When does Hell = Death?

[Zaccheus]

Umm… not quite true. We have copies of copies of the originals, and we have access to them .

I didn’t mean physical access , Gorgias. I meant that I can’t read Hebrew or Greek, and this is true of the majority of Catholics. Without translation, a physical copy of Scripture in Latin or Greek is useless to me.

 

[EndTimes]

That’s not exactly true. It’s a disputed question. Some say “yes” to a Hebrew source to Matthew, while others say “no”.

Sure… Everything’s disputed.
Especially anything supporting JESUS as the Messiah of All
Unto itself - a statement like that carries little to no weight of historical consequence.
…
Early Historical EVIDENCEs Point to Matthew preached / wrote in Hebrew… !

[St. Irenæus] tells us that Matthew preached the [Gospel] among the [Hebrews]

[St. Clement of Alexandria] claims that he did this for fifteen years,

[Eusebius] maintains that, before going into other countries,
he gave them his [Gospel] in the [mother tongue]

Traditions hold that Matthew Preached in “Ethiopia” - home to several Semitic languages.

 

[Gorgias]

Early Historical EVIDENCEs Point to Matthew preached / wrote in Hebrew… !

Everything you’ve written points to preaching, not writing, in Hebrew… doesn’t it? One would preach in the tongue of the audience, but would still write in the lingua franca (in this case, Koine Greek) for the wider audience, no?

 

[EndTimes]

Everything you’ve written points to preaching , not writing , in Hebrew… doesn’t it?

Preaching for sure …

However… how would you possibly if/that Matthew did not Author Matthew’s Gospel?

EVEN IF Matthew - as did Paul - have a Scribe put the Oral Gospel into Written form… ?

You don’t have any evidence to support that notion which seeks to undermine Matthew/Hebrew

_

 

[Gorgias]

However… how would you possibly if/that Matthew did not Author Matthew’s Gospel?

Not sure what you mean, here.

You don’t have any evidence to support that notion which seeks to undermine Matthew/Hebrew

I don’t need evidence to deny a claim that’s unproven. I’m still waiting to see the evidence for the claim that’s been made.

 

[Todd_Easton]

The scriptures as written by ancient Prophets and Jesus Christ should never be change. The contemporary “Bible” is not a reliable source for scriptures if indeed they are going to change them to suit the needs of the people today. God did not intend us to rewrite his scriptures!

I think maybe you are not taking into account that sometimes the meaning of a word changes over time. Although the written words of the Greek New Testament have a fixed meaning, how they are translated into English must necessarily change over time as the English language changes, as the meaning of English words change over time. The meaning of the English word hell has change over the centuries. It once had a wider meaning than it does today. Centuries ago, the English word hell was used to refer to the underworld place where the souls of all the dead went to after death, the good souls as well as the wicked souls, and it (hell) was a good translation of the original New Testament Greek word in Matthew 16:18, which is transliterated as Hades. However, today the English word hell has a much narrower meaning and is used to refer just to the fiery place of torment where the souls of the wicked go after death and it is no longer a good translation of the original New Testament Greek word, Hades. Because of this change in the meaning of the English word hell over the centuries, many recent English translations of the Bible have either left the original New Testament Greek word, Hades, untranslated or have translated it with another English word that encompasses the souls of all the dead, even the English word death.

 

[EndTimes]

However… how would you possibly if/that Matthew did not Author Matthew’s Gospel?

Really? It’s a rhetorical way of saying that your claim lacks supportive evidence.

 

[Gorgias]

Really? It’s a rhetorical way of saying that your claim lacks supportive evidence.

OK. Got it.

Here’s the thing: I’m not claiming that Matthew isn’t the author of the Gospel of Matthew, so I don’t know where you’re getting that from. We were talking about whether Matthew originated from a Hebrew or Greek original text. If there is definitive evidence of such a text, let’s see it! (At best, we could say that it’s a disputed claim, with not a whole lot more than a reference in passing by Jerome.)

 

[EndTimes]

We were talking about whether Matthew originated from a Hebrew or Greek original text.

Yes… I know… We’ve been doing exactly that…

It’s a very long topic to involve in …

Far more important to Believers is its Message… …

Which from it - Faith is Borne.

Ergo they do not over-concern themselves with potential never-ending discussions which have the potential to lead them off the Path which Jesus trods…

Gorgias … I’ve already provided to you …
some solid supportive evidences from several ancient historical sources.

The early Christian writers assert that St. Matthew wrote a Gospel in Hebrew.

Speaking of Hebrew… Was Not Matthew an obviously educated Hebrew
who would be completely fluent in Aramaic and Hebrew?

Were not the Jews the primary persons being evangelized to?

_

 

[Gorgias]

Gorgias … I’ve already provided to you …
some solid supportive evidences from several ancient historical sources.

Yes – they spoke to preaching, not written texts.

The early Christian writers assert that St. Matthew wrote a Gospel in Hebrew.

Some make mention of it, but in ways that are somewhat open to interpretation.

Speaking of Hebrew… Was Not Matthew an obviously educated Hebrew
who would be completely fluent in Aramaic and Hebrew?

And Greek. And Latin.

Were not the Jews the primary persons being evangelized to?

Matthew’s intended audience was Christians who are Jewish. Nevertheless, his references to his audience’s familiarity with pagans and their customs makes it apparent that the community in which his audience lived would have included Gentiles. One wouldn’t evangelize Gentiles in Hebrew. (In fact, the number of Jews of that day who spoke Hebrew was far fewer than the number who spoke Aramaic!)

So… a Koine Greek source seems to make far more sense than a Hebrew one.

 

[EndTimes]

Yes – they spoke to preaching , not written texts .

Yes… And such is Catholic Teachings

First the Events

Then the Oral Accounts

Then the Oral Accounts put into Written Accounts

Anything else?

The GOSPEL is what all have to accept in order to enter God’s Kingdom!

Salvation never solely sat upon Written Accounts.

)

 

[Gorgias]

Anything else?

Yep. Anything that demonstrates a Hebrew original text, please.