When is it cheating?

[Hudson_Gillette]

mary's kid:

If you wouldn’t do it with your spouse next to you, it’s cheating.

I think this pretty accurately sums it up. The same could be said if you looked up a former girlfriend or boyfriend, knowing your spouse would not approve, if they knew. Though, most people would agree that is sometimes a thought that would occur to any normal person. But that is probably a bad idea, right?

 

[BOBKAT]

I have another instance in which my family has been torn apart. My sister’s husband spends alot of time with my youngest sister who is not his wife so much time that the family would joke about it. I had mentioned to my BIL that even though you are married to one sister it looks like you are dating the other sister he than made a remark like don’t say that to loud your sister his wife will get mad. I don’t say this lightly, he just about supported her, corrected her children, paid tuition, move her out of my house which she was renting very cheap and I would have sold it to her at the balance of the mortgage which was very affordable to her. Anyhow that looks like some form of cheating to me. What do you think? I brought it up again this time to my younger sister not his wife and rather than him coming to my home to ask why I would ask such a thing he went home picked up the phone while his wife didn’t know a thing and with her standing in the room he ask if I started a rumor of him and my other sister well his wife was devastated with me and hasn’t spoke to me since which is almost 2 years.

God Bless
Kathleen

 

[BOBKAT]

One other thing is that I am the only person who went as far as asking the question. Most people don’t seem to understand what cheating really is. I hope you don’t mind that I interjected this, but I thought the same thing “when is it cheating”. I don’t know for sure if any physical contact between the two was ever the thing I only know that I see my BIL with the other sister way more than I see him with his wife. My other sister ask my why I said that to our youngest sister and I said to her why didn’t you ask also.

Thanks again
Kathleen

 

[TableServant]

Hudson_Gillette:

I think this pretty accurately sums it up. The same could be said if you looked up a former girlfriend or boyfriend, knowing your spouse would not approve, if they knew. Though, most people would agree that is sometimes a thought that would occur to any normal person. But that is probably a bad idea, right?

Of course, some activities would still be cheating if your spouse DID approve, I’d think.

Just because my spouse, hypothetically, says that it’s OK if I devote attention, time, or physical activity to someone else, doesn’t make it OK. Or does the spouse’s knowledge and consent move it away from “cheating” and just into “morally wrong”?

 

[AndyF]

Magicsilence:

Contrary to popular belief, chastity is not some far off virtue that can never be reached.

No one said it is. But the desire is still there regardless. Come to think of it, a priest said it was too, or maybe words to that effect, can’t remember.

Our current culture tells us that we should be thinking of sex all day long.

True

From birth it is ingrained into our minds that sex is the object of all things.

Every generation has said this, going as far back as the Roman and Greek classic ages, which should say something about the character of sex.

All films, adverts, books, websites (well, nearly all) promote such an attitude.

True

I am sure, that set in the middle of a mountain, freezing with snow, and a lack of food, sex would be the last thing on your mind.
Try fasting for two days solid, and see if sex still holds much importance.
We seek sex because our other needs are fulfilled.

Sex is a combined feature of many variables including drug(hormone,etc) and induced programming that occurs at puberty. So there is a physical initiation that occurs in everyone’s life.

The Nazis’s experiment on holocaust victims showed sex was very much alive and well among the ill and dying. These tests involved immersion in freezing water as well as other arrangements.

We can change this through suppressing some of our needs.

With some help by grace, but then that too may be part of the grand wager.

Not fulfilling them, denying the body pleasure.

Suppression, right. BTW: Some psychiatrists believe that the suppression is a cause for other sexual deviation such has masturbation,etc. In these cases they become substitutes for the normal expression.

Sex is the ultimate pleasure, but we will not desire it if all other BASIC needs are not fulfilled.

It is my understanding that in usual cases the desire does not diminish. If it does, it could be accountable by a physical feature of hormone diminishment due to aging, lowered libido due to environmental factors,health,etc.

Christ said “When you fast” not “If”, if we followed Him in this path, the current sexual abomination seen in our society would definetly not have held so much power as it does over todays Catholics.

Mat 19,12 “…Let him accept this teaching who can.”
Suggests that not all sacrifices are attainable by everyone, and that for some no matter how they strive, they can not attain it. Here he makes recognition of some men’s weakness in this regard, otherwise he would have said “all can accept this teaching regardless”, or simply would have left it out.

Andy

 

[Filius_Prodigus]

Magicsilence:

If the bible says something on it, I say listen

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Jesus makes it clear that to even look at a woman with lust IS adultery. The same goes for women - men.

In Christ.

Andre.

I believe it’s consenting it. I don’t agree that just for the fact that we “have hormones” (so to speak) is enough to make us sin. I mean, sometimes your eyes go like “WOOOOOW!” automatically and then you look away. But (for instance) if you buy porn or turn your head all the way to see a girl (or boy -I’m being inclusive here)… well that’s different!

 

[steveandersen]

idoqna:

Steve,

I was talking about “emotionally there” in chatting sexually or intimately with the opposite sex. IOW, you’re on a chat site or even a game room and your spouse is playing with someone of the opposite sex and starts talking in sexual banter, then that is cheating, IMHO.

Hmmm, I suppose that everyone is different

idoqna:

What if he/she meets that person every day for a game or to chat and it’s not just about the spoons y’all collect?

I’m a big boy; I’m not threatened by electrons on a screen.

Call me obtuse (you’re obtuse) but I don’t have a problem with her being emotionally there for her friends. Sure the reptile part of my brain can feel jealously but I don’t think that kind of selfishness has a place in a healthy relationship.

