When does personhood begin?

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Hi All,

According to Catholic teaching, when does personhood begin? when the egg is fertilised, when the zygote is formed, when the heart starts, when the embryo feels pain, at birth?

Thanks, Dave B
 
Dave_B said:
Hi All,

According to Catholic teaching, when does personhood begin? when the egg is fertilised, when the zygote is formed, when the heart starts, when the embryo feels pain, at birth?

Thanks, Dave B
Click to expand...
From the moment of conception, as early as a genetically distinct being has life. As far as I know it is not formally defined beyond that, and I am not sure that the word ‘personhood’ is used anywhere officially. I imagine all Catholics would accept that the idea of personhood has biological and social aspects, but as far as I am aware the Church considers that an individual acquires the right to life, including to live within the body of its mother, as soon as s/he exists as an individual living thing. You will find lakes of ink and mega-mountains of data written on this question.
 
We don’t know. That’s not something that can be proved scientifically. Therefore, we must assume that it happens at the moment of fertilization, in order to avoid harming a living being that might be a human person.
 
DaveBj said:
We don’t know. That’s not something that can be proved scientifically. Therefore, we must assume that it happens at the moment of fertilization, in order to avoid harming a living being that might be a human person.
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Person-hood is an equivocation created by pro-abortionists to deflect from the fact that abortion kills a human being. (I know of no instance when a pregnant woman gave birth to anything other than a human baby) A new human life begins at conception, a scientific fact taught up until it became politically unpopular. When we change the conversation to speak of “persons” many other issues are raised, including euthanasia for the old and infirm. Stick with life, and don’t let other terms be a distraction.
 
Yes, “personhood” is generally a legal/philosophical term, and it’s generally used by cultures that have a gap where an individual is acknowledged to exist as a human being, but is not considered to possess any innate rights that go along with existence as a human being. Personhood is when the person making the argument feels that an individual has developed enough to be protected and defended as a human being.

In some cultures, personhood does not attach until some time after birth. Those cultures are generally cultures that permit infanticide.
 
tugbaby said:
Person-hood is an equivocation created by pro-abortionists to deflect from the fact that abortion kills a human being. (I know of no instance when a pregnant woman gave birth to anything other than a human baby)
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So would you define a fertilised egg, a zygote as a baby?

I have read that a zygote travels down the fallopian tube dividing to form more cells, and exists for about four days, before it becomes what is termed a blastocyst. After which it becomes an embryo, then a fetus.
 
Dave_B said:
So would you define a fertilised egg, a zygote as a baby?

I have read that a zygote travels down the fallopian tube dividing to form more cells, and exists for about four days, before it becomes what is termed a blastocyst. After which it becomes an embryo, then a fetus.
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It’s always a baby. Those terms are developmental.

Just like we describe a person as newborn/toddler/child/adolescent/adult/elderly, but they are still a human person the whole time. The pre-born child is a human person through all stages of pre-natal development. They have a unique set of human DNA, and a soul.

God Bless
 
A fertilized egg is a baby, and a seed is a tree. The lack of digits and appendages and shape do not detract from the baby’s humanity.
 
Dave_B said:
So would you define a fertilised egg, a zygote as a baby?

I have read that a zygote travels down the fallopian tube dividing to form more cells, and exists for about four days, before it becomes what is termed a blastocyst. After which it becomes an embryo, then a fetus.
Click to expand...
Whatever term is used to describe the unborn, we need to remember that from conception, when it is only 1 cell, it is a human being. It might be small, it might be less developed, but it is still a human being.
 
Dave_B said:
So would you define a fertilised egg, a zygote as a baby?

I have read that a zygote travels down the fallopian tube dividing to form more cells, and exists for about four days, before it becomes what is termed a blastocyst. After which it becomes an embryo, then a fetus.
Click to expand...
Those are scientific words to describe the stages of development. You become a human being, God’s creation, at the moment of conception.
 
Dave_B said:
Hi All,

According to Catholic teaching, when does personhood begin? when the egg is fertilised, when the zygote is formed, when the heart starts, when the embryo feels pain, at birth?

Thanks, Dave B
Click to expand...
 
From conception. You have different human DNA. It is not only theological but scientific…
 
Council of Ephesus: “In the same sort of way a human being, though he be composed of soul and body, is considered to be not dual, but rather one out of two.” [Third Letter of Cyril to Nestorius, read into the acts of the Council.]

Pope Pius XII: “A marvelous vision, which makes us see the human race in the unity of one common origin in God ‘one God and Father of all, Who is above all, and through all, and in us all’ (Ephesians 4:6); in the unity of nature which in every man is equally composed of material body and spiritual, immortal soul….” [Summi Pontificatus, n. 38.]

Pope Pius XII: “The soul is not a person, but the soul, joined to the body, is a person.” [Munificentissimus Deus, n. 32.]

Sacred Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith: “Thus the fruit of human generation, from the first moment of its existence, that is to say from the moment the zygote has formed, demands the unconditional respect that is morally due to the human being in his bodily and spiritual totality. The human being is to be respected and treated as a person from the moment of conception; and therefore from that same moment his rights as a person must be recognized, among which in the first place is the inviolable right of every innocent human being to life.” [Cardinal Ratzinger, CDF, Donum Vitae, I, 1.]

Sacred Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith: “The human being must be respected – as a person – from the very first instant of his existence.” [Cardinal Ratzinger, CDF, Donum Vitae, I, 1.]
 
Peter Kreeft in The Anaborted Socrates, does a marvelous job of using just logic…not theology…to build a very strong case against abortion.

Short book…a dialogue of sorts…

He uses “unique identity” for personhood, and uses genetics to make the case (as on part of about a 6 part argument).

Unique set of intact, complete genetics. “Identity drives development…not the other way around”.
 
midori said:
Yes, “personhood” is generally a legal/philosophical term, and it’s generally used by cultures that have a gap where an individual is acknowledged to exist as a human being, but is not considered to possess any innate rights that go along with existence as a human being. Personhood is when the person making the argument feels that an individual has developed enough to be protected and defended as a human being.

In some cultures, personhood does not attach until some time after birth. Those cultures are generally cultures that permit infanticide.
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👍 Correct, and just to add, many cultures in the past had denied personhood to women, children, non-citizens, people from different races, etc. For most of humanity’s history, personhood was given to a select group of people and denied to most.
 
When do you want it to begin? There is no concrete way to determine personhood. It is completely arbitrary.
 
Dave_B said:
Hi All,

According to Catholic teaching, when does personhood begin? when the egg is fertilised, when the zygote is formed, when the heart starts, when the embryo feels pain, at birth?

Thanks, Dave B
Click to expand...
Properly defined personhood is not defined by development within a species but by membership in the human species. Personhood does not depend on skill, intelligence level or size. An unborn human has the natural inherant capacity to function as a person

A fetus has the 7 signs of life this is a person
 
Some pro abortion people claim that you are not a human person until you have personal awareness but those who are temporarily unconscious, sleeping or reversibly comatose are not personally aware but I doubt pro abortion people think they should be killed?

Who is to say the unborn is not personally aware

A fetus has the 7 signs of life this is a person

Properly defined personhood is not defined by development within a species but by membership in the human species. Personhood does not depend on skill, intelligence level or size. An unborn human has the natural inherant capacity to function as a person
 
The only difference between a zygote and the person reading this post is time and nutrition. Define personhood, and I can point out some elected officials who are missing some of the criteria. :rolleyes:
 
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