M
Mystical_Seeker
Guest
When does “humility” become “self-loathing” or “prideful”?
“Pride” is stereotypically associated with arrogant and dominating individuals, but is far more versatile than just that.
The first sections of St. John’s Dark Night of the Soul go into much detail about how subtle and complex are the ways of pride working in us.
When it is actually “pride” to “humble” oneself?
With the same tongue we both bless God and curse our fellow man.
But we also curse ourselves. “Self-loathing” usually wins high marks not for usefulness, but as a sign of “humility” but is it? Is it possible we are deceived into hating ourselves – thus hating Christ if we believe that even we ourselves are at least the “least of His brothers”?
Further, does this type of behavior increase the presumption and pride in those who derive satisfaction or even gain worldly power if the “masses of people in the Body” were to hate themselves to the point where their thirst is for something – anything – to tell them they are on the Right Path with God.
I’ll leave it with a quote from chapter 2 of Dark Night of the Soul, about pride.
exercises and undertakings that a certain kind of secret pride is generated
in them that begets a complacency with themselves and their
accomplishments, even though holy works do of their very nature cause
humility. Then they develop a somewhat vain – at times very vain – desire
to speak of spiritual things in others’ presence, and sometimes even to
instruct rather than be instructed; in their hearts they condemn others who
do not seem to have the kind of devotion they would like them to have, and
sometimes they give expression to this criticism like the pharisee who
despised the publican while he boasted and praised God for the good deeds
he himself accomplished [Lk. 18:11-12].1
2.2. The devil, desiring the growth of pride and presumption in these
beginners, often increases their fervor and readiness to perform such
works, and other ones, too. For he is quite aware that all these works and
virtues are not only worthless for them, but even become vices. Some of
these persons become so evil-minded that they do not want anyone except
themselves to appear holy; and so by both word and deed they condemn and
detract others whenever the occasion arises, seeing the little splinter in
their brother’s eye and failing to consider the wooden beam in their own
eye [Mt. 7:3]; they strain at the other’s gnat and swallow their own camel
[Mt. 23:24].
2.3. And when at times their spiritual directors, their confessors, or
their superiors disapprove their spirit and method of procedure, they feel
that these directors do not understand, or perhaps that this failure to
approve derives from a lack of holiness, since they want these directors to
regard their conduct with esteem and praise. So they quickly search for
some other spiritual advisor more to their liking, someone who will
congratulate them and be impressed by their deeds; and they flee, as they
would death, those who attempt to place them on the safe road by forbidding
these things – and sometimes they even become hostile toward such
spiritual directors. Frequently, in their presumption, they make many
resolutions but accomplish very little. Sometimes they want others to
recognize their spirit and devotion, and as a result occasionally contrive
to make some manifestations of it, such as movements, sighs, and other
ceremonies; sometimes, with the assistance of the devil, they experience
raptures, more often in public than in private, and they are quite pleased,
and often eager, for others to take notice of these.
2.4. Many want to be the favorites of their confessors, and thus they are
consumed by a thousand envies and disquietudes. Embarrassment forbids them
from relating their sins clearly, lest their reputation diminish in their
confessor’s eyes. They confess their sins in the most favorable light so as
to appear better than they actually are, and thus they approach the
confessional to excuse themselves rather than accuse themselves. Sometimes
they confess the evil things they do to a different confessor so that their
own confessor might think they commit no sins at all. Therefore, in their
desire to appear holy, they enjoy relating their good behavior to their
confessor, and in such careful terms that these good deeds appear greater
than they actually are. It would be more humble of them, as we will point
out later,2 to make light of the good they do and to wish that no one,
neither their confessor nor anybody else, should consider it of any
importance at all.
2.5. Sometimes they minimize their faults, and at other times they become
discouraged by them, since they felt they were already saints, and they
become impatient and angry with themselves, which is yet another fault.
2.5.(2). They are often extremely anxious that God remove their faults and
imperfections, but their motive is personal peace rather than God. They
fail to realize that were God to remove their faults they might very well
become more proud and presumptuous.
2.5.(3). They dislike praising anyone else, but they love to receive
praise, and sometimes they even seek it. In this they resemble the foolish
virgins who had to seek oil from others when their own lamps were
extinguished [Mt. 25:8].
2.6. The number of these imperfections is serious in some people and causes
them a good deal of harm. Some have fewer, some have more, and yet others
have little more than the first movements toward them. But there are
scarcely any beginners who at the time of their initial fervor do not fall
victim to some of these imperfections.
