When is a baptism not a baptism?

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First post here, so hope I’ve got the ettiquette right. I have a question:

I’m going to be starting an RCIA course in September, after having spent a number of years in the Anglican church, where I was confirmed. I know that one doesn’t count and I’ll be re-confirmed at Easter if everything goes well.

However, I was baptised by an independent evangelical church and wasn’t annointed at baptism. Does that mean I’ll have to be baptised as well? Is conditional baptism something RCs do?
 
I went through the RCIA and was confirmed this past Easter. They told us that any baptism is a valid one (be it in a Methodist church, Baptist church, etc.).

They pointed out that baptizing again would only be saying that the first one wasn’t valid when in all actuality it was. I’m not sure about the annointing issue. I think as long as water was involved you are good to go. I was baptized Catholic when I was a few weeks old, so I didn’t have this issue.

Either way, if your baptism wasn’t valid your RCIA teacher will definitely let you know. 😉
 
To answer your question: a baptism is not a baptism when it is not done in accordance with the Scriptures. One must be baptized “in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit/Ghost” with water and the intention to do what the Church does when She baptized. The latter is presumed when the other actions are taken.

And, yes, if there is a question about the validity of your previous baptism you will probably be baptized conditionally.

Deacon Ed
 
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Lorrie:
I went through the RCIA and was confirmed this past Easter. They told us that any baptism is a valid one (be it in a Methodist church, Baptist church, etc.).
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This is a very broad statement and generally inaccurate.

The RCIA Rite says that each individual Baptism must be carefully look at and it determined if it needs a more indepth investigation of validity. So no were not supposed to be rubber stamping Baptisms, but carefully looking at them.
 
Deacon Ed:
One must be baptized “in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit/Ghost” with water and the intention to do what the Church does when She baptized. The latter is presumed when the other actions are taken.

And, yes, if there is a question about the validity of your previous baptism you will probably be baptized conditionally.

Deacon Ed
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Conditional baptism is something that appeals to me: I don’t want to make a negative declaration as regards the previous rite I went through, but I also want to be sure I am baptised!

Obviously, this is something I’ll discuss with the retired priest who runs the RCIA course I’ll do, but how does conditional baptism work? I know in the Anglican church we never do conditional baptisms in the context of a “normal” service as they’re confusing to congregations (we normally do them with just a priest, candidate, sponsor and maybe a couple of witnesses). Would a conditional baptism be done at the Easter Vigil with the catechumens, or got out of the way beforehand?

Also, when you say that the baptism must be “In the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit / Ghost”, does that mean that those words (in some language) must be said?
 
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ACOL-ite:
Conditional baptism is something that appeals to me: I don’t want to make a negative declaration as regards the previous rite I went through, but I also want to be sure I am baptised!

Obviously, this is something I’ll discuss with the retired priest who runs the RCIA course I’ll do, but how does conditional baptism work? I know in the Anglican church we never do conditional baptisms in the context of a “normal” service as they’re confusing to congregations (we normally do them with just a priest, candidate, sponsor and maybe a couple of witnesses). Would a conditional baptism be done at the Easter Vigil with the catechumens, or got out of the way beforehand?

Also, when you say that the baptism must be “In the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit / Ghost”, does that mean that those words (in some language) must be said?
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I should probably not answer you since your question was directed to Deacon.

But yes Conditional Baptism should be done privately outside of a public liturgy and only if it is determined to be necessary after an investigation. It should be done ASAP, sooner than later.

Yes those words must be spoken at the time the water is being poured. I have seen video of Baptisms from mainline Protestant communities that had the person standing in a pool of water. the minister said the proper words and then dunked the person.

Not valid to say the words completely and then pour or dunk.
 
Br. Rich is correct in that conditional baptisms are normally not done in public. That’s not to say it cannot be done that way. The priest (since we’re talking about someone over seven deacons should not be the one baptizing) will say quietly, “If you are not baptized…” and then aloud “I baptize you…”

Yes, those words (in any language) must be said/signed while the water flows over the head of the one being baptized. The preferred method of baptism today is immersion, but infusion (pouring) is also acceptable.

