When Greed & Lust is a Good thing.

[AgnosTheist]

Main Entry: **lust **
1obsolete a: pleasure, delight b: personal inclination : wish
2: usu. intense or unbridled sexual desire : lasciviousness
3 a: an intense longing : craving b: enthusiasm, eagerness
webster.com/dictionary/lust

Main Entry: greed
*: a selfish and excessive desire for more of something (as money) than is needed *
webster.com/dictionary/greed

Think about it, is greed & lust always bad? Or is there a benevolent reason why greed & lust remains to be an inherent human trait?

 

[LilyM]

The very definition of greed and lust, for example as ‘selfish or excessive’ - gives the lie to your idea.

Selfishness by definition isn’t good, neither is lust, neither is excessiveness in any area.

If a desire (for money, food, sex or anything else) exists to a level where it IS good, then quite simply it isn’t greed or lust. It’s self-esteem, it’s healthy and well-ordered sexuality, it’s healthy and well-ordered eating habits, a healthy and well-ordered desire for financial wellbeing, and so on and so forth.

 

[ribozyme]

Main Entry: **lust **
1obsolete a: pleasure, delight b: personal inclination : wish
2: usu. intense or unbridled sexual desire : lasciviousness
3 a: an intense longing : craving b: enthusiasm, eagerness
webster.com/dictionary/lust

Main Entry: greed
*: a selfish and excessive desire for more of something (as money) than is needed *
webster.com/dictionary/greed

Think about it, is greed & lust always bad? Or is there a benevolent reason why greed & lust remains to be an inherent human trait?

It is only bad if it has negative consequences on people. However, since those traits cause unnecessary human conflict and suffering, people will naturally see them as a vice.

BTW, why should certain traits about human nature be deem sarcosanct such as are proclivity for selfishness and competition?

Peter Singer rejects this notion and he advocates genetic engineering to reduce these traits (and to augment other traits of course).

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

Main Entry: **lust **1obsolete a: pleasure, delight b: personal inclination : wish

2: usu. intense or unbridled sexual desire : lasciviousness

3 a: an intense longing : craving b: enthusiasm, eagerness webster.com/dictionary/lust

Main Entry: greed *: a selfish and excessive desire for more of something (as money) than is needed *webster.com/dictionary/greed

Think about it, is greed & lust always bad? Or is there a benevolent reason why greed & lust remains to be an inherent human trait?

Greed is apt to be used for two different sins:​

• 1. Gluttony
• 1. Avarice
     Either way, greed & lust are always evil; they always lead to the disintegration of personality, because they are both unnatural - ways of behaving that undermine the integrity of our nature as human beings.

If we want to be happy, love is the only way, because it is intrinsically self-giving - unlike sin, which is always anti-social because it is intrinsically selfish. Lust, gluttony & avarice are certainly that.

 

[whatevergirl]

I would say they most likely are always going to lead to something…‘bad’ and immoral, because greed and lust face a person inward. Two very self centered words and concepts. You cannot be greedy for another, or lust on behalf of someone else. lol

Greed and lust are spawned from self centeredness.

 

[AndyF]

AgnosTheist:

Not only that, if all sexual expression are the offspring of the intrinsic purpose of sex(wish?), that is that they assist the purpose of obtaining the ultimate end purpose in orientation to probagate, then the offspring such as combing one’s hair, applying lipstick,winking, applying rouge,etc are also lustful and mortal.

I find it intriguing the Church can separate the offspring(venial) and parent(mortal) in culpability. Political correctness must be addressed I suppose.

AndyF

 

[AgnosTheist]

Lust is easier to deal with. So lets start with that.

Morally speaking, Lust is good between a married couple. It keeps the sex life alive! Agree?

 

[ElizabethAnne]

Lust is easier to deal with. So lets start with that.

Morally speaking, Lust is good between a married couple. It keeps the sex life alive! Agree?

Disagree. Lust is about using another for ones own gratification. It leads to objectifying the other. It is not love and crushes intimacy.

 

[davidv]

Lust is easier to deal with. So lets start with that.

Morally speaking, Lust is good between a married couple. It keeps the sex life alive! Agree?

No. Lust objectifies the partner and eventual makes them feel used. True love, sacrificial self-giving, keeps the sex life alive.

 

[AgnosTheist]

Disagree. Lust is about using another for ones own gratification. It leads to objectifying the other. It is not love and crushes intimacy.

a married life without sexual attraction to your spouse. eeek. i wonder how your marriages work. maybe its like what some old ladies say, there will come a time you & your spouse would just be like brothers & sisters.

mine, love & lust is a perfect combination. marriage is strong since 1997.

 

[AndyF]

Lust is easier to deal with. So lets start with that.

Morally speaking, Lust is good between a married couple. It keeps the sex life alive! Agree?

Of course.

I see lust as nature’s way of having creatures probagate. It comes from nature which comes from God. After a chemical trigger, it fires neurons to drive the creature to the sexual act. Religion needs to demonify, or at least downplay it’s function in order to present the concept of devine origin and the destiny of the creature, and to facilitate the concept of Sacramental purpose.

