When ex-Catholics misrepresent Church doctrine

[OneAugustKnight]

The other day 2 ex-Catholics started to complain about the Church. One said that a priest told her she was going to hell when she was a child because her parents weren’t married in the Church. Another was complaining that the Church wouldn’t baptize her baby because her husband needed to get an annulment. I tried to clarify Church teaching because of there were non-Catholics present, but the ex-Catholics kept interrupting me and saying things like “well that’s not what the Church teaches now but that’s what they used to teach and there is no consistency in what the priest’s will tell you anyways and the Church’s teaching are always changing and we wanted to be Catholic but they just made it impossible because they baptize babies with single mothers so why not mine and etc, etc, etc.”

I never got to explain the truth because they kept talking over me and interrupting. I know they won’t listen, but there were probably 6-8 people there that were being misled by what they said. How do you defend the Church in a group of people when one or two won’t let you speak?

 

[po18guy]

1. Keep cool, as difficult as it may be.
2. Calmly explain that, if what they say actually happened, it is not what the Church teaches.
3. Remind them of Christian charity and politeness - they have likely been snagged into some anti-Catholic sect.
4. Invite them to learn more and to avoid gossip about the Church.
5. Ask them if they’ve ever read the catechism.
6. Read it yourself.
7. Come here often. Ask questions.

Christ’s peace be with you.

 

[Roy5]

It is my experience that priests differ among themselves. Some will bend the rules either to accommodate the persons involved or because they don’t believe in those particular rules.

One example. My wife was told by a friend that she had confessed artificial birth control to a priest and he was enraged and warned her never to use it again.

She refused to return to him for confession. The next summer, on vacation, she went to a different church and confessed the same sin to another priest. He didn't seem troubled at all and said she and her husband were allowed to be guided by their consciences.

 Or, another illustration. One priest in this community is quick to participate in interfaith weddings, even if held in halls, parks or Protestant churches. Another priest at another church but in the same community refuses to perform a wedding unless it is in a Catholic church. He will permit a Protestant minister to participate, but barely - allowing him to read a scripture passage or two only. If it's a woman minister he will not permit her to sit up with him behind the altar. 

 This can be quite confusing. It also exposes a major divide within Catholicism, not unlike the so-called liberal-evangelical split among Protestants. 

 I know a couple of priests who strongly disapprove of EWTN. One was quoted as saying that whenever he watches it he goes to bed with a severe headache. He calls it 'retrogressive Catholicism' that keeps the church from moving forward. The other as become especially upset by some of the criticism of Protestants as well as of Masons.

 

[Scoobyshme]

The other day 2 ex-Catholics started to complain about the Church. One said that a priest told her she was going to hell when she was a child because her parents weren’t married in the Church. Another was complaining that the Church wouldn’t baptize her baby because her husband needed to get an annulment. I tried to clarify Church teaching because of there were non-Catholics present, but the ex-Catholics kept interrupting me and saying things like “well that’s not what the Church teaches now but that’s what they used to teach and there is no consistency in what the priest’s will tell you anyways and the Church’s teaching are always changing and we wanted to be Catholic but they just made it impossible because they baptize babies with single mothers so why not mine and etc, etc, etc.”

I never got to explain the truth because they kept talking over me and interrupting. I know they won’t listen, but there were probably 6-8 people there that were being misled by what they said. How do you defend the Church in a group of people when one or two won’t let you speak?

Monica, it’s no wonder they’re “ex-Catholics” because they didn’t know their faith. And how many people claim to be Catholic, but clearly aren’t. I met some pro-abortion folks at a pro-life demonstration once who tried (in vain) to convince me they “used to be Catholic.” They said, “Oh, yeah, we did the beads thing, and…” I immediately knew they were lying.

