When is a child Catholic?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Petermn
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
P

Petermn

Guest
Is it the case that a child is generally considered to be Catholic if the mother is Confirmed Catholic but not necessarily the father?
Or does a child have to be Baptised at a Catholic Church before considered Catholic?
Another Combination:
May a child be considered Catholic if the mother is Confirmed Catholic but the child is Baptised at an Anglican Church?

Hope you can clarify…
 
the child must be baptized to be Catholic. he is baptized into the rite of the Father, if the father is Catholic (so a child born to a mother baptized in the Latin rite, and a father in the Byzantine, would be baptized in the Byzantine rite, even if the ceremony is performed by a Latin rite priest). If the father is not Catholic the child is baptized in the mother’s rite. if the child was baptized Anglican (or Lutheran, or any other valid non-Catholic baptism) he or she must be prepared for confirmation and first communion and receive them in the Catholic Church to become Catholic.
 
Thank you Puzzle…

Just to clarify - - - Could a child with Catholic mum and Angican dad who was Baptised at an Angican Church be understood to be Catholic if the intentions of the parents was to eventually put the child through the process of 1st Holy Communion and Confirmation into the Catholic Church?

In other words would the parents be correct in believing that the child was within the Catholic faith during the time between Baptism and 1st Holy Communion?

Thanks
 
Petermn said:
Thank you Puzzle…

Just to clarify - - - Could a child with Catholic mum and Angican dad who was Baptised at an Angican Church be understood to be Catholic if the intentions of the parents was to eventually put the child through the process of 1st Holy Communion and Confirmation into the Catholic Church?

In other words would the parents be correct in believing that the child was within the Catholic faith during the time between Baptism and 1st Holy Communion?

Thanks
Click to expand...
No. The child in the scenario you describe is not Catholic. The child is Anglican.

The child would *become *Catholic when they are received into the Catholic Church or are formally enrolled in the process to become Catholic. When and how this takes place depends upon several factors including age and previous catechesis.
 
Thanks Ike

I understood that Baptism was a generic Christian process to be later confirmed by denomination but looks like thats not the case.
 
1ke said:
No. The child in the scenario you describe is not Catholic. The child is Anglican.

The child would *become *Catholic when they are received into the Catholic Church or are formally enrolled in the process to become Catholic. When and how this takes place depends upon several factors including age and previous catechesis.
Click to expand...
1ke, you are usually correct and well informed, but I think this is one of the rare occasions when you missed it.

Please correct me if I am wrong, but I thought that Baptism is the initial sacrament. All people who are baptized, no matter what church they were baptized in, become part of the mystical Body of Christ, which is represented on Earth by the Catholic Church. Therefore all people who are baptized are automatically Catholic.

It is the choices they make later that will determine whether they remain Catholic.
 
rpp said:
Therefore all people who are baptized are automatically Catholic.

It is the choices they make later that will determine whether they remain Catholic.
Click to expand...
This is not correct.

All persons who are baptized (in the Trinitarian formula) are Christians. Not all Christians are Catholics. The Church teaches that baptized non-Catholics are imperfectly united to the Catholic Church:

CCC 1271 Baptism constitutes the foundation of communion among all Christians, including those who are not yet in full communion with the Catholic Church: “For men who believe in Christ and have been properly baptized are put in some, though imperfect, communion with the Catholic Church. Justified by faith in Baptism, [they] are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers by the children of the Catholic Church.”

The Church recognizes as Catholic-- and therefore under the jurisdiction of the Bishop and Canon Law-- only those persons who are baptized in the Catholic Church or who enter full communionn with the Catholic Church by a formal act:

Can. 11 Merely ecclesiastical laws bind those who have been baptized in the Catholic Church or received into it, possess the efficient use of reason, and, unless the law expressly provides otherwise, have completed seven years of age.
 
rpp said:
1ke, you are usually correct and well informed, but I think this is one of the rare occasions when you missed it.

