R
Rau
Guest
Disagreement on what precisely? Do many disagree that contraception is immoral? Certainly!
Permitted by whom??
It’s a minority of zero who endorse that course.
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1ke
Guest
No, it does not “make sense.”that only makes sense.
Contraception is always grave matter against the sixth commandment as is direct sterilization.
We are called to abstain, either periodically or completely, when we have such a need.
If a partial hysterectomy is medically indicated because the uterus is actually damaged, that is not direct sterilization. But to take it out specifically to prevent pregnancy is direct sterilization and is always wrong.
OB-GYNs are qualified to determine whether a woman should or should not become pregnant again, which is a medical question. Even unmarried, male OB-GYNs.I suspect the OB-GYN is more qualified to determine that than celibate theologians in their ivory towers.
Meanwhile, pastors are qualified to help the couple with moral questions, such as moral and immoral ways to avoid pregnancy.
J
JanR
Guest
Here is an option when it comes to retaining some of the natural hormones after a hysterectomy:
If it’s possible, ask the surgeon to leave one of her ovaries inside of her body. When I had my hysterectomy, due to a fibroid tumor that caused excessive bleeding, my surgeon took my uterus, my cervix and my right ovary so as to prevent anymore tumors from forming in any of those reproductive organs, and possibly risk having future tumors be cancerous. He kept my left ovary untouched, so I wouldn’t experience early menopause. I was 45 at the time.
If the surgeon will leave one ovary inside of her, she might not need HRT, at all.
If it’s possible, ask the surgeon to leave one of her ovaries inside of her body. When I had my hysterectomy, due to a fibroid tumor that caused excessive bleeding, my surgeon took my uterus, my cervix and my right ovary so as to prevent anymore tumors from forming in any of those reproductive organs, and possibly risk having future tumors be cancerous. He kept my left ovary untouched, so I wouldn’t experience early menopause. I was 45 at the time.
If the surgeon will leave one ovary inside of her, she might not need HRT, at all.
No. They are only permits by you.. Women are clearly being permitted to use birth control when getting pregnant would be dangerous to them.
And before you said that others misinterpret Church’s doctrine, I would suggests you read yourself the officials texts*. So you would know, and not interpret a vague spirit.
See on the Holy See Website, for eg, uterine isolation.
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Ean_Fanaiochta
Guest
My reply that women are being permitted to use birth control when getting pregnant would be dangerous to them was based on posts I’ve read in threads similar to this one. I have read comments by several women who spoke to their priests about this issue and were assured it was permissible.
You can say this is all mistaken, it’s against Church teaching, etc. but the teachings are obviously open to interpretation. It would seem you can look at it in a legalistic, Pharisaical manner in which the rule (or one’s interpretation of it) is more important than endangering a woman’s life. Or, you can look at it in a way more reminiscent of Jesus’ approach to “the rules” as some priests apparently do. If you take the time to read the Gospels and how Jesus dealt with people, you’ll understand what I mean.
You can say this is all mistaken, it’s against Church teaching, etc. but the teachings are obviously open to interpretation. It would seem you can look at it in a legalistic, Pharisaical manner in which the rule (or one’s interpretation of it) is more important than endangering a woman’s life. Or, you can look at it in a way more reminiscent of Jesus’ approach to “the rules” as some priests apparently do. If you take the time to read the Gospels and how Jesus dealt with people, you’ll understand what I mean.
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VanitasVanitatum
Guest
That’s just a disguised self interest. Jesus likely has nothing to do with it.Or, you can look at it in a way more reminiscent of Jesus’ approach to “the rules” as some priests apparently do.
It is the wrong way to learn Church teaching by just reading comments on an anomymous forum from women who said priests permits them to use birth control.My reply that women are being permitted to use birth control when getting pregnant would be dangerous to them was based on posts I’ve read in threads similar to this one. I have read comments by several women who spoke to their priests about this issue and were assured it was permissible.
First, go back to the officials texts is the right way to do. As if we are in school.
Second, the priests cannot “allowed” womeone to use birth control. It is legalistic to see a priest’s approval before making a moral choice or transgress moral norm. No one should permits you to make a choice.
Third, some priests don’t stand for the Church’s morality.
