When does soul leave body? Specific Scenario

[Michaelangelo]

Point taken, and you’re comments about systems continue to operate is perfectly true, but you seem to be approaching this from a material reductionist standpoint.

I am open for all kind of discussions on this topic. But I think it is vital to start such discussions from a point of objectivity before wandering into the realm of ideas that cannot be checked against reality.

I’m not inclined to try to disabuse you of that notion in this topic, I only want to say that’s not the only take on the question. The fact that some cells continue to carry out some functions even after an event such as brain death does not contradict all of the other takes about judging when a human being ceases to be.

So far we have very little support for the idea that what constitutes the person exist outside the CNS. This combined with the fact that individuals have been brought back from what has previously been considered brain dead, makes the issue of the function of specific cells very relevant.

 

[Wesrock]

This topic was made for a specific question about Church teaching by a Christian who knows a person who has been pronounced brain dead. It’s not just a hypothetical. I think it would be insensitive of me to take the discussion too far sideways unless the OP is comfortable with the topic going in that direction.

EDIT: @Michaelangelo Would you like to continue through private messages?

 

[o_mlly]

The person being declared dead is not necessarily the same thing as the whole system being dead.

OK. I infer the OP is interested in the person’s death rather than the system shut down. The quote below was a bit confusing:

The physician declares a person dead based upon which stage in the dying process the person has been found to be in.

If the person is dead then the person is no longer in the dying process.

 

[Michaelangelo]

Michaelangelo:

The person being declared dead is not necessarily the same thing as the whole system being dead.

OK. I infer the OP is interested in the person’s death rather than the system shut down. The quote below was a bit confusing:

The physician declares a person dead based upon which stage in the dying process the person has been found to be in.

If the person is dead then the person is no longer in the dying process.

I’m sorry if I suck at explaining what I mean.
Legally dead does not necessarily mean clinically dead. To add even more confusion clinically dead does* not* necessarily mean legally dead. As a bonus confusion: we are unveiling more and more about conditions where we previously thought the CNS was irreparable damaged, and thus brain death had occurred, but it turns out that the CNS could be restored back to functionality.

 

[o_mlly]

where we previously thought the CNS was irreparable damaged, and thus brain death had occurred, but it turns out that the CNS could be restored back to functionality.

Just makes you wanna believe in miracles, doesn’t it?

 

[Michaelangelo]

Just makes you wanna believe in miracles, doesn’t it?

Such restorations can be repeated so there’s no need to invoke unverifiable supernatural explanations.
But it was a good try. I’ll give you that.

 

[Tommy999]

Feel free to take latitude with the discussion, if you want. The person in question (a loved one) has since physically died a few days after being pronounced brain dead by the surgeons.

She was being kept physically alive through artificial life support for a couple of days to allow all her immediate family to arrive on site from out-of-town to say their final farewell and to allow for the process of organ donation, since she was an ardent organ donation advocate.

I was mainly interested in knowing the Catholic perspective on whether a person’s immortal soul moves on to judgment, heaven, purgatory, etc when medical tests reveal the person is irreversibly brain dead or does it remain with the body until the heart stops once artificial life support is removed.

Was mainly curious about the soul’s state in this interim period between brain death and heart permanently no longer beating in this kind of scenario, from a Catholic teaching perspective.

 

[Neithan]

Condolences. May she rest in peace.

I think the only completely accurate answer is that we don’t know and exactly how or when the soul and body “separate” has not been revealed.