Sometimes, we just have to shake the dust off our sandals and move on. Let God handle 'em. There’s nothing we can do. Remember, even Jesus couldn’t make any headway in His own hometown. As the old saying goes, “Familiarity breeds contempt.” When people get too familiar with us, we lose our ability to help them sometimes. We don’t have the credibility we need.

On the other hand, I worry sometimes, that other innocent folks are listening, and don’t hear the truth, and may buy into the lies. Those, I try to straighten out on the side.

 

[Julian0404]

I am sure you have heard the pharse: There is no salvation outside the Catholic Church. That refers primarily to Catholics who, after being Catholic and learning the truths of the Catholic church choose to leave the church behind and walk away from the authority, keys and salvation of the sacraments.
It also refers to people who study christianity and through their study discover that the Catholic Church does indeed hold the truth, authority and the keys as given by JESUS, but for other reasons refuse to embrace the faith.
It does not hold for those who through no fault of their own have not heard, or learned the fullness of the Catholic Faith.

The point being, you need to remember the ex-catholics regularly in prayer and at mass and keep them before the HOLY SPIRIT, WHO alone, can bring them back.

 

[po18guy]

It is my experience that priests differ among themselves. Some will bend the rules either to accommodate the persons involved or because they don’t believe in those particular rules.

One example. My wife was told by a friend that she had confessed artificial birth control to a priest and he was enraged and warned her never to use it again.

She refused to return to him for confession. The next summer, on vacation, she went to a different church and confessed the same sin to another priest. He didn't seem troubled at all and said she and her husband were allowed to be guided by their consciences.

 Or, another illustration. One priest in this community is quick to participate in interfaith weddings, even if held in halls, parks or Protestant churches. Another priest at another church but in the same community refuses to perform a wedding unless it is in a Catholic church. He will permit a Protestant minister to participate, but barely - allowing him to read a scripture passage or two only. If it's a woman minister he will not permit her to sit up with him behind the altar. 

 This can be quite confusing. It also exposes a major divide within Catholicism, not unlike the so-called liberal-evangelical split among Protestants. 

 I know a couple of priests who strongly disapprove of EWTN. One was quoted as saying that whenever he watches it he goes to bed with a severe headache. He calls it 'retrogressive Catholicism' that keeps the church from moving forward. The other as become especially upset by some of the criticism of Protestants as well as of Masons.

EWTN is fighting the progressive liberalism that has plagued the Church in recent decades. Someone’s ox is getting gored, huh? This points to the absolute value of EWTN. Truth does not change and so what the Church believes cannot change. As to allowing one’s conscience to inform their actions, Judas did that. First, one must have a properly formed conscience.

 

[Lancer]

 This can be quite confusing. It also **exposes a major divide within Catholicism**

 

[wisdomseeker]

It is my experience that priests differ among themselves. Some will bend the rules either to accommodate the persons involved or because they don’t believe in those particular rules.

One example. My wife was told by a friend that she had confessed artificial birth control to a priest and he was enraged and warned her never to use it again.

She refused to return to him for confession. The next summer, on vacation, she went to a different church and confessed the same sin to another priest. He didn't seem troubled at all and said she and her husband were allowed to be guided by their consciences.

 Or, another illustration. One priest in this community is quick to participate in interfaith weddings, even if held in halls, parks or Protestant churches. Another priest at another church but in the same community refuses to perform a wedding unless it is in a Catholic church. He will permit a Protestant minister to participate, but barely - allowing him to read a scripture passage or two only. If it's a woman minister he will not permit her to sit up with him behind the altar. 

 This can be quite confusing. It also exposes a major divide within Catholicism, not unlike the so-called liberal-evangelical split among Protestants. 

 I know a couple of priests who strongly disapprove of EWTN. One was quoted as saying that whenever he watches it he goes to bed with a severe headache. He calls it 'retrogressive Catholicism' that keeps the church from moving forward. The other as become especially upset by some of the criticism of Protestants as well as of Masons.

what is important here is what the CC teaches and not what a priest believes acording to his opinion. protestant congregations have no teachings. it is up to the individual to decide for themselves. if the priest is doing contrary to what the Church teaches than he is wrong and being disobedient to teh Church. he will have to answer to God for that.

