When Is Judging Neccessary?

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cena said:
You can judge action are right or wrong but you can’t judge the state of someone else’s soul or where they are gonna go for all eternity.

Fraternal correction is in the bible
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Fraternal correction is an act of charity, and thus is good, christofirst, which you are neglecting to see. I will argue no further with you. You are wrong to condemn fraternal correction as wrong. God bless you.
 
Judging is a necessary part of life. It only becomes bad if one judges without the intent to reform that judgement as new information is presented.I personally create a preliminary hypothesis of who a person is, all the while keeping in mind that it may be necessary to revise my original judgement. If one does not do this then one is in danger of being prejudice. Which we all know is a misjudgement in itself.

spiritvine.net/
 
From the Catholic Encyclopedia, for those who do not properly understand Fraternal Correction and when they are BOUND to use it:

“Fraternal correction is here taken to mean the admonishing of one’s neighbor by a private individual with the purpose of reforming him or, if possible, preventing his sinful indulgence. This is clearly distinguishable from an official disciplining, whose mouthpiece is a judge or other like superior, whose object is the punishment of one found to be guilty, and whose motive is not so directly the individual advantage of the offender as the furtherance of the common good. That there is, upon occasion and with due regard to circumstances, an obligation to administer fraternal correction there can be no doubt. This is a conclusion not only deducible from the natural law binding us to love and to assist one another, but also explicitly contained in positive precept such as the inculcation of Christ: “If thy brother shall offend against thee, go, and rebuke him between thee and him alone. If he shall hear thee, thou shalt gain thy brother” (Matthew 18:15). Given a sufficiently grave condition of spiritual distress calling for succour in this way, this commandment may exact fulfilment under pain of mortal sin. This is reckoned to be so only when
•the delinquency to be corrected or prevented is a grievous one;
•there is no good reason to believe that the sinner will adequately provide for himself;
•there is a well-founded expectation that the admonition will be heeded;
•there is no one else just as well fitted for this work of Christian charity and likely to undertake it;
•there is no special trouble or disadvantage accruing to the reformer as a result of his zeal.
Practically, however, individuals without any official capacity are seldom impeachable as having seriously transgressed the law in this matter because it is but rarely one finds the coalition of circumstances just enumerated.
Of course the reproof is to be administered privately, i.e. directly to the delinquent and not in the presence of others. This is plainly the method appointed by Christ in the words just cited and only as a remedy for obduracy is any other contemplated by Him. Still there are occasions upon which one might lawfully proceed in a different way. For instance
•when the offence is a public one;
•when it makes for the prejudice of a third party or perhaps even the entire community;
•when it can only be condignly dealt with by the authority of a superior paternally exercised;
•when a public rebuke is necessary to preclude scandal: witness the withstanding of Peter by Paul mentioned in the Epistle to the Galatians (2:11-14);
•when the offender has already in advance relinquished whatever right he possessed to have his good name safeguarded, as is the custom in some religious bodies.
The obligation of fraternal correction, so far as private persons go, does not obtain, generally speaking, for the case of one who violates a law through invincible ignorance. The obvious reason is that there is then no immunity for it is their duty to instruct their subordinates. Every one, however, whether having an official competency or not, is bound to give the admonition when the sin, committed though it be from ignorance, is hurtful to the offender or a third party or is the occasion of scandal.”

(Emphasis in boldface is mine.)
 
The reason our Lord challenged us to “not judge” was not because it makes sense to us or that it doesn’t meet our fancy.

It’s because it goes against all of our senses, the senses that we must mortify in order to die to our desires and passions, including the desire to “fraternally correct” our brothers to the point where any given conversation between sinner and “fraternal corrector” clearly shows that they are both blind to how their own emotions and passions to be right and to “be right about sin in others” as a Good Catholic. And we do this in the name of He who told us JUST DON’T.

He challenged us because NOBODY WILL EVEN TRY taking Him at His word. Even in the enlightened age of the 21st century, we refuse to even contemplate for a MOMENT, that MAYBE our Lord had something going for Him other than, “guys be careful when you judge because I need you to do that for me because I’m not capable of handling it Myself. K. Thanks.”

Now I challenge anybody who is put off by this, to take a deep breath, and calm down for a few minutes, and then try. Just try to imagine a world when it’s Not Your Job to tell everyone else of their faults. That’s all the Savior was asking us to do, not to become blithering idiots for our inability to deal with each others’ sinful nature. The Truth in things like this can only be found through obedience, not scholarly debate about whether God’s ideas are worth considering before we pollute them with our sinful Better Minds about how Christian life should go down than the one whose example we are ostensibly following.
 
TRUE “fraternal correction” excepted, but with reservations because in any given situation it typically is neither completely ego-free or completely other-centered. A Good Friend can call me on my issues, but I don’t even consider that “judging.” It is telling them what I see. A non-friend would fail to tell me I have egg on my face. An enemy would snap it and post it on Facebook. A friend tells me confidentially and privately like it describes in the Encyclopedia Ready quoted.