Incidentally as an aside, sexual sins are the only type that targets a specific creature at a specific time, something that the Church is reluctant to address in the subject of selective testing and blanket temptation.

On the playing field of arbitrary sinning, with this factor being a reality, this means the probability of mature creatures being candidates for the abys are more likely, and is a mathematical reality, and in this theoretical equally loved world, that should never be true.

Equally alarming and proving this point, the Blessed Mother stated that there were more people in hell for sins of the flesh than for any other, this later to occur to us.

I would like to see compensatory dispensation become implemented for adults that recognizes this imbalance.

AndyF

 

[AlaAnnie]

Agnos, in your love and lust, is your desire to please yourself or is your desire to please your spouse? The truth lies in the answer.

 

[AgnosTheist]

Agnos, in your love and lust, is your desire to please yourself or is your desire to please your spouse? The truth lies in the answer.

My Love-Lust pleases both me & my wife. The same works with her towards me.

Technically speaking, Lust alone is all about personal desires. Its all about pleasing yourself. Its all about the ‘me’.

Practically speaking, Lust within a relationship pleases both spouse. It pleases one that the other has an intense sexual desire for the other.

Love works to moderate the Lust. If the other mate is not in the mood, the aroused spouse should respect that and control his/her cravings. Though the other mate still appreciates the fact that he/she is still desirable sexually.

 

[AgnosTheist]

I see lust as nature’s way of having creatures probagate.

exactly!

Equally alarming and proving this point, the Blessed Mother stated that there were more people in hell for sins of the flesh than for any other, this later to occur to us.

that is the negative trait of lust. uncontrolled lust leads to the ruin of lives.

 

[AlaAnnie]

Agnos - then I guess we’re arguing semantics. Unless it’s purely selfish, then I wouldn’t call it lust, but something else - desire, human instinct, etc.

 

[AgnosTheist]

Agnos - then I guess we’re arguing semantics.

perhaps. i dont think the catholic church itself condemns lust as a whole:

*The wrongfulness of lust is reducible to this: that venereal satisfaction is sought for either outside wedlock or, at any rate, in a manner which is contrary to the laws that govern marital intercourse. Every such criminal indulgence is a mortal sin, provided of course, it be voluntary in itself and fully deliberate. This is the testimony of St. Paul in the Epistle to the Galatians, v. 19: *

newadvent.org/cathen/09438a.htm

doesnt that suggest that lust is only wrong if its outside of marriage or if it breaks the laws of the land?

Here is webster’s definition: “intense or unbridled sexual desire”

 

[davidv]

perhaps. i dont think the catholic church itself condemns lust as a whole:

The wrongfulness of lust is reducible to this: that venereal satisfaction is sought for either outside wedlock or, at any rate, in a manner which is contrary to the laws that govern marital intercourse. Every such criminal indulgence is a mortal sin, provided of course, it be voluntary in itself and fully deliberate. This is the testimony of St. Paul in the Epistle to the Galatians, v. 19: newadvent.org/cathen/09438a.htm

doesnt that suggest that lust is only wrong if its outside of marriage or if it breaks the laws of the land?

No it doesn’t. It just points to essence of lust that makes lust sinful. This statement does not define more than one thing called lust.

 

[Jestocost]

I don’t think that Webster’s definition of lust is quite the same as the Church’s, at least not as I understand it. Lust is not equal to sexual desire or even strong sexual desire. Both of those can be quite good things. Lust is the objectifying of another individual for your own selfish sexual pleasure. That is never good, married or not.

I believe it was JPII who said that a man who lusts after his wife commits adultery against her. If you lust after your wife you are degrading and dehumanizing her. That cannot add up to a better marriage or even a better sex life. Good sex has mutual respect by both partners. Lustful, selfish, degrading sex, quickly degenerates into a simple biological act, like using the restroom.

 

[ricmat]

Practically speaking, Lust within a relationship pleases both spouse. It pleases one that the other has an intense sexual desire for the other.

Even within marriage, lust is a sin, according to the Church.

Love is the total self-giving of someone to their spouse. You see your spouse as a person to be loved, and you give everything. This is the action of love within the Holy Trinity, and the kind of love we are called to emulate in our spousal relationship (as a sort of practice session for Heaven).

Lust has only to do with taking, not giving. Instead of seeing your spouse’s person as someone to love, you see their body as something (an object) you can use to satisfy your own desires.

Theology of the Body goes into this in quite a bit of detail, and I recommend “Theology of the Body for Beginners” by Christopher West for a quick (but mind-blowing) read.

 

[ElizabethAnne]

a married life without sexual attraction to your spouse. eeek. i wonder how your marriages work. maybe its like what some old ladies say, there will come a time you & your spouse would just be like brothers & sisters.

mine, love & lust is a perfect combination. marriage is strong since 1997.

Who said anything about sexual attraction? It is not the same as lust.