When is a child Catholic?

[puzzleannie]

the bishop of each diocese makes the decision about age of sacraments, so until proven otherwise, assume your parish is doing it “right”, however, make sure the pastor knows the entire situation (not the secretary, DRE etc, although they also need your info for proper record-keeping) but it is the pastor who decides who needs which sacraments, when, after what preparation. sounds like things are going as planned. This is really much simpler than the technical descriptions make it sound. Since you have already some experience with the “blazing sacraments” you are somewhat prepared for the explosion of grace that your family will experience as these sacraments become part of your lives. Your wife, however, may not be equally prepared for the bombardment from heaven, so we will surely be praying for her, because she will by no means be immune.

 

[Just_Lurking]

Edited to add: I am under the impression that these children would be required to attend RCIC before being admitted to the Sacraments of Confirmation and First Holy Communion. They wouldn’t be allowed to receive these Sacraments with their same-age peers in the Catholic Church, even if they go to Catholic school.

This is technically correct. However, in practice, this rule is honored more in the breach than the observance, as seems to be the case with the OP’s 11-year old.

 

[puzzleannie]

This is technically correct. However, in practice, this rule is honored more in the breach than the observance, as seems to be the case with the OP’s 11-year old.

the more common situation is that when an adult comes in to inquire about receiving sacraments, becoming Catholic etc. the person doing the interview fails to ask about other family members, so their needs are not even addressed until the last minute. another very frequent event is that parents register a child for sacramental preparation, fail to mention baptism was in another denomination, and until the paperwork is prepared no one realizes the child was in the “wrong” program.

 

[Joannm]

another very frequent event is that parents register a child for sacramental preparation, fail to mention baptism was in another denomination, and until the paperwork is prepared no one realizes the child was in the “wrong” program.

We have been seeing this occur more and more frequently, even in the Catholic schools. We had two children in our Catholic school preparing for Confirmation when two weeks before Confirmation it was realized that they were not baptized Catholics. This is the fault of the secretaries who take in the baptismal certificates and miss the fact that the child was baptised in a non Catholic church. This same scenario is repeated throughout the diocese. I am preparing a guide for school, parish and rel. ed. secretaries to help them to decipher baptismal certificates and it may be on our diocesean web site by the fall.

 

[rpp]

We have been seeing this occur more and more frequently, even in the Catholic schools. We had two children in our Catholic school preparing for Confirmation when two weeks before Confirmation it was realized that they were not baptized Catholics. This is the fault of the secretaries who take in the baptismal certificates and miss the fact that the child was baptised in a non Catholic church. This same scenario is repeated throughout the diocese. I am preparing a guide for school, parish and rel. ed. secretaries to help them to decipher baptismal certificates and it may be on our diocesean web site by the fall.

Baptism in any denomination, as long as it follows the Trinitarian formula, is valid.

 

[Petermn]

Thanks all

I feel better about things now. I’m glad it stirred some good topics.

I am now keen to become fully Confirmed myself so that my younger daughter will be Catholic and maybe my wife will become ‘unlapsed’ but that may take a lttle longer!

I will be back if/when I have further issues.

Very Helpful

Petermn

 

[jmcrae]

Sorry I may not have made myself very clear.

When I say 1st Holy Communion I am refering to the whole 6 month programme of sessions for both child and parent (sepatate sessions) which eventually end with the celebration of the 11yr old taking 1st Holy communion.
I understood this to be the equivalent of the adult RCIA.

Please let me know if this satisfies your understanding of the correct proceedure.

Thanks for the concern

Petermn

That sounds like it should have been right. Did the 11 year old not also receive First Confession and Confirmation, at the same time (like, on the same day or during the same week) as receiving First Holy Communion? It seems odd, if she did not.

 

[SMHW]

Baptism in any denomination, as long as it follows the Trinitarian formula, is valid.

No one denies this fact. But a valid baptism “in” a non-Catholic church is not enough to make a child Catholic even if one or both parents are Catholic.

The child must be brought into the *Catholic *Church before the child is eligible for First Reconciliation, First Communion, or Confirmation.

This whole discussion of how baptized children under the age of reason are brought into the Church is something that I would like to know more about.

 

[Just_Lurking]

This whole discussion of how baptized children under the age of reason are brought into the Church is something that I would like to know more about.

Just as it is the parent or guardian who makes the decision to have a child under the age of reason baptized, it is also the parent or guardian who makes the decision to bring a baptized non-Catholic child under the age of reason into the Catholic Church.

In both cases, the priest must determine if there is a well-founded hope that the child will be raised in the Catholic faith.

 

[Phemie]

We have been seeing this occur more and more frequently, even in the Catholic schools. We had two children in our Catholic school preparing for Confirmation when two weeks before Confirmation it was realized that they were not baptized Catholics. This is the fault of the secretaries who take in the baptismal certificates and miss the fact that the child was baptised in a non Catholic church. This same scenario is repeated throughout the diocese. I am preparing a guide for school, parish and rel. ed. secretaries to help them to decipher baptismal certificates and it may be on our diocesean web site by the fall.

You can’t even really count on the certificates, as I’ve found out lately. You’d have a problem with some of the kids baptized in one of the parishes I keep records for. For dozens of them, the priest issued a United Church certificate of baptism because he liked the look of that version better than the Catholic version printed by our records program.

Even when I pointed it out he didn’t stop, saying it wasn’t important. Well, OK, not if they stay put, but the minute they leave that community and the parents have to prove they’re Catholic they have a problem.

 

[jmcrae]

You can’t even really count on the certificates, as I’ve found out lately. You’d have a problem with some of the kids baptized in one of the parishes I keep records for. For dozens of them, the priest issued a United Church certificate of baptism because he liked the look of that version better than the Catholic version printed by our records program.

Even when I pointed it out he didn’t stop, saying it wasn’t important. Well, OK, not if they stay put, but the minute they leave that community and the parents have to prove they’re Catholic they have a problem.

Do they ever. The United Church of Canada doesn’t do valid baptisms, any more - they baptize in the name of the Creator, the Redeemer, and the Sanctifier. (Does your priest know that? Does anyone in the Catholic heirarchy know that? I get the feeling that this bit of information is slipping through the cracks; that nobody to whom it makes a difference is paying attention, here.)

 

[Phemie]

That sounds like it should have been right. Did the 11 year old not also receive First Confession and Confirmation, at the same time (like, on the same day or during the same week) as receiving First Holy Communion? It seems odd, if she did not.

There are several ‘contradictions’ in the Rite, contradictions that members of the Forum for the Catechumenate have expressed regret about:

1. the option for children to have First Communion & Confirmation later with their peers even if they go through the catechumenate;
2. the inclusion of those coming into full Communion with those entering the Church through the catechumenate, at the Vigil.

 

[SMHW]

Just as it is the parent or guardian who makes the decision to have a child under the age of reason baptized, it is also the parent or guardian who makes the decision to bring a baptized non-Catholic child under the age of reason into the Catholic Church.

In both cases, the priest must determine if there is a well-founded hope that the child will be raised in the Catholic faith.

Yes. Of course it is the decision of the parent(s). But it doesn’t happen just because the parent brings the child to Mass and enrolls the child in Catholic school/Faith Formation.

 

[Petermn]

Yes my 11 year old did receive 1st confession as part of the 1st Holy Communion programme - but not confirmation of-course, that comes later if she decides.
I do wish I had done my homework - I have suffered denominational ignorance or foolishness, can only try to follow the right path from here in.
It still raises the issue of my 6 yr old, she has Angilcan certificate but I assume she will become Catholic if I convert whilst she is under age.