When God spoke to people in the Old Testamant, did He really "speak"?

[catholic1seeks]

I guess the answer is obvious - yes? But, would God have His own voice? It just seems strange that God always seems to be talking in the Old Testament. Is it truly an oral, vocal, voice?

Is there a specific verse in the Bible that expresses God literally talking?

 

[Robbinson]

I guess the answer is obvious - yes? But, would God have His own voice? It just seems strange that God always seems to be talking in the Old Testament. Is it truly an oral, vocal, voice?

Is there a specific verse in the Bible that expresses God literally talking?

I believe so - but it varies. At times, God is recorded as having spoke directly to Moses - at times God spoke to prophtets through dreams and at times through visions. At times, God spoke through angels physically present and conversing with man. In the New Testatment, God spoke directly through His Word taking the form of flesh in Jesus Christ.

Blessings,

Brian

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

I guess the answer is obvious - yes? But, would God have His own voice? It just seems strange that God always seems to be talking in the Old Testament. Is it truly an oral, vocal, voice?

Is there a specific verse in the Bible that expresses God literally talking?

Answer - no.​

Many verses say something such as:

• And the Lord spoke to X, saying

• but they don’t imply that God has a larynx, lips or tongue. Such expressions presuppose that God has a larynx & a human physiology, & that He exists in the same manner as we do: that he is as bound by time & space. Men, being human, do have human physiologies, & the Bible would be useless for us us if it were not written in ways we could understand. So God is represented as though He were a man. Such expressions are a concession to human limitations - they are metaphorical, or analogous, or figurative in some other way. They mean that X received some kind of communication from God; not God was like X in having a human body. There may have been a time when the Israelites believed He had a body, but if they did hold such a belief it is hard to recover its traces.

There are many passages which can guard us against supposing God to be a man, such as the imagery which says

• the Lord roars from Zion
• God is my Rock
• [He] fill heaven and earth
  [*]the Lord is my Light and my Salvation
  [*][God] is a consuming fire
  [*]and so on
  

• as a result, “The Lord is a great King” is true, without being the only truth about God; He is not a “giant in the sky”. He is described as a king to express His power - not because He sits on a throne as a human king might. He cannot be described - God is not even “He”; that also limits God. “God is not my Rock” is a metaphorical way of expressing His total trustworthiness & unfailing strength - it does not mean God is of interest to a geologist. Metaphor is pictorial, often vividly so; & Hebrew thought was pictorial - so the OT is full of metaphors.

 

[buffalo]

Answer - no.​

Many verses say something such as:

• And the Lord spoke to X, saying

• but they don’t imply that God has a larynx, lips or tongue. Such expressions presuppose that God has a larynx & a human physiology, & that He exists in the same manner as we do: that he is as bound by time & space. Men, being human, do have human physiologies, & the Bible would be useless for us us if it were not written in ways we could understand. So God is represented as though He were a man. Such expressions are a concession to human limitations - they are metaphorical, or analogous, or figurative in some other way. They mean that X received some kind of communication from God; not God was like X in having a human body. There may have been a time when the Israelites believed He had a body, but if they did hold such a belief it is hard to recover its traces.

There are many passages which can guard us against supposing God to be a man, such as the imagery which says

• the Lord roars from Zion
• God is my Rock
• [He] fill heaven and earth
  [*]the Lord is my Light and my Salvation
  [*][God] is a consuming fire
  [*]and so on
  

• as a result, “The Lord is a great King” is true, without being the only truth about God; He is not a “giant in the sky”. He is described as a king to express His power - not because He sits on a throne as a human king might. He cannot be described - God is not even “He”; that also limits God. “God is not my Rock” is a metaphorical way of expressing His total trustworthiness & unfailing strength - it does not mean God is of interest to a geologist. Metaphor is pictorial, often vividly so; & Hebrew thought was pictorial - so the OT is full of metaphors.

God who created the whole universe could not vibrate molecules?

 

[Spirithound]

Is it truly an oral, vocal, voice?