 

[RobbyS]

1. Keep cool, as difficult as it may be.
2. Calmly explain that, if what they say actually happened, it is not what the Church teaches.
3. Remind them of Christian charity and politeness - they have likely been snagged into some anti-Catholic sect.
4. Invite them to learn more and to avoid gossip about the Church.
5. Ask them if they’ve ever read the catechism.
6. Read it yourself.
7. Come here often. Ask questions.

Christ’s peace be with you.

And next time bring a megaphone! And use it if they try talking over you.

 

[RobbyS]

what is important here is what the CC teaches and not what a priest believes acording to his opinion. protestant congregations have no teachings. it is up to the individual to decide for themselves. if the priest is doing contrary to what the Church teaches than he is wrong and being disobedient to teh Church. he will have to answer to God for that.

Hit the nub of it. Sixty years ago, one could get the straight scoop from almost any priest. Since then there have been any number of priests who have acted as though they were little popes and Lord knows how many they have led out of the Church. More than Martin Luther, I dare say. When the CC came out, there were many priests who disparaged it, because it taught things contrary to what was being taught by many liberal priests.

 

[wisdomseeker]

Hit the nub of it. Sixty years ago, one could get the straight scoop from almost any priest. Since then there have been any number of priests who have acted as though they were little popes and Lord knows how many they have led out of the Church. More than Martin Luther, I dare say. When the CC came out, there were many priests who disparaged it, because it taught things contrary to what was being taught by many liberal priests.

Specially now and days. today, one must be carefull who they listen to. they became rebellious and think they own the CC.

 

[illmatic]

I usually end up getting pissed when folk won’t let me speak / ask me questions then answer them. Doesn’t help.

 

[TurboVW]

Specially now and days. today, one must be carefull who they listen to. they became rebellious and think they own the CC.

Don’t forget when disgruntled non-practicing people who still maintain they are Catholic misinterpret the faith.

I’m dating one, and I’m slowly trying to welcome her back. She’s for many left-wing and super-liberal, progressive reforms in the Church, and thus feels that she shouldn’t participate.

She said among other things “There is a huge strain of remnant theology that states if you aren’t with us 100% in the Church, then get out…we’re made to feel like second class citizens, and all we want is just for our community to nurture us…the Church should be members forming bonds with each other and helping each other with their spiritual journey.”

It can be difficult to reason with individuals who think they’re right, and the CC is all wrong, especially if they think they have all the answers. The only thing I could say to her at the time was that there’s many people who still participate in the Church who might have different views. There’s nothing in our Church’s teachings that specifically say you must get out.

 

[Magdalena09]

I understand what your are saying/describing…but I would not describe it as "…a major divide within Catholicism

 

[RobbyS]

Don’t forget when disgruntled non-practicing people who still maintain they are Catholic misinterpret the faith.

I’m dating one, and I’m slowly trying to welcome her back. She’s for many left-wing and super-liberal, progressive reforms in the Church, and thus feels that she shouldn’t participate.

She said among other things “There is a huge strain of remnant theology that states if you aren’t with us 100% in the Church, then get out…we’re made to feel like second class citizens, and all we want is just for our community to nurture us…the Church should be members forming bonds with each other and helping each other with their spiritual journey.”

It can be difficult to reason with individuals who think they’re right, and the CC is all wrong, especially if they think they have all the answers. The only thing I could say to her at the time was that there’s many people who still participate in the Church who might have different views. There’s nothing in our Church’s teachings that specifically say you must get out.

