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AmateurPianist
Guest
What are the beliefs that an organization must adhere to in order to be considered Christian?
And why?
And why?
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1ke
Guest
The Catholic answer to this question is that the minimum to be considered a Christian denomination is adherence to the doctrine of the Trinity.
The Trinity is the central teaching of Christianity. A belief that Jesus is anyone other than God makes one something other than Christian.
The Trinity is the central teaching of Christianity. A belief that Jesus is anyone other than God makes one something other than Christian.
O
Orchanian
Guest
I heard a sermon on this from a Baptist preacher. I don’t remember all the characteristics (there were 5), but here are the ones I remember:
Mormons, because they do not believe that Jesus is the Son of God. They see him as a great prophet.
Jehovahs Witnesses, because they say that Michael the Archangel was Jesus. They believe that Jesus is only a man, not God.
The Catholic Creed (that we say at Mass) sums up the beliefs of most Christians:
We believe in God, the Father the Almighty, creator of heaven and earth. of all that is seen and unseen. We believe in Jesus Christ, the only Son of God, eternally begotten of the Father, God from God, Light from Light, true God from true God, begotten, not made, one in Being with the Father.
Through him all things were made. For us men and for our salvation he came down from heaven: by the power of the Holy Spirit, he was born of the Virgin Mary, and became man. For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate; he suffered, died, and was buried. On the third day he rose again in fulfillment of the Scriptures; he ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father. He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead, and his kingdom will have no end. We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life, who proceeds from the Father and the Son. With the Father and the Son he is worshiped and glorified. He has spoken through the Prophets. We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic church. We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins. We look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come.
I think all Christians would agree with this Creed. It is very similar (but a bit longer) that the Apostles’ Creed.
- Believe that Jesus is God, the second part of the Trinity
- Believe in the literal resurrection of Christ
- Believe that Jesus dies for our sins.
Mormons, because they do not believe that Jesus is the Son of God. They see him as a great prophet.
Jehovahs Witnesses, because they say that Michael the Archangel was Jesus. They believe that Jesus is only a man, not God.
The Catholic Creed (that we say at Mass) sums up the beliefs of most Christians:
We believe in God, the Father the Almighty, creator of heaven and earth. of all that is seen and unseen. We believe in Jesus Christ, the only Son of God, eternally begotten of the Father, God from God, Light from Light, true God from true God, begotten, not made, one in Being with the Father.
Through him all things were made. For us men and for our salvation he came down from heaven: by the power of the Holy Spirit, he was born of the Virgin Mary, and became man. For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate; he suffered, died, and was buried. On the third day he rose again in fulfillment of the Scriptures; he ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father. He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead, and his kingdom will have no end. We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life, who proceeds from the Father and the Son. With the Father and the Son he is worshiped and glorified. He has spoken through the Prophets. We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic church. We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins. We look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come.
I think all Christians would agree with this Creed. It is very similar (but a bit longer) that the Apostles’ Creed.
M
mmmcounts
Guest
Short answer- Jesus Christ must be correctly identified in order for me to take people seriously who call themselves Christians. There is more to it than that, but that’s the first thing I look at.What are the beliefs that an organization must adhere to in order to be considered Christian?
And why?
Some of the criteria for calling it a “correct identification” of Jesus include the following: You can’t deny the Trinity, you can’t deny the hypostatic union, you can’t deny Jesus’ eternal existence. There’s probably a few more, but those are the basics. If you deny these things, you show that you know the name of Jesus but you don’t know who He really is.
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Orchanian
Guest
Another thought. There are some denominations that claim that only their church members are saved. When you hear that, be cautious. Often their dogmatic position isn’t based on Scripture or the teachings of the early church fathers.
A
agent_grey
Guest
The moment a person denies the need of the real presence of Yeshua’s literal Body and Blood in the communion act they are no longer a christian and an absolute enemy of truth.
The Blasphemy of the Holy Sprit.
The Blasphemy of the Holy Sprit.
C
chrisforte
Guest
"Orchanian
Re: When is a Christian organization Not Christian
‘Another thought. There are some denominations that claim that only their church members are saved. When you hear that, be cautious. Often their dogmatic position isn’t based on Scripture or the teachings of the early church fathers.’"
This is exactly the teaching of the Catholic Church. Though there is a loophole for non-Catholics, according to the catechism.
Of course, as a Catholic myself, I don’t consider it a “denomination,” but the original and one and only Christian institution that has been around since the beginning and started by Jesus and he Apostles…
-Chris
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AmateurPianist
Guest
Is this taught in the Catechism anywhere, or is this your opinion?The moment a person denies the need of the real presence of Yeshua’s literal Body and Blood in the communion act they are no longer a christian and an absolute enemy of truth.
The Blasphemy of the Holy Sprit.
