When does Mass technically begin?

[RedDeathsMask]

I’m having this debate right now. I always thought that the Mass began with the priest’s blessing, “In name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit; Amen.” However, someone is telling me that Mass begins with the procession and hymn. Which doesn’t make sense to me because: A, when does Mass begin if there is no procession and hymn? B, if Mass ends with the final blessing, then the closing procession and hymn are not part of Mass, and thus are additions that “should” be removed. Just like the “reason” why the Last Gospel and the Leonin prayers were removed. I’m not saying that they should have or should not have removed, I’m just stating the reason that I heard for their removal.

However, I’m open, so I will admit if I’m wrong. Which is why I’m asking this question. Also please provide sources, that way I know there not just opinions.

 

[thistle]

RedDeathsMask:

I’m having this debate right now. I always thought that the Mass began with the priest’s blessing, “In name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit; Amen.” However, someone is telling me that Mass begins with the procession and hymn. Which doesn’t make sense to me because: A, when does Mass begin if there is no procession and hymn? B, if Mass ends with the final blessing, then the closing procession and hymn are not part of Mass, and thus are additions that “should” be removed. Just like the “reason” why the Last Gospel and the Leonin prayers were removed. I’m not saying that they should have or should not have removed, I’m just stating the reason that I heard for their removal.

However, I’m open, so I will admit if I’m wrong. Which is why I’m asking this question. Also please provide sources, that way I know there not just opinions.

I think this might help:

For the start:

GIRM 25. After the people have assembled, the entrance song begins as the priest and the ministers come in. **The purpose of this song is to ** open the celebration, intensify the unity of the gathered people, lead their thoughts to the mystery of the season or feast, and accompany the procession of priest and ministers.

If there is no singing for the entrance, the antiphon in the Missal is recited either by the faithful, by some of them, or by a reader; otherwise it is recited by the priest after the greeting.

For the end:

GIRM 57. The **concluding rite ** consists of:

a. the priest’s greeting and blessing, which on certain days and occasions is expanded and expressed in the prayer over the people or another more solemn formulary;

b. the dismissal of the assembly, which sends each member back to doing good works, while praising and blessing the Lord.

 

[Pentecost2005]

At daily Mass in a local parish, Mass begins when the priest or sacristan rings the bell to indicate that the priest is about to enter the sanctuary.

At St. Patrick’s Cathedral in New York (for example) Mass begins when the lector and cantor take their places and ask the parishioners to join them in singing the entrance hymn.

Basically, Mass begins at the point you are asked to stand up.

 

[CantorRick]

Basically, Mass begins at the point you are asked to stand up.

This is, technically, liturgically and any other " 'ally " the beginning of the Mass.

The end is when you respond with “Thanks be to God” at the sending rite.

The lone varient I can think of is the Triduum during which, from the beginning of the Mass of The Lord’s Supper on Holy Thursday, to the sending forth at the Easter Vigil, constitute one continuous celebration.

Richard

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

RedDeathsMask:

I’m having this debate right now. I always thought that the Mass began with the priest’s blessing, “In name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit; Amen.” However, someone is telling me that Mass begins with the procession and hymn. Which doesn’t make sense to me because: A, when does Mass begin if there is no procession and hymn? B, if Mass ends with the final blessing, then the closing procession and hymn are not part of Mass, and thus are additions that “should” be removed. Just like the “reason” why the Last Gospel and the Leonin prayers were removed. I’m not saying that they should have or should not have removed, I’m just stating the reason that I heard for their removal.

However, I’m open, so I will admit if I’m wrong. Which is why I’m asking this question. Also please provide sources, that way I know there not just opinions.

The Priest here says “Let us begin , In the Name of the Father…”
The Deacon says “The Mass HAS (already) ended…”

The Mass begins with the sign of the cross and ends with the Blessing.

This is strictly my opinion.

 

[muledog]

Br. Rich SFO:

The Priest here says “Let us begin , In the Name of the Father…”
The Deacon says “The Mass HAS (already) ended…”

The Mass begins with the sign of the cross and ends with the Blessing.

This is strictly my opinion.

I guess your priest/pastor is just trying to ad lib a little, but nowhere in the rubrics does it mention expanding the priests opening remarks past “In the Name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit.”

 

[CantorRick]

Br. Rich SFO:

The Priest here says “Let us begin , In the Name of the Father…”
The Deacon says “The Mass HAS (already) ended…”

The Mass begins with the sign of the cross and ends with the Blessing.

This is strictly my opinion.

From the GIRM…

Chapter II, Structure, Elements, And Parts Of The Mass
Section III, Individual Parts Of The Mass
Subsection A. Introductory Rites
Paragraph 24 “The parts preceeding the liturgy of the word, namely, the entrance song, greeting, penitential rite, Kyrie, Gloria, and opening prayer or collect, have the character of a beginning, introduction, and preparation.”

Paragraph 25 “After the people have assembled, the entrance song begins as the priest and the ministers come in. The purpose of this song is to open the celebration, intensify the unity of the gathered people, lead their thoughts to the mystery of the season or feast, and accompany the procession of priest and ministers”

Then in paragraph 26 there’s the veneration of the altar and the sign of the cross isn’t till paragraph 27.

Therefore, at the invitation, hopefully, to stand, join voices and begin the celebration by singing XXYYZ (which, by the way, I know by heart ) the Mass technically begins with the standing (and singing).

Richard

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

CantorRick:

From the GIRM…

Chapter II, Structure, Elements, And Parts Of The Mass
Section III, Individual Parts Of The Mass
Subsection A. Introductory Rites
Paragraph 24 “The parts preceeding the liturgy of the word, namely, the entrance song, greeting, penitential rite, Kyrie, Gloria, and opening prayer or collect, have the character of a beginning, introduction, and preparation.”

Paragraph 25 “After the people have assembled, the entrance song begins as the priest and the ministers come in. The purpose of this song is to open the celebration, intensify the unity of the gathered people, lead their thoughts to the mystery of the season or feast, and accompany the procession of priest and ministers”

Then in paragraph 26 there’s the veneration of the altar and the sign of the cross isn’t till paragraph 27.

Therefore, at the invitation, hopefully, to stand, join voices and begin the celebration by singing XXYYZ (which, by the way, I know by heart ) the Mass technically begins with the standing (and singing).

Richard

In looking for an answer to this question in various documents and resources. I have found that Mass begins with various actions and gestures, depending on how the priest enters and which door he enters through and if music is available, etc. It ends somewhere between the final Blessing and when the priest exists through a door, depending on which door and if a song is sung.

I think it should be defined by an act that is always present in the Mass. Music is not always used and the priest does not always enter from the back.

 

[muledog]

Br. Rich SFO:

The Priest here says “Let us begin , In the Name of the Father…”
The Deacon says “The Mass HAS (already) ended…”

The Mass begins with the sign of the cross and ends with the Blessing.

This is strictly my opinion.

I thought it said “the Mass IS ended…”