After reading that whole post I decided that was not part of my targeted behavior. But it’s also something that should come up infrequently, and be quickly dispensed with. Not as a way of life judging this politician wrong and this neighbor wrong and this Internet poster wrong. I’d like to see a histogram on the number of each spiritual work of mercy attempted over the Internet. I bet the number of hits on “admonish the sinner” tops the rest of them combined.

We blush and say, “oh but we’re all sinners” but then we act like God’s Gift to the harvest, and go weeding out everybody else’s closet, leaving our own in a mess and subsequently try to get theirs to match.
 
Mystical_Seeker said:
The reason our Lord challenged us to “not judge” was not because it makes sense to us or that it doesn’t meet our fancy.

It’s because it goes against all of our senses, the senses that we must mortify in order to die to our desires and passions, including the desire to “fraternally correct” our brothers to the point where any given conversation between sinner and “fraternal corrector” clearly shows that they are both blind to how their own emotions and passions to be right and to “be right about sin in others” as a Good Catholic. And we do this in the name of He who told us JUST DON’T.

He challenged us because NOBODY WILL EVEN TRY taking Him at His word. Even in the enlightened age of the 21st century, we refuse to even contemplate for a MOMENT, that MAYBE our Lord had something going for Him other than, “guys be careful when you judge because I need you to do that for me because I’m not capable of handling it Myself. K. Thanks.”

Now I challenge anybody who is put off by this, to take a deep breath, and calm down for a few minutes, and then try. Just try to imagine a world when it’s Not Your Job to tell everyone else of their faults. That’s all the Savior was asking us to do, not to become blithering idiots for our inability to deal with each others’ sinful nature. The Truth in things like this can only be found through obedience, not scholarly debate about whether God’s ideas are worth considering before we pollute them with our sinful Better Minds about how Christian life should go down than the one whose example we are ostensibly following.
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Fraternal correction is a spiritual work of mercy. If you correct a grave sin you could save that person from being obstinate and potentially prevent them from being damned

15 - Beware of false prophets, who come to you in the clothing of sheep, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
16 - By their fruits you shall know them. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
17 - Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit, and the evil tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
18 - A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can an evil tree bring forth good fruit.
19 - Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit, shall be cut down, and shall be cast into the fire.
20 - Wherefore by their fruits you shall know them.
21 - Not every one that saith to me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven: but he that doth the will of my Father who is in heaven, he shall enter into the kingdom of heaven.
22 - Many will say to me in that day: Lord, Lord, have not we prophesied in thy name, and cast out devils in thy name, and done many miracles in thy name?
23 - And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, you that work iniquity.

We are supposed to judge false prophets, I guess.
 
Mystical_Seeker said:
TRUE “fraternal correction” excepted, but with reservations because in any given situation it typically is neither completely ego-free or completely other-centered. A Good Friend can call me on my issues, but I don’t even consider that “judging.” It is telling them what I see. A non-friend would fail to tell me I have egg on my face. An enemy would snap it and post it on Facebook. A friend tells me confidentially and privately like it describes in the Encyclopedia Ready quoted.

After reading that whole post I decided that was not part of my targeted behavior. But it’s also something that should come up infrequently, and be quickly dispensed with. Not as a way of life judging this politician wrong and this neighbor wrong and this Internet poster wrong. I’d like to see a histogram on the number of each spiritual work of mercy attempted over the Internet. I bet the number of hits on “admonish the sinner” tops the rest of them combined.

We blush and say, “oh but we’re all sinners” but then we act like God’s Gift to the harvest, and go weeding out everybody else’s closet, leaving our own in a mess and subsequently try to get theirs to match.
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Again you only have to fraternal correct someone if they are committing a grave sin. Jesus complained that the Pharisees were correcting and judging people for their little sins when they committed big ones. He said after you take the beam out of you own eye(stop sinning gravely) you can help your neighbor.
 
ready said:
👍

Fraternal correction is an act of charity, and thus is good, christofirst, which you are neglecting to see. I will argue no further with you. You are wrong to condemn fraternal correction as wrong. God bless you.
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God bless you too, ready, and have a blessed Christmas!
 
cena said:
Again you only have to fraternal correct someone if they are committing a grave sin. Jesus complained that the Pharisees were correcting and judging people for their little sins when they committed big ones. He said after you take the beam out of you own eye(stop sinning gravely) you can help your neighbor.
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Yes. Haughty and self-righteous seem to be higher than the other types of sins, in terms of things that Got Jesus going off in a big way.

It’s one thing to be a sinner and hide behind my perceived justifications that hopefully will explain to myself why I’m the way I am and am OK with it, or I can allow such fraternal correction to penetrate my persona – the false on that we are to deny before we can follow Jesus. When I open myself to accusations then whether they are justified or not they will either find a flaw and expose it, or verify a non-flaw. Either way, the experience can bring me closer to God. Unless my ego-persona gets in the way and stops it. That would truly exemplify the “contraceptive mentality.” It prevents life from being transmitted during a spiritual/social/physical interaction.
 
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