When is it ok to fight people?

[Ben_Sinner]

Like for instance, being bullied or being held at gunpoint or something. When is it acceptable to fight back when one is being physically attacked?

Also, the attacker makes you humiliate yourself like forcing you to beg for mercy if you want the attacker to stop…would it be a sin of pride to not give in to the attacker’s ego and keep your dignity by refusing that request even though it will put you in danger?

…the reason I ask is because there has been alot of crime going on around the town I’m in lately. alot of students have had their houses broken into and have been assaulted…2 have even been stabbed…so I want to prepare just in case I would happen to be the next target.

 

[wanabesaint]

You live in a delusioned world that its self doesnt know when What is worth fighting for, and or what is justified war. so good luck to your answer…

Jesus gave his life rather than to deny his father, and for not dening his father he was hated, spit on, flogged, humiliated, and crowned with thorns.

To kill ones spirrt is a far greater sin than to kill one in the physical sense.
Its often portrayed an attrocity when a mother in states we dont know kill their child, yet we have now a leader that calls for the mutilation and murder of children to sustain a fictional economics.
do you condon that, then you are equally for the murder of children? so why do you care about yourself?
if you see somebody bullying another, and do nothing, then you are condoning the murder of another persons spirit, do you fight and stand agaisnt that?

better to lose your life of this world, than to save it, and lose your life of another world, for this world is of sin as people in the greatest of attrocities often condon and do themselves hill the spririt of others.

Why are other committing crimes, because their hearts are hard, or is it that the US as the soul of the nation in its greed and gluttony now has a defunt economy that has made the people slaves, erasing their charity.

 

[Glomung]

Hard subject, there are no easy answers as the situations can vary all over the place.
IMHO, if attacked you have the right and duty to defend yourself and your property by whatever means is practical, as long as you do not attempt to take revenge for the offence.
For example, if a burglar breaks in, threatens you and you subdue him with a baseball bat you have no right to beat him to death, regardless of his crime that would be murder on your part. If he refuses to submit or will not stop then do what is necessary to stop him.
The same goes for protecting others, get involved when the weak are being abused (prevent the situation when you can, avoiding trouble is the best policy).

Laws vary from state to state, but almost all allow self defense up to and including killing your attacker as long as you were “really threatened” and you do not have rediculously superior fire power. If you unload a shotgun into someone who threatened you with a butter knife don’t expect the police to look on that as “self defense”. Don’t expect God to either.

 

[loozcannon]

Like for instance, being bullied or being held at gunpoint or something. When is it acceptable to fight back when one is being physically attacked?

Also, the attacker makes you humiliate yourself like forcing you to beg for mercy if you want the attacker to stop…would it be a sin of pride to not give in to the attacker’s ego and keep your dignity by refusing that request even though it will put you in danger?

…the reason I ask is because there has been alot of crime going on around the town I’m in lately. alot of students have had their houses broken into and have been assaulted…2 have even been stabbed…so I want to prepare just in case I would happen to be the next target.

My rule of thumb growing up was always “Don’t start fights, but if you find yourself in one, defend yourself.” Doing so may get you in trouble with the school as most public schools (you didn’t say how old you are however, this is just an assumption) at least in the US will punish both parties if both parties fight.

As it’s been said before, “better to be judged by 12, than carried by 6.”

 

[bilop]

Like for instance, being bullied or being held at gunpoint or something. When is it acceptable to fight back when one is being physically attacked?

Also, the attacker makes you humiliate yourself like forcing you to beg for mercy if you want the attacker to stop…would it be a sin of pride to not give in to the attacker’s ego and keep your dignity by refusing that request even though it will put you in danger?

…the reason I ask is because there has been alot of crime going on around the town I’m in lately. alot of students have had their houses broken into and have been assaulted…2 have even been stabbed…so I want to prepare just in case I would happen to be the next target.

It is ALWAYS allowed to fight back if you, or an innocent third party, is attacked. If you, or another person, are threatened with serious harm you are even permitted to use deadly force.