For, it is possible that what a faithfull lay person perceived as a priest’s permission is only a priest who just let someone before his moral choices, not someone who said yes “go ahead, and do this, you have my blessing”.
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ok with the beginning.
What the OP and his wife has to decide is if they would have an hysterectomy just after the delivery.
It is unclear if they would be proposed one later.
Maybe the best is to wait the second medical advise of the high risk specialist.
This treat and pressure is not good for an heavily pregnant woman.
Not sure we shoud continued to debate endelessly, and what light it can brings to the OP…
What the OP and his wife has to decide is if they would have an hysterectomy just after the delivery.
It is unclear if they would be proposed one later.
Maybe the best is to wait the second medical advise of the high risk specialist.
This treat and pressure is not good for an heavily pregnant woman.
Not sure we shoud continued to debate endelessly, and what light it can brings to the OP…
B
babochka
Guest
First of all, get a second opinion. But even with the second opinion, no doctor can predict the future for you. Many doctors have predetermined opinions on what risks are reasonable to take for a future pregnancies. Most doctors will say that more than 3 C-sections presents an unreasonable risk, regardless. I was told by my doctor during my second C-section (third pregnancy) that I should never get pregnant again, but if I was foolish enough to do so, I should have a scheduled C-section at 36 weeks so that my uterus did not stretch so thin. When I got pregnant again, I went out of my way to find a doctor who was known to be pro-life and supportive of large families. Even given my history, she was willing to attempt a vbac after 2 C-sections. I went into labor at 41 weeks and several hours later, I had my third C-section. I asked her what she thought about another baby and she said that there was very little scar tissue. The uterus was thin, but that was to be expected on a 4th pregnancy that was 41 weeks. I had a different, but like-minded doctor when I gave birth to my fifth by scheduled C-section at 39 weeks. She said that everything looked good and if I wanted to have another baby, she could not recommend against it. The assistant surgeon, who had not been part of my previous conversations with my doctor, objected. My sixth baby was delivered by scheduled C-section at 39 weeks.
Doctors do their best to make the recommendations that they think are the safest route, given the circumstances. Those recommendations are guided by their professional ethics, past experiences and personal biases.
Doctors do their best to make the recommendations that they think are the safest route, given the circumstances. Those recommendations are guided by their professional ethics, past experiences and personal biases.
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1ke
Guest
Sadly there are priests who will mislead those who come to them for advice. It is not actually possible for a priest to give someone permission to contracept any more than they can give permission for any other sinful action.I have read comments by several women who spoke to their priests about this issue and were assured it was permissible.
Their culpability is reduced or eliminated depending on their level of knowledge and their trust in their priest. The culpability lies with the priest who led them astray.
Actually it’s not.but the teachings are obviously open to interpretation.
It’s a terrible disservice to the faithful when a priest leads them astray.
And of course as we have said repeatedly on this thread— it is not a sin to get a medically necessary hysterectomy nor is it direct sterilization to do so.
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Minks
Guest
[Trishie, quote]
On the way to work tears would silently slip down my cheeks, Dad . . . was trying is best for the kids. And yes, pacing up and down is a real thing . . . Dad never realised that women found him fascinating. He was a quiet humble man . . . He was still grieving.
I tried to help in the many ways I used to help Mum. Everything I did drew criticism. Even the way I cut beans was wrong. I left home without fuss and without giving reasons. The two sisters younger than me also did. It was the sixties and we married two early, too young. Two of those marriages ended in divorce and annulment. Mine came close many times for the first 25 years. Two of my brothers left home far too young, two began drinking too much, one stopped, the other later died in a fiery single car crash at 12.30 am after drinking too much blue label whisky. He’d stopped drinking for a few years but his wife left, so back to drink. When we girls escaped, they lost too much also. After I married, this brother put himself arms around my waster and said sadly” I wish you girls hadn’t left home” worst, they’d ask for me from very young if Mum asked, “who do you want to put you to bed, “ Trishie “ they’d reply. That day I realised they’d lost more than their mum
For years I only cried if I did, for my siblings,
But then one day iI looked around at my three little boys and knew they would never know my Mum, and that I was never able to have an adult chat or a cup of tea with her. I cried on and off for three days, because I’d lost my Mum, and shouldn’t have to have done.