God who created the whole universe could not vibrate molecules?

Buffalo, that’s not what Gottle said. He said God didn’t have a larynx, lips and tongue, the human speech organs. Certainly He could have vibrated molecules to make audible sound, but that’s again not precisely what C1S asked. It seems to me that there are certain times when God caused audible, intelligible sound, and there are others when it was an interior voice. For example, at the base of Mt. Sinai, the Israelites heard a thunderous sound. Similarly at Jesus’ baptism, audible voice. In 1Samuel 3:1-21, however, the voice of God appears to be only for Samuel.

 

[juliamajor]

God who created the whole universe could not vibrate molecules?/QUOTEGod is pure Spirit_ or do you disagree with the Church?

 

[buffalo]

buffalo;4127284:

God who created the whole universe could not vibrate molecules?[/QUOTEGod is pure Spirit_ or do you disagree with the Church?

What happened during the Transfiguration? And Jesus’ baptism in the Jordan?

[/quote]

 

[juliamajor]

juliamajor;4131343:

What happened during the Transfiguration? And Jesus’ baptism in the Jordan?

Was it an ‘oral’ voice? When people see visions are they ‘hearing’ with their ears? Or are they hearing it in there souls?In Western culture we have a huge prejudice against non- tangible, non- oral communications. .Since God is Spirit wouldn’t He communicate to the spirit in us? When you hear with your ears- you can miss interpret what you hear .if with your spirit- there is no misunderstanding- a more efficient way to communicate then mere speech.

 

[buffalo]

buffalo;4132174:

Was it an ‘oral’ voice? When people see visions are they ‘hearing’ with their ears? Or are they hearing it in there souls?In Western culture we have a huge prejudice against non- tangible, non- oral communications. .Since God is Spirit wouldn’t He communicate to the spirit in us? When you hear with your ears- you can miss interpret what you hear .if with your spirit- there is no misunderstanding- a more efficient way to communicate then mere speech.

Yes, He could have communicated orally or directly to our brain in some fashion. He could have done both. No reason really to exclude one or the other.

Here is says the voice came from a cloud -

And there was a cloud overshadowing them: and a voice came out of the cloud, saying: This is my most beloved son; hear ye him. 7

 

[juliamajor]

I’m quite aware of the scripture-it doesn’t make it clearer if it were physical(doubtful) since pure Spirit has no voice-since he has no vocal cords -or an internal voice…

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

God who created the whole universe could not vibrate molecules?

*Sorry *? - really too ​

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

juliamajor;4133173:

Yes, He could have communicated orally or directly to our brain in some fashion. He could have done both. No reason really to exclude one or the other.

Here is says the voice came from a cloud -

And there was a cloud overshadowing them: and a voice came out of the cloud, saying: This is my most beloved son; hear ye him. 7

To describe more than human entities, we have to use human words - they are all we have. Since entities which are more than human are not human, human words are going to make them seem more human than they are. The contrasting & incompatible “models” for God help us to remember that God is not a man; that God is the God Who is beyond all models & all words, that He is ineffable ​

The cloud itself is a piece of imagery - it is full of associations:

• the cherubim-throne of Jehovah
• the clouds which are His Chariot
• the Chariot-visions in Ezekiel 1 & 10
• the storm-clouds which He “rides”
• the cherub-attendants of Jehovah on the ark of the covenant
• the cherub-attendants of Jehovah on the curtains of the Temple
• the Presence of God with His People
• the Cloud that Ezekiel in his vision saw leaving the Temple
• the Cloud that filled the Temple so that the priests could not stand to minister
• the Cloud of the Shekinah
• the Cloud that led the Israelites at the Exodus
• the “thick darkness” in which Jehovah dwells
• the Cloud at the Ascension
  That one piece of imagery says more about Christ & His Work & Who He is than 10,000 words.

ISTM there is a connection with the Baptism narratives: what the Evangelists make of them - & of other shared incidents - is very helpful in showing what the theology of each Evangelist (or of the churches & traditions they reflected) was.