Please correct me if I am wrong, but I thought that Baptism is the initial sacrament. All people who are baptized, no matter what church they were baptized in, become part of the mystical Body of Christ, which is represented on Earth by the Catholic Church. Therefore all people who are baptized are automatically Catholic.

It is the choices they make later that will determine whether they remain Catholic.
Click to expand...
No. If the child was baptized in the Anglican church, then his parents promised to raise him in the Anglican faith, and he is considered to be a member of the Anglican Church.

A baptized Christian can convert to the Catholic faith without being rebaptized, but he is initially the religion of the church where he was originally baptized, until he makes a personal decision to convert to the Catholic faith, after reaching the age of reason.

Edited to add: I am under the impression that these children would be required to attend RCIC before being admitted to the Sacraments of Confirmation and First Holy Communion. They wouldn’t be allowed to receive these Sacraments with their same-age peers in the Catholic Church, even if they go to Catholic school.
 
jmcrae said:
Edited to add: I am under the impression that these children would be required to attend RCIC before being admitted to the Sacraments of Confirmation and First Holy Communion. They wouldn’t be allowed to receive these Sacraments with their same-age peers in the Catholic Church, even if they go to Catholic school.
Click to expand...
Yes, this would be true if they are over the age of reason (7).

If they are under the age of reason, I am not quite sure what procedure is used to bring the kids into full communion.
 
Petermn said:
Thank you Puzzle…

Just to clarify - - - Could a child with Catholic mum and Angican dad who was Baptised at an Angican Church be understood to be Catholic if the intentions of the parents was to eventually put the child through the process of 1st Holy Communion and Confirmation into the Catholic Church?

In other words would the parents be correct in believing that the child was within the Catholic faith during the time between Baptism and 1st Holy Communion?

Thanks
Click to expand...
this is my understanding having recently, (in the last week) review the RCIA book. if the child is under the age of reason when the parent converts, and has been baptized, the child is considered to now be Catholic as well, and is prepared for first communion and confirmation at the ordinary age set for the diocese, and the facts of his baptism are entered in the sacramental record when his parents’ info is entered. if the baptized non-Catholic child is over the age of discretion (generally age 7) he goes through RCIA as any other adult would.

if the Catholic parent consented to have the child baptized in another denomination, presumably that parent made the choice, or participated in the choice, so the child is not Catholic, canonically.
 
rpp said:
1ke, you are usually correct and well informed, but I think this is one of the rare occasions when you missed it.

Please correct me if I am wrong, but I thought that Baptism is the initial sacrament. All people who are baptized, no matter what church they were baptized in, become part of the mystical Body of Christ, which is represented on Earth by the Catholic Church. Therefore all people who are baptized are automatically Catholic.

It is the choices they make later that will determine whether they remain Catholic.
Click to expand...
no Ike has a closer understanding. all the validly baptized are Christian, but not Catholic until brought into full communion. think for a moment of the alternative, if what you say were true, all the baptized would be bound by Catholic canon law on marriage etc.

for the record questions about sacraments are discussed on Liturgy and Sacraments, and about the RCIA process in general on Evangelization, so if your further questions are going to explore those areas more deeply please start new threads in the proper forum.
 
I believe there is an initiation rite that is used to bring baptized children under the age of reason into the Catholic Church. (I think it is similar to the *rite *of baptism, minus the actual baptism.)

My guess is that a pastor would not immediately schedule such a rite in the case of a confirmed Catholic parent who had child baptized as an Anglican and then wanted to bring that child into the Catholic Church. He would probably want to take some time to counsel such a parent because he would probably have some doubts about the parent’s understanding of Catholicism and of the responsibilities of being a Catholic parent.
 
40.png
SMHW:
I believe there is an initiation rite that is used to bring baptized children under the age of reason into the Catholic Church. (I think it is similar to the *rite *of baptism, minus the actual baptism.)
Click to expand...
Affirmation of Faith
 
Well thanks to all - its been very enlightening.