I don’t think we should just tell people to get out. But We have in all honesty to ask them,
are you part of the Church or not? Few people make the demand for 100% compliance, except to the basic teachings of Christianity, which must include, if you call your self a Catholic correction by the Church where the Church differs with others. Fact is that only the relatively few are in full compliance with Church authority, and sad to day, we who try sometimes do not know what the Church teaches because of the failure of both clergy and educated laity to tell us what the truth is. Most priests, for instance, gave up teaching that artificial birth control is wrong sometime around 1970. They saw millions leaving the Church and they telling the truth would make millions more leave. . Their attitude was, I guess, like that of missionaries talking to the German barbarians and, fearful of losing them entire, making any number of concessions to their barbarism. Our Lord’s life, like the history of the Jewish race and of the Church, is that fidelity comes hard for us “chosen ones”, who find it hard to accept that his yoke will be easy.

 

[Big_Dummy]

You should grant them the grace that they have been hurt by the church with a “I feel your pain, what steps have you been taking to heal that hurt? And, how can I pray for you?” Often, listening rather than trying to “correct” gets you a hearing with everyone in the room without fighting.

 

[TurboVW]

You should grant them the grace that they have been hurt by the church with a “I feel your pain, what steps have you been taking to heal that hurt? And, how can I pray for you?” Often, listening rather than trying to “correct” gets you a hearing with everyone in the room without fighting.

But be careful by simply just listening. I’ve done a lot of listening in my own personal experiences with this. At certain points you’ll have to show that there is right and wrong within interpretation of Catholic teachings and beliefs. For too long, many maintain they know better than an entire church.

 

[Saint_Macarius]

I know a couple of priests who strongly disapprove of EWTN.

Although I love EWTN programing, one of my major concerns with the network is that it is too Catholic. What I mean by that is how we Catholics tend to be so definite in what we know is truth (and thank God for it!). I never realized this until one of my protestant friends pointed it out to me. Us Catholics (and also the Orthodox churches I might add too) can sometimes sound like lawyers sometimes, and this can be a turn off to many non-Catholics. The Calvanists one sees on television seem to be very good at dumbing down theology to the average ignorant layman and thus seem more approachable than say Scott Hahn.
That being said, I don’t think I would want to change EWTN. I just don’t think EWTN is the best starting place for (at least initial) evangelization.

 

[Magdalena09]

Roy5;7160587:

I know a couple of priests who strongly disapprove of EWTN.

Although I love EWTN programing, one of my major concerns with the network is that it is too Catholic. What I mean by that is how we Catholics tend to be so definite in what we know is truth (and thank God for it!). I never realized this until one of my protestant friends pointed it out to me. Us Catholics (and also the Orthodox churches I might add too) can sometimes sound like lawyers sometimes, and this can be a turn off to many non-Catholics. The Calvanists one sees on television seem to be very good at dumbing down theology to the average ignorant layman and thus seem more approachable than say Scott Hahn.
That being said, I don’t think I would want to change EWTN. I just don’t think EWTN is the best starting place for (at least initial) evangelization.

I acknowledge your point, but I think we do a disservice to the masses when we say they need dumbed-down theology. I know I have come across far more dumbed-down versions of things theological that are simplified to the point of being in error or incredibly misleading, thus defeating the purpose. It’s a hard balance to find.

Anyway–I just wanted to comment to say that EWTN was incredibly instrumental in my conversion. I watched it for probably a full two years, all the time, before joining RCIA. So it holds a special place in my heart.

 

[Roy5]

Speaking of Scott Hahn, my own impression is that he is a motor-mouth! I guess I have a problem with anyone who has such ready and precise answers to complex ultimate questions. Over the years I have come to the conclusion that we need to walk by faith and not by knowledge - as scripture says. So when anyone is so dogmatic as Hahn seems to me, I turn elswhere.
That also is true sometimes of the Women of Grace program - well, some of its guests. The ranting against the Masons, for example, is silly and outdated. We can disagree with the Masons but to depict them as some sort of demonic force just increases suspicion of Catholicism. Sounds like paranoia.