God Bless

 

[JRKH]

Like for instance, being bullied or being held at gunpoint or something. When is it acceptable to fight back when one is being physically attacked?

As already mentioned…this can be a difficult question to answer in a practical “rubber meets the road” way because there are a number of factors in play.

I would suggest that you begin by prayerfully reviewing This Section of the Catechism to help you.

As a general rule - in the case of a break in - it is morally acceptable to fight back with sufficient force to block or repel the attack and (possibly) subdue the attacker.

Also, the attacker makes you humiliate yourself like forcing you to beg for mercy if you want the attacker to stop…would it be a sin of pride to not give in to the attacker’s ego and keep your dignity by refusing that request even though it will put you in danger?

I do not think that one can give a hard-fast “rule” on this. Best to pray on this so that should the situation ever arise, the Holy Spirit will immediately be there to comfort and guide you.

…the reason I ask is because there has been alot of crime going on around the town I’m in lately. alot of students have had their houses broken into and have been assaulted…2 have even been stabbed…so I want to prepare just in case I would happen to be the next target.

My suggestion is that you do whatever you can to make your home “uninviting” to would be criminals. Also look into non-lethal defense items like pepper spray…Small inexpensive door and window alarms can prevent you from being taken unawares and thinking through and practicing a defensive plan - for example…
Placing small, battery powered alarm on doors and windows alert you to intrusion.
Having a phone nearby to call 911 FIRST THING
Keeping your bedroom door closed and locked is added protection - but of course will not stop a determined attacker…
Being trained in the use of pepper spray or stun gun, could be useful but in truth I would not rule out the validity of the use of deadly force (a firearm) at this point. I say this because if a person is willing to break into a locked house AND break down a locked bedroom door (indicating that the owner concedes the rest of the house) it is reasonable to assume that they INTEND bodily assault and not simple robbery.
And while from a Christian standpoint one might personally be perfectly willing to submit and even die rather than kill…your defense becomes less about protecting yourself and more about protecting the person who would undoubtedly be attacked tomorrow or the next day.

Hope this helps a little…

Peace
James

 

[R_C]

From the Catechism, the part on the life in Christ, the section on the Ten Commandments, the chapter on loving our neighbor as ourselves:

ARTICLE 5
THE FIFTH COMMANDMENT

Legitimate defense

2263 The legitimate defense of persons and societies is not an exception to the prohibition against the murder of the innocent that constitutes intentional killing. “The act of self-defense can have a double effect: the preservation of one’s own life; and the killing of the aggressor. . . . The one is intended, the other is not.”

2264 Love toward oneself remains a fundamental principle of morality. Therefore it is legitimate to insist on respect for one’s own right to life. Someone who defends his life is not guilty of murder even if he is forced to deal his aggressor a lethal blow:

If a man in self-defense uses more than necessary violence, it will be unlawful: whereas if he repels force with moderation, his defense will be lawful. . . . Nor is it necessary for salvation that a man omit the act of moderate self-defense to avoid killing the other man, since one is bound to take more care of one’s own life than of another’s.

2265 Legitimate defense can be not only a right but a grave duty for one who is responsible for the lives of others. The defense of the common good requires that an unjust aggressor be rendered unable to cause harm. For this reason, those who legitimately hold authority also have the right to use arms to repel aggressors against the civil community entrusted to their responsibility.

2266 The efforts of the state to curb the spread of behavior harmful to people’s rights and to the basic rules of civil society correspond to the requirement of safeguarding the common good. Legitimate public authority has the right and duty to inflict punishment proportionate to the gravity of the offense. Punishment has the primary aim of redressing the disorder introduced by the offense. When it is willingly accepted by the guilty party, it assumes the value of expiation. Punishment then, in addition to defending public order and protecting people’s safety, has a medicinal purpose: as far as possible, it must contribute to the correction of the guilty party.