A
AmateurPianist
Guest
I tend to agree with this, but to be honest I am not totally sure why.Short answer- Jesus Christ must be correctly identified in order for me to take people seriously who call themselves Christians. There is more to it than that, but that’s the first thing I look at.
Some of the criteria for calling it a “correct identification” of Jesus include the following: You can’t deny the Trinity, you can’t deny the hypostatic union, you can’t deny Jesus’ eternal existence. There’s probably a few more, but those are the basics. If you deny these things, you show that you know the name of Jesus but you don’t know who He really is.
And I am not totally sure what the limits on Jesus Christ must be correctly identified. For example there are Christian organizations that claim Jesus was crucified on Wednesday (or was it Thursday) but not Friday. Although somebody is obviously wrong concerning a factual detail of the crucifixion, I would not think this is Jesus incorrectly identified.
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AmateurPianist
Guest
I can understand why a proper belief about Christ would be one of the identifying characteristics on what makes an organization Christian (although a part of me doesn’t know why).
But when I read Jude and II Peter it seems to me that these passages are using the metrics of moral theology and conduct. So sometimes I wonder why organizations that advocate gay marriage and/or the Word of Faith folks on TBN seem to get a pass.
But when I read Jude and II Peter it seems to me that these passages are using the metrics of moral theology and conduct. So sometimes I wonder why organizations that advocate gay marriage and/or the Word of Faith folks on TBN seem to get a pass.
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Orchanian
Guest
As I understand it, the Catholic Church teaches that all are saved through the Church. That doesn’t mean that those who are members of other churches are not saved. They are saved through (by means of) the Church that Jesus founded (Catholic). If they are Baptist, for instance, and serve the Lord in the best way they understand Him, they will be saved. So this is a little different than saying that all non-Catholics are bound for Hell.
"Orchanian
Re: When is a Christian organization Not Christian
‘Another thought. There are some denominations that claim that only their church members are saved. When you hear that, be cautious. Often their dogmatic position isn’t based on Scripture or the teachings of the early church fathers.’"
This is exactly the teaching of the Catholic Church. Though there is a loophole for non-Catholics, according to the catechism.
Of course, as a Catholic myself, I don’t consider it a “denomination,” but the original and one and only Christian institution that has been around since the beginning and started by Jesus and he Apostles…
-Chris
K
KathleenGee
Guest
AmatuerPianist,
A Christian is not only a believer in Christ as Lord, but the faith defined in the Apostles Creed given to you on a previous post.
The years following Christ’s death and resurrection, people began to loose faith in Christ as Man. So after the Council of Nicea, the Nicene Creed is professed at every Sabbath Mass…True God and True Man, as well as the historical testimony of His life here on earth…
Vatican II Documents have a whole section on people of other faiths and those of Good Will…all work together in good are ascending to the Lord. A priest used to tell us at church that we Catholics were privileged to have the Eucharist. I have believed in the Eucharist my entire life. But I am not assured of my salvation because I am a Catholic.
The only people mentioned in Vatican II Documents targeted as possible candidates for loss of heaven are those Catholics, who inspite of following all the laws of God and the Church, do not have charity in their hearts for their neighbor.
I am depending on Christ’s mercy for me for all my own failings in life for my union with Him someday…I can’t trust myself. Only His goodness and mercy.
A Christian is not only a believer in Christ as Lord, but the faith defined in the Apostles Creed given to you on a previous post.
The years following Christ’s death and resurrection, people began to loose faith in Christ as Man. So after the Council of Nicea, the Nicene Creed is professed at every Sabbath Mass…True God and True Man, as well as the historical testimony of His life here on earth…
Vatican II Documents have a whole section on people of other faiths and those of Good Will…all work together in good are ascending to the Lord. A priest used to tell us at church that we Catholics were privileged to have the Eucharist. I have believed in the Eucharist my entire life. But I am not assured of my salvation because I am a Catholic.
The only people mentioned in Vatican II Documents targeted as possible candidates for loss of heaven are those Catholics, who inspite of following all the laws of God and the Church, do not have charity in their hearts for their neighbor.
I am depending on Christ’s mercy for me for all my own failings in life for my union with Him someday…I can’t trust myself. Only His goodness and mercy.
S
shawn38
Guest
First you must recognize that we are all sinners (Rom 3:23) and that the wages of sin are death (Rom 6:23). Once this is realized, you can understand why you need a savior for no work alone can warrant salvation. Then belief, repent, and be baptized.What are the beliefs that an organization must adhere to in order to be considered Christian?
And why?
Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
1 Cor 15:2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. 3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; 4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
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Teneas
Guest
Wow, nicely said, though it won’t win any converts. LOLThe moment a person denies the need of the real presence of Yeshua’s literal Body and Blood in the communion act they are no longer a christian and an absolute enemy of truth.
The Blasphemy of the Holy Sprit.