“Pride” is stereotypically associated with arrogant and dominating individuals, but is far more versatile than just that.
The first sections of St. John’s Dark Night of the Soul go into much detail about how subtle and complex are the ways of pride working in us.
When it is actually “pride” to “humble” oneself?
With the same tongue we both bless God and curse our fellow man.
But we also curse ourselves. “Self-loathing” usually wins high marks not for usefulness, but as a sign of “humility” but is it? Is it possible we are deceived into hating ourselves – thus hating Christ if we believe that even we ourselves are at least the “least of His brothers”?
Further, does this type of behavior increase the presumption and pride in those who derive satisfaction or even gain worldly power if the “masses of people in the Body” were to hate themselves to the point where their thirst is for something – anything – to tell them they are on the Right Path with God.
I’ll leave it with a quote from chapter 2 of Dark Night of the Soul, about pride.
- Some of the imperfections of pride possessed by beginners.
exercises and undertakings that a certain kind of secret pride is generated
in them that begets a complacency with themselves and their
accomplishments, even though holy works do of their very nature cause
humility. Then they develop a somewhat vain – at times very vain – desire
to speak of spiritual things in others’ presence, and sometimes even to
instruct rather than be instructed; in their hearts they condemn others who
do not seem to have the kind of devotion they would like them to have, and
sometimes they give expression to this criticism like the pharisee who
despised the publican while he boasted and praised God for the good deeds
he himself accomplished [Lk. 18:11-12].1
2.2. The devil, desiring the growth of pride and presumption in these
beginners, often increases their fervor and readiness to perform such
works, and other ones, too. For he is quite aware that all these works and
virtues are not only worthless for them, but even become vices. Some of
these persons become so evil-minded that they do not want anyone except
themselves to appear holy; and so by both word and deed they condemn and
detract others whenever the occasion arises, seeing the little splinter in
their brother’s eye and failing to consider the wooden beam in their own
eye [Mt. 7:3]; they strain at the other’s gnat and swallow their own camel
[Mt. 23:24].
2.3. And when at times their spiritual directors, their confessors, or
their superiors disapprove their spirit and method of procedure, they feel
that these directors do not understand, or perhaps that this failure to
approve derives from a lack of holiness, since they want these directors to
regard their conduct with esteem and praise. So they quickly search for
some other spiritual advisor more to their liking, someone who will
congratulate them and be impressed by their deeds; and they flee, as they
would death, those who attempt to place them on the safe road by forbidding
these things – and sometimes they even become hostile toward such
spiritual directors. Frequently, in their presumption, they make many
resolutions but accomplish very little. Sometimes they want others to
recognize their spirit and devotion, and as a result occasionally contrive
to make some manifestations of it, such as movements, sighs, and other
ceremonies; sometimes, with the assistance of the devil, they experience
raptures, more often in public than in private, and they are quite pleased,
and often eager, for others to take notice of these.
2.4. Many want to be the favorites of their confessors, and thus they are
consumed by a thousand envies and disquietudes. Embarrassment forbids them
from relating their sins clearly, lest their reputation diminish in their
confessor’s eyes. They confess their sins in the most favorable light so as
to appear better than they actually are, and thus they approach the
confessional to excuse themselves rather than accuse themselves. Sometimes
they confess the evil things they do to a different confessor so that their
own confessor might think they commit no sins at all. Therefore, in their
desire to appear holy, they enjoy relating their good behavior to their
confessor, and in such careful terms that these good deeds appear greater
than they actually are. It would be more humble of them, as we will point
out later,2 to make light of the good they do and to wish that no one,
neither their confessor nor anybody else, should consider it of any
importance at all.
2.5. Sometimes they minimize their faults, and at other times they become
discouraged by them, since they felt they were already saints, and they
become impatient and angry with themselves, which is yet another fault.
2.5.(2). They are often extremely anxious that God remove their faults and
imperfections, but their motive is personal peace rather than God. They
fail to realize that were God to remove their faults they might very well
become more proud and presumptuous.
2.5.(3). They dislike praising anyone else, but they love to receive
praise, and sometimes they even seek it. In this they resemble the foolish
virgins who had to seek oil from others when their own lamps were
extinguished [Mt. 25:8].
2.6. The number of these imperfections is serious in some people and causes
them a good deal of harm. Some have fewer, some have more, and yet others
have little more than the first movements toward them. But there are
scarcely any beginners who at the time of their initial fervor do not fall
victim to some of these imperfections.