I’m 73 years old and have had tears running down my face as I write
So if you are talking about the life of a mother who is in danger of dying, think also about her husband and her children, each child. I cannot doubt that a compassionate God could. Most of us aren’t saints and never likely to be even if they tried as hard and as long as I did, from a young child.
[/quote] [Cut: space restriction]
@Trishie
Praying for you and your family. I’m so very sorry for the decades of hurt that you’ve all endured.
My husband was killed in a military plane crash three weeks before our first anniversary and three months before our son’s birth. The row has been long, uneven, weedy, and definitely hard to hoe. I was often overwhelmed, even with the moral support of my dear parents, but I had only one child who didn’t understand why God took his daddy to “hebben.” I’m 78, he’s 55, and we still don’t understand. We’ve heard the platitudes and uttered them ourselves, but we don’t understand. Some things we must take on faith or cease to exist.
Knowing the magnitude of what I faced alone, with only one child, I can’t even imagine the devastation and anguish that your poor father encountered. No matter what earthly faults your father may have had, he’s a saint. May you all have more sunshine than rain in your lives in the years ahead, and may you all know eternal happiness together in Heaven. You and your family are in my forever prayer journal, Trishie. Hugs.
On the way to work tears would silently slip down my cheeks, Dad . . . was trying is best for the kids. And yes, pacing up and down is a real thing . . . Dad never realised that women found him fascinating. He was a quiet humble man . . . He was still grieving.
I tried to help in the many ways I used to help Mum. Everything I did drew criticism. Even the way I cut beans was wrong. I left home without fuss and without giving reasons. The two sisters younger than me also did. It was the sixties and we married two early, too young. Two of those marriages ended in divorce and annulment. Mine came close many times for the first 25 years. Two of my brothers left home far too young, two began drinking too much, one stopped, the other later died in a fiery single car crash at 12.30 am after drinking too much blue label whisky. He’d stopped drinking for a few years but his wife left, so back to drink. When we girls escaped, they lost too much also. After I married, this brother put himself arms around my waster and said sadly” I wish you girls hadn’t left home” worst, they’d ask for me from very young if Mum asked, “who do you want to put you to bed, “ Trishie “ they’d reply. That day I realised they’d lost more than their mum
For years I only cried if I did, for my siblings,
But then one day iI looked around at my three little boys and knew they would never know my Mum, and that I was never able to have an adult chat or a cup of tea with her. I cried on and off for three days, because I’d lost my Mum, and shouldn’t have to have done.
I’m 73 years old and have had tears running down my face as I write
So if you are talking about the life of a mother who is in danger of dying, think also about her husband and her children, each child. I cannot doubt that a compassionate God could. Most of us aren’t saints and never likely to be even if they tried as hard and as long as I did, from a young child.
[/quote] [Cut: space restriction]
@Trishie
Praying for you and your family. I’m so very sorry for the decades of hurt that you’ve all endured.
My husband was killed in a military plane crash three weeks before our first anniversary and three months before our son’s birth. The row has been long, uneven, weedy, and definitely hard to hoe. I was often overwhelmed, even with the moral support of my dear parents, but I had only one child who didn’t understand why God took his daddy to “hebben.” I’m 78, he’s 55, and we still don’t understand. We’ve heard the platitudes and uttered them ourselves, but we don’t understand. Some things we must take on faith or cease to exist.
Knowing the magnitude of what I faced alone, with only one child, I can’t even imagine the devastation and anguish that your poor father encountered. No matter what earthly faults your father may have had, he’s a saint. May you all have more sunshine than rain in your lives in the years ahead, and may you all know eternal happiness together in Heaven. You and your family are in my forever prayer journal, Trishie. Hugs.
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R
Rau
Guest
This is hearsay. If a priest gave that advice, he took it upon himself to depart from church teaching which is unambiguous.My reply that women are being permitted to use birth control when getting pregnant would be dangerous to them was based on posts I’ve read in threads similar to this one. I have read comments by several women who spoke to their priests about this issue and were assured it was permissible.
No, not true. They are open to being ignored.the teachings are obviously open to interpretation.
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