Deacon Ed
 
Deacon Ed:
Br. Rich is correct in that conditional baptisms are normally not done in public. That’s not to say it cannot be done that way. The priest (since we’re talking about someone over seven deacons should not be the one baptizing) will say quietly, “If you are not baptized…” and then aloud “I baptize you…”

Yes, those words (in any language) must be said/signed while the water flows over the head of the one being baptized. The preferred method of baptism today is immersion, but infusion (pouring) is also acceptable.

Deacon Ed
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In the Latin Rite, baptism by immersion looks Protestant. I have seen, both in pictures and once in person, Jacuzzi-like baptismal pools.

I was baptized conditionally by infusion. It was done it Latin.
 
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GoLatin:
In the Latin Rite, baptism by immersion looks Protestant. I have seen, both in pictures and once in person, Jacuzzi-like baptismal pools.

I was baptized conditionally by infusion. It was done it Latin.
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Make that twice in person.

I went to the same church twice, that had a Jacuzzi pool. It looked awful!
 
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GoLatin:
Make that twice in person.

I went to the same church twice, that had a Jacuzzi pool. It looked awful!
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But we have to be careful that we don’t push our personal preferences as if they were the Church’s preferences. As I said, the nice thing about being Catholic is that we have something for everybody!

Deacon Ed
 
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ACOL-ite:
First post here, so hope I’ve got the ettiquette right. I have a question:

I’m going to be starting an RCIA course in September, after having spent a number of years in the Anglican church, where I was confirmed. I know that one doesn’t count and I’ll be re-confirmed at Easter if everything goes well.

However, I was baptised by an independent evangelical church and wasn’t annointed at baptism. Does that mean I’ll have to be baptised as well? Is conditional baptism something RCs do?
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Conditional baptism has been done, but only where there is a question as to the validity. The minimal valid form is baptism with water in the trinitarian formula. If you were baptized in most any christian denomination, your baptism will probably be seen as valid.
 
Br. Rich SFO:
This is a very broad statement and generally inaccurate.

The RCIA Rite says that each individual Baptism must be carefully look at and it determined if it needs a more indepth investigation of validity. So no were not supposed to be rubber stamping Baptisms, but carefully looking at them.
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All I know is what I was told, Captain.
 
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ACOL-ite:
First post here, so hope I’ve got the ettiquette right. I have a question:

I’m going to be starting an RCIA course in September, after having spent a number of years in the Anglican church, where I was confirmed. I know that one doesn’t count and I’ll be re-confirmed at Easter if everything goes well.

However, I was baptised by an independent evangelical church and wasn’t annointed at baptism. Does that mean I’ll have to be baptised as well? Is conditional baptism something RCs do?
Click to expand...
you will get a letter or certificate confirming your baptism, which will give the name of the Church and hopefully the denomination. You will give this to your RCIA director or pastor, who will ascertain from diocesan guidelines whether this was in fact a valid baptism. If this denomination is known to baptize with the trinitarian formula, with water, with the intent to baptize, the baptism would be valid. If not, you will receive a conditional baptism, ideally at some time before your Confirmation in a private ceremony.
 
I believe that t if you were baptised with water and using the Trinitarian formula it would be valid. Ask your priest. Oh and by the way welcome home!
Mike
 
Thanks, Mike! And thanks for all your helpful responses. I feel now that a private conditional baptism before the confirmation at the ceremony with all the other candidates (the parish normally has around a dozen each year) would put my mind at rest: all feelings I’ll talk to Father about, but nice to be able to express them better thanks to this thread.

I find it interesting that immersion is the prefered form: sort of cute that this has more in common with my evo beginnings than my recent High Anglican years!

I was also interested in what you said about deacons only being meant to baptize those under seven. We don’t have any non-priestly deacons at our parish, so it’s not an issue, but what’s the justification for this?
 
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ACOL-ite:
I was also interested in what you said about deacons only being meant to baptize those under seven. We don’t have any non-priestly deacons at our parish, so it’s not an issue, but what’s the justification for this?
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The national statues for the RCIA now require that when an adult (there are only infants and adults in the Church) is baptized he or she should also be confirmed and given the Eucharist. Since deacons can’t confirm it follows that deacons should not baptize those over seven.

Deacon Ed
 
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