am visiting extended family I can go without drinking for a week or more. I don’t have any withdrawal effects from this that I can tell. I mainly drink when I am at home with my husband while watching T.V. and I will drink when we go out to eat. My husband likes to drink too. I also don’t have hangovers resulting from my current drinking pattern.

I have cried while drinking but it is usually when discussing religion which also makes me cry when not drinking.

I wouldn’t say that I drink to “lose myself.” I actually like the taste and the relaxation effect. I also view it as dessert.

I am definitely going to try to read “To Settle Your Conscience” and “The Four Cardinal Virtues.”

One thing that confuses me is the Wedding at Cana. Just how much did each person, including Jesus and Mary, drink at that wedding?

I would guess ALOT because they ran out Just kidding. You can be be sure that our Dear Blessed Mother and Dear Jesus conducted themself in respectful manner.

I learned also when you are having a bad time in your life DON’T DRINK. Deal with your problem first. I like to unwind with my husband especially now its Friday we are at home, its cold out we have the wood burner going and we like to relax and unwind the week. A couple vodka slushes will be just the ticket.

Another thing is if you are questioning yourself you need to ask yourself why. But I have a feeling you are just fine!
I always tease Father and tell him I want the good wine that he has hidden in the room beside the altar. He always laughs.

 

[rinnie]

[SIGN][/SIGN]

Thanks everybody again for your responses. They are very helpful. [SIGN]When I am visiting extended family [/SIGN]I can go without drinking for a week or more. I don’t have any withdrawal effects from this that I can tell. I mainly drink when I am at home with my husband while watching T.V. and I will drink when we go out to eat. My husband likes to drink too. I also don’t have hangovers resulting from my current drinking pattern.

I have cried while drinking but it is usually when discussing religion which also makes me cry when not drinking.

I wouldn’t say that I drink to “lose myself.” I actually like the taste and the relaxation effect. I also view it as dessert.

I am definitely going to try to read “To Settle Your Conscience” and “The Four Cardinal Virtues.”

One thing that confuses me is the Wedding at Cana. Just how much did each person, including Jesus and Mary, drink at that wedding?

Trust me when you come home you will NEED a drink. Just kidding

 

[coda]

Thanks everybody again for your responses. They are very helpful. When I am visiting extended family I can go without drinking for a week or more. I don’t have any withdrawal effects from this that I can tell. I mainly drink when I am at home with my husband while watching T.V. and I will drink when we go out to eat. My husband likes to drink too. I also don’t have hangovers resulting from my current drinking pattern.

I have cried while drinking but it is usually when discussing religion which also makes me cry when not drinking.

I wouldn’t say that I drink to “lose myself.” I actually like the taste and the relaxation effect. I also view it as dessert.

I am definitely going to try to read “To Settle Your Conscience” and “The Four Cardinal Virtues.”

One thing that confuses me is the Wedding at Cana. Just how much did each person, including Jesus and Mary, drink at that wedding?

I should expand somewhat on "lose oneself’… this does not mean to lose one’s reason or moral guard. Just to lose one’s immediate self { worries, burdens, to lighten up or have fun}. This is why anyone who drinks does so.