I have come to realise that my fairly recent ‘all guns blazing’ burst into faith has not been withought some crashes and serious accidents.
I am now in a state of limbo as I awkwardly manouver myself towards the faith I have come to realise is the most powerful. I started off Angican (confirmed) - my wife is lapsed Catholic and my kids are now mixed - an 11yr old who just did 1st Holy Communion and a 6 yr old. Both were Baptised Anglican at my church - I now want to become confirmed Catholic.
As I understant it my 11yr old is now Catholic but my 6yr old is sort of in limbo until I become Catholic - then she will necome Catholic too as under age…Is that correct?
Thankfully they dont see the big deal on barriers between denominations and enjoy both churches - I realise however that I am making a bit of a mess as I find my place.
Thanks again folks for your help -
Petermnm
 
Petermn said:
Well thanks to all - its been very enlightening.

I have come to realise that my fairly recent ‘all guns blazing’ burst into faith has not been withought some crashes and serious accidents.
I am now in a state of limbo as I awkwardly manouver myself towards the faith I have come to realise is the most powerful. I started off Angican (confirmed) - my wife is lapsed Catholic and my kids are now mixed - an 11yr old who just did 1st Holy Communion and a 6 yr old. Both were Baptised Anglican at my church - I now want to become confirmed Catholic.
As I understant it my 11yr old is now Catholic but my 6yr old is sort of in limbo until I become Catholic - then she will necome Catholic too as under age…Is that correct?
Thankfully they dont see the big deal on barriers between denominations and enjoy both churches - I realise however that I am making a bit of a mess as I find my place.
Thanks again folks for your help -
Petermnm
Click to expand...
I take it that the eleven year old was received into the Church and that is why he/she just received First Communion? And that your wife is STILL a lapsed Catholic?

I believe you are correct about the six year old. (Assuming the child is still under the age of reason at such time as you are formally received into the Church.) But I would be sure to check with your pastor to make sure any necessary paperwork is filled out. In fact, ask your pastor in writing and ask for a written answer.

You can see from this thread that things get confusing when non-Catholic children of a mixed (Catholic/non-Catholic) marriage are to be received into the Church, especially since your child is very close to being considered at the age of reason.
 
Hi SMHW

Thanks - yes wife is still lapsed - 11 yr daughter has recieved 1st Holy Communion no other initiation was requested, just declared the original Baptismal certificate (Anglican) no issues were raised.

Confused at the mo but excited at prospect of being in family unison and participate in the fullness of Catholic faith.

Phew - - complicated!
 
Petermn said:
Hi SMHW

Thanks - yes wife is still lapsed - 11 yr daughter has recieved 1st Holy Communion no other initiation was requested, just declared the original Baptismal certificate (Anglican) no issues were raised.

Confused at the mo but excited at prospect of being in family unison and participate in the fullness of Catholic faith.

Phew - - complicated!
Click to expand...
Yes, you definitely need to talk to your pastor, this does not seem right.

Perhaps it was ignorance on the part of whomever you gave the Baptismal information to. A child baptized outside the Catholic Church should have been received into the Church through the RCIA process and should have received Communion and Confirmation together at that time.
 
Sorry I may not have made myself very clear.

When I say 1st Holy Communion I am refering to the whole 6 month programme of sessions for both child and parent (sepatate sessions) which eventually end with the celebration of the 11yr old taking 1st Holy communion.
I understood this to be the equivalent of the adult RCIA.

Please let me know if this satisfies your understanding of the correct proceedure.

Thanks for the concern

Petermn
 
Sounds fine by me! In our church we had a situation like that, and the children were ‘received into the Catholic church’ by making their First Communion and a few weeks later they were Confirmed with the other 12-13 year-olds.

Also, RCIA is not ‘compulsory’: I never did it when I converted in 1989! These days it is the ‘normal route’, but mainly for adults. For a 6 or 11 year-old a 6-month-getting-to-know-the-faith by using the normal First Communion/Confirmation books for that age group is perfectly ok.

And yes, the Anglican baptism is perfectly valid, so it was the First Communion that welcomed them into the Catholic church, and they’re now no longer Anglicans, they’re Catholics:thumbsup: !
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top