P
puzzleannie
Guest
If you want Catholic teaching, there has to be valid trinitarian baptism and adherence to the tenets of the Apostles Creed. If you want to know how each denomination defines itself, you would have to ask their leadership directly.
S
StrawberryJam
Guest
When they tell you to drink a cup of kool aid.
When they tell you to protest at funerals of people who you think are sinful.
When they want you to hate people, and kill them.
When they want to see your tax statements to prove your tithing the right amount
I guess the list could get pretty long.
When they tell you to protest at funerals of people who you think are sinful.
When they want you to hate people, and kill them.
When they want to see your tax statements to prove your tithing the right amount
I guess the list could get pretty long.
S
shawn38
Guest
In remembrance of Jesus.The moment a person denies the need of the real presence of Yeshua’s literal Body and Blood in the communion act they are no longer a christian and an absolute enemy of truth.
The Blasphemy of the Holy Sprit.
First the concept of the literal body
“Offered Himself Once” - (Heb 7:27, 9:25, 26, 28, Heb 10:11, 12)
“It is finished” - Mentioned three times ragarding Hisd atoning work. (Heb 10:18, John 17:4, and 19:30)
“Ascended into Heaven” - (Acts 1:9-10, John 20:17, Luke 24:51, Mark 16:19,)
Sat down - (Col 3:1, Eph 1:20, Heb 1:3, 13 and 10:12, Mark 14:62 and 16:19, Matt 26:64)
Second Coming - (Lk 21:27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. Jude 1:14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints) None of this sounds like bread.
The fact that He’s seated is very important for in the tabernacle there were no seats since the atoning work was never accomplished. Christ sitting indicates that it’s done! To think a man, a sinful man at that, could uproot Christ from His seat in heaven is amazing.
Wine
The OT uses three words to describe wine: thirush, iin, and shkr. It’s important to understand this for wine can be either fermented or unfermented. God doesn’t approve of fermented wine (alcoholic) Wine is a mocker,Strong drink is a brawler, And whoever is led astray by it is not wise (Psalm 20:1 and many more). Is 5:22 Woe to men mighty at drinking wine, Woe to men valiant for mixing intoxicating drink, Woes never sound good!
Is 28:7 But they also have erred through wine, And through intoxicating drink are out of the way; The priest and the prophet have erred through intoxicating drink, They are swallowed up by wine, They are out of the way through intoxicating drink; They err in vision, they stumble in judgment.
Example of unfermented wine
Is 65:8 Thus says the LORD: “ As the new wine is found in the cluster,
Consider this:
It is the yeast (leaven) on the grape skin that breaks down the sugars inside the grape to produce alcohol. When Jews ate the passover they began purging their houses of leaven about two weeks earlier. We don’t know exactly what was in the cup, but it could not have contained alcohol. It’s grape juice that settles an stomach, not alcohol.
The NT only uses oinon and oxos (vinegar) to describe wine. So understanding the context of wine of the OT lets us understand wine of the NT. Assuredly God wouldn’t give us something that would lead us into temptation. We’re told to keep watch for we don’t know when the bridegroom will return.
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AmateurPianist
Guest
You realize what this is saying is that the Catholic church believes that Baptists like Charles Colson and Billy Graham as well as Assembly of God like myself are Not Christian and have committed Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.Wow, nicely said, though it won’t win any converts. LOL
Could you please document where the Catholic church teaches this.
If you can’t document this, I:have no choice but to believe you all are performing some private interpretation.
O
Orchanian
Guest
That is definitely not what the Catholic Church teaches. As a matter of fact, the Church teaches that even Jews and Muslims can go to heaven. So if it teaches that, I’m pretty sure Billy Graham and Charles Colson would qualify.You realize what this is saying is that the Catholic church believes that Baptists like Charles Colson and Billy Graham as well as Assembly of God like myself are Not Christian and have committed Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.
Could you please document where the Catholic church teaches this.
If you can’t document this, I:have no choice but to believe you all are performing some private interpretation.
The Catechism says [836] All men are called to this catholic unity of the People of God… And to it, in different ways, belong or are ordered: the Catholic faithful, others who believe in Christ, and finally all mankind, called by God’s grace to salvation. And in [838] it says: The Church knows that she is joined in many ways to the baptized who are honored by the name of Christan, but do not profess the Catholic faith in its entirety or have not preserved unity or communion under the successor of Peter. Those who believe in Christ and have been properly baptized are put in a certain, although imperfect, communion with the Catholic Church.
There is much more in the Catechism that would be worth are read (the sections around these paragraphs) and would clarify the actual teaching of the church.
T
Teneas
Guest
I agree with most of these.When they tell you to drink a cup of kool aid.
When they tell you to protest at funerals of people who you think are sinful.
When they want you to hate people, and kill them.
When they want to see your tax statements to prove your tithing the right amount
I guess the list could get pretty long.
Hate is not from God.
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