However, the “beg for mercy” and “humiliate” and “dignity”, that’s all pride speaking here. Life is the only thing that matters. To risk death out of pride is gravely sinful. Remember all that Christ endured, yet He never lost His divine dignity, the dignity of the Son of God, of the Lord of Heaven and Earth. There are times in which enduring humiliation is the true sign of courage and strength and dignity.

I will pray for your intentions and I hope you add to your self-defense preparations effort daily prayers to St. Michael the Archangel, for instance this one and his litany.

 

[Ben_Sinner]

From the Catechism, the part on the life in Christ, the section on the Ten Commandments, the chapter on loving our neighbor as ourselves:

However, the “beg for mercy” and “humiliate” and “dignity”, that’s all pride speaking here. Life is the only thing that matters. To risk death out of pride is gravely sinful. Remember all that Christ endured, yet He never lost His divine dignity, the dignity of the Son of God, of the Lord of Heaven and Earth. There are times in which enduring humiliation is the true sign of courage and strength and dignity.

I will pray for your intentions and I hope you add to your self-defense preparations effort daily prayers to St. Michael the Archangel, for instance this one and his litany.

But what if it’s just more than begging for mercy? What if the victim is ordered to do humiliating things like strip naked, allow the attacker to rape/molest you, do some type of harm to your body, etc.?..for example…someone is in prison and is cornered by other prisoners because the prisoners want to make him…I’m going to use a prison term here…a “b----”…and would have to perform oral sex or some other homosexual action to avoid being killed.

 

[R_C]

But what if it’s just more than begging for mercy? What if the victim is ordered to do humiliating things like strip naked, allow the attacker to rape/molest you, do some type of harm to your body, etc.?..for example…someone is in prison and is cornered by other prisoners because the prisoners want to make him…I’m going to use a prison term here…a “b----”…and would have to perform oral sex or some other homosexual action to avoid being killed.

My goodness, these are very harsh circumnstances, I understand your concern. This is hard to answer.

The first example that comes to mind is St. Maria Goretti, who refused to consent to be abused by an attacker who threatened to kill her, and as a result she was stabbed to death, and she is rightfully honored as a martyr of chastity.

I pray that nobody find himself in this situation, though unfortunately they do take place. In such a circumnstance.

I wonder if there are any good writings on this matter. I am sure that this is an issue that must have been addressed throughout time. I’ll look around and see if I can find something.

 

[Christianus_Dei]

Read up on Thomas Aquinas’(or was it Saint Augustine’s?) “Just war” writings.

 

[JRKH]

But what if it’s just more than begging for mercy? What if the victim is ordered to do humiliating things like strip naked, allow the attacker to rape/molest you, do some type of harm to your body, etc.?..for example…someone is in prison and is cornered by other prisoners because the prisoners want to make him…I’m going to use a prison term here…a “b----”…and would have to perform oral sex or some other homosexual action to avoid being killed.

A person cannot sin (at least not mortally) by being forced to do something under imminent threat of death.

That said, there have been people who HAVE died in defense of their chastity, St Maria Goretti being a prominent example.

As far as being forced to do various “humiliating” acts - one cannot inflict humiliation on anyone who simply refuses to accept it.
Torture is, of course, an entirely different thing and the best defense there is to try your best not to be a target.

As I mentioned earlier these things do not have hard and fast answers. They require much prayer.

As we have suggested to you though, the best thing to do is to take whatever steps you can to reduce the likelihood of becoming a target. Alarms, door jambs, pepper spray, plan of escape, cell phone near by to call 911…You can also do a google search of for articles and suggestions…

Peace
James

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

If you unload a shotgun into someone who threatened you with a butter knife don’t expect the police to look on that as “self defense”. Don’t expect God to either.

Something is off here:

Who in their right mind would challenge a shotgun with a butter knife!?

 

[Rand_Al_Thor]

Read up on Thomas Aquinas’(or was it Saint Augustine’s?) “Just war” writings.

It was St. Augustine.