And as practical matter I she’s on the computer I know where she is.

idoqna:

It starts off light hearted and goes further into the realm of sexual flirtation. That’s what I’m talking about with the phrase. At that point you are not physically there but you are emotionally there

Sounds to me that if you’re going from playful friendly banter/flirting to serious suggestion then you’ve stopped being emotionally there and have started to become physically there ifyouknowwhatImean.

then you may have a problem

The interesting thing about the Internet is that the correspondents can be hundreds or thousands of miles apart with no possibility of meeting. Which makes posting on the net is almost like keeping a journal. People routinely put their thoughts and feelings into diaries and journals. Does having an audience make it “cheating”? Hmmmm

As a practical matter it is the folks from work, social groups, friends or others who you physically see and are close to who are potential candidates for cheating.

As the old saying goes “Familiarity breeds attempt”

 

[Filius_Prodigus]

steveandersen:

The interesting thing about the Internet is that the correspondents can be hundreds or thousands of miles apart with no possibility of meeting. Which makes posting on the net is almost like keeping a journal. People routinely put their thoughts and feelings into diaries and journals. Does having an audience make it “cheating”? Hmmmm

If the “journal” is sexual in nature*, that sounds like porn. If it isn’t, it’s ok IMO.

• Or if it’s becoming “feelings” about each other over the web.

 

[TableServant]

One way that we might want to consider this question is in the matter of an “exclusive relationship”.

In marriage, we promise to be exclusive with our affections, our (erotic) love, our intimate contact. If we are giving part of that to someone else, no matter in what context, then are we not “cheating?”

In other words, if I am giving someone else attention or affection that I should be giving to my spouse, or that I am denying my spouse, aren’t I cheating? Now, that doesn’t mean that I can’t have friends and share interests with my friends, but I can’t deny those areas of my life to my spouse. That doesn’t mean that I can’t have friends of the opposite gender, either, but that there are emotions and actions that I have promised exclusively to my spouse. If I turn them toward another person, or, worse, an image of another person, then I am cheating. And, if my attention and friendship that I share with others detracts from the attention, friendship, and love that I should be sharing with my spouse, it could be said that I am cheating then, too.

 

[Rob_s_Wife]

It’s cheating if:

You wouldn’t do it or say it with your spouse there.

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and/or

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You wouldn’t want your spouse to know about it.

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and/or

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You wouldn’t feel happy to know your spouse was doing it/saying it.

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If someone is doing something that cause them to feel any of the above, it’s a cler indicator they probably shouldn’t do it.

 

[amor]

idoqna:

I heard a talk show the other day discussing when is it cheating. It came to my attention during this show that men and women view the onset of cheating differently.

Married men were saying they didn’t consider online chat rooms where they talk about other things besides the weather as cheating. Married women were saying that is cheating because you’re emotionally there with the other person.

Some married men don’t see it as cheating to view online sexually graphic websites, if you know what I mean. Married women were saying that is cheating.

I was wondering what this forum’s members thought on the subject, whether you’re married or not. Secondly, what does the Catholic faith say on this subject, especially the online subject. I know a married couple who almost divorced over the online subject. They went to counseling and worked everything out. They are Catholic.

Thanks for any responses. Also, if the SYSOP doesn’t think this is the appropriate area for this question, please move it for me and let me know. It was hard trying to figure that one out since it’s such a wierd subject. I’m thinking the internet is just another way for the devil to enter into our marriages and private lives if it’s abused.

Thank you for responses.

Stephanie

It is cheating when there is a desire to have illicit sexual relations, i.e. with someone other than your spouse.

So talking to another woman in a chat room where there is a communication of such a desire – even if that desire was something like “I’d do it if we wouldn’t get caught; but we will get caught so I won’t do it” – would be “cheating”

Looking at a picture of another woman and thinking, “I want to have intercourse with her and would if it were possible without getting caught” would be cheating as well – even when there is no possibility for that to happen.

This is because purity of heart is supposed to govern not only what we do, but also what we would do.

This is just my opinion but I don’t think merely having an affection for, an emotional attachment to another person of the opposite sex is cheating. One may have had past girlfriends for instance and it is not natural to expect that any and all affection for any of them is just obliterated by courtship and marriage. It’s also not morally obligatory for the affection one has for one’s spouse to be the most “passionate” for lack of a better word. Some people marry more out of convenience than “love” or romance … marry due to the social stability it may provide, the financial resources it would give for one’s children, or even in some unusual cases especially in history, to help the greater society in bringing reconciliation between two peoples.

However, when emotional attachment or affection for someone else would cause the spouse to be needlessly jealous, hurt, or dissapointed, it is best to avoid interactions with persons that could lead to that or foster that or rekindle that … and engaging in these kinds of interactions needlessly (like having lunch every day with an old girlfriend) could be a sin … a sin against charity … and when one is married it is morally required that one in charity love one’s spouse first – even if the matter of emotions and affection is not so morally bound (and really it can’t be since we only have limited control over them)

 

[idoqna]

WOW! I just got all the messages and it’s been interesting to read them. I believe the last poster is right on the money as well along with several others. Y’all have gotten the thrust of the query.

This has been a very interesting exchange!

Steph

 

[bkdianne]

a_cermak]I guess I’m a contrarian. If by cheating you mean adultery, then there’s only one way to do that–and it involves a specific act with someone physically present. The commandment against adultery is written in Hebrew and Hebrew is specific on what adultery is.

-My definition of cheating is first its a thought, then a word, then a deed…so if its in your thoughts, thats the first strike…then when you speak it, or “chat” it, its a word…and we all know what a deed means…