When is Masturbation not grave matter?

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I have been looking at Catholic Dogma.

Since Masturbation is nowhere in the Bible, and Jesus didn’t mention it specifically, can we term this as a virtually revealed truth?
I know very little about this, but here is a quote from Catholic Encyclopedia:

The three classes of revealed truths. Theologians distinguish three classes of revealed truths: truths formally and explicitly revealed; truths revealed formally, but only implicitly; and truths only virtually revealed.

A truth is said to be formally revealed, when the speaker or revealer really means to convey that truth by his language, to guarantee it by the authority of his word. The revelation is formal and explicit, when made in clear express terms. It is formal but only implicit, when the language is somewhat obscure, when the rules of interpretation must be carefully employed to determine the meaning of the revelation. **And a truth is said to be revealed only virtually, when it is not formally guaranteed by the word of the speaker, but is inferred from something formally revealed. **

But then, is masturbation ever formally revealed, I think not.

So then whas this truth ever revealed?

Seriously…I want to know where this comes from.

PM
 
PennitentMan said:
I have been looking at Catholic Dogma.

Since Masturbation is nowhere in the Bible, and Jesus didn’t mention it specifically, can we term this as a virtually revealed truth?
I know very little about this, but here is a quote from Catholic Encyclopedia:

The three classes of revealed truths. Theologians distinguish three classes of revealed truths: truths formally and explicitly revealed; truths revealed formally, but only implicitly; and truths only virtually revealed.

A truth is said to be formally revealed, when the speaker or revealer really means to convey that truth by his language, to guarantee it by the authority of his word. The revelation is formal and explicit, when made in clear express terms. It is formal but only implicit, when the language is somewhat obscure, when the rules of interpretation must be carefully employed to determine the meaning of the revelation. **And a truth is said to be revealed only virtually, when it is not formally guaranteed by the word of the speaker, but is inferred from something formally revealed. **

But then, is masturbation ever formally revealed, I think not.

So then whas this truth ever revealed?

Seriously…I want to know where this comes from.

PM
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You really seem to be reaching for a life line here. Talk with your Priest, you may also be suffering from Scrupulosity…again talk with a Priest and ask for their help and guidance on this issue.
 
Just don’t do it while you are driving or operating heavy machinary.
 
PennitentMan,

I empathise with you. I fear that you are in a situation where Satan is insidiously trying to pull you away from the path God has for you. Remember how the devil operates. His methods are not always obvious. Keep in mind how we are to deal with the attacks, traps, lies, and deceits of the devil:

8 Be of sober spirit, be on the alert Your adversary, the devil, prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour.
9 But resist him, firm in your faith, knowing that the same experiences of suffering are being accomplished by your brethren who are in the world.
10 After you have suffered for a little while, the God of all grace, who called you to His eternal glory in Christ, will Himself perfect, confirm, strengthen and establish you. (1 Peter 5:8-10)
From firsthand experience, I know how very difficult and frustrating the experience you have described in this thread can be. However, you must still fight the good fight. You must stay on the path. God never promised us an easy go of it.

Is your wife a believer? If so, you may want to gently and lovingly approach her with the words of 1 Cor 7:4-5:

4 The wife does not have authority over her own body, but the husband does; and likewise also the husband does not have authority over his own body, but the wife does.
5 Stop depriving one another, except by agreement for a time, so that you may devote yourselves to prayer, and come together again so that Satan will not tempt you because of your lack of self-control.

In this context, it seems that Satan may be co-opting your wife to some degree in an attempt to ensnare you as well. You must not let that happen. Masturbation is not the answer; the lure of it is simply an empty illusion that Satan is using to lead you toward further despair. Pray for your wife. Pray for your marriage. Ask others to do so as well. I will pray for both of you.

While it’s true that your wife is under obligation to not withhold physical intimacy from you, please remember that God made her the weaker member of the marital relationship:

7 You husbands in the same way, live with your wives in an understanding way, as with someone weaker, since she is a woman; and show her honor as a fellow heir of the grace of life, so that your prayers will not be hindered. (1 Peter 3:7)

You need to be especially understanding and forgiving of her weaknesses and failings. In the end, no matter what your wife does or does not do, you must fight to keep yourself on the narrow path. Remember that life is largely a struggle between good and evil, the physical and the spiritual. You must battle Satan every day:

11 Put on the full armor of God, so that you will be able to stand firm against the schemes of the devil.
12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the powers, against the world forces of this darkness, against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places.
13 Therefore, take up the full armor of God, so that you will be able to resist in the evil day, and having done everything, to stand firm. (Ephesians 6:11-13)

24 Do you not know that those who run in a race all run, but only one receives the prize? Run in such a way that you may win.
25 Everyone who competes in the games exercises self-control in all things They then do it to receive a perishable wreath, but we an imperishable.
26 Therefore I run in such a way, as not without aim; I box in such a way, as not beating the air;
27 but I discipline my body and make it my slave, so that, after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified. (1 Cor 9:24-27)

Good luck, my friend. I will be praying for you and your family.
 
PennitentMan said:
Yes, you all knew this question was coming.

The Cathecism defines Masturbation as a grave matter, but they also make certain allowances.

I also want to make the distinction between grave matter and mortal sin, since mortal sin only occurres if the three conditions are met.

Now, I know that a lot of you will say “always”, but here is what the CCC says:

I also know that I will probably get reprimanded by some of you saying that I should just be as chaste as possible, and that I’m just looking for a loophole in the system.
Not so. I want to be as chaste a husband as I possible can, but what if I do stumble?
Fact is that if I stumble and we go to a morning Mass the next day, and I don’t receive, my wife will immediately ask what is up, and if that comes out, Oh Boy…I would hurt her really badly possibly to the point of separation. She really takes this seriously, and I do too.

I’m asking this to find out what happens if I do stumble when I am in the situation I’m in. Most of you know the situation, since you have been following all my posts.
I’m worried about the road ahead, and even though I try my best to remain chaste, I do need to think of what would happen in that event.

Honestly, I’m going a but nutty over here from frustration. If the above was just acceptable, all my problems would disappear! Anyway, maybe these are the wishes of a desperate man…

Honestly, will this not be better than to feel the way I do, to feel that gut-wrenching guilt every time an attractive girl walks by, even if I didn’t look at her? (And I work closely with two of those), to be depressed, to be grumpy, to keep all these feelings bottled up inside?
Logically, not Catholically speaking, it’s a no-brainer, but I respect the Church and try to be chaste, but at what cost?

Thanks for the honest feedback

PM.
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Speak to your confessor about this…but you need to take into consideration your wife and family. Consider making a perfect act of contrition, receive the Blessed Sacrament and then go to confession at the nearest possible time. Consider going to weekly confession and if you fail and risk a scene with your wife and children then make a perfect act of contrition.

Keep up the good work. Don’t let the devil get you frustrated.
 
llowwelll said:
In this context, it seems that Satan may be co-opting your wife to some degree in an attempt to ensnare you as well. You must not let that happen. Masturbation is not the answer; the lure of it is simply an empty illusion that Satan is using to lead you toward further despair. Pray for your wife. Pray for your marriage. Ask others to do so as well. I will pray for both of you.
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Good luck, my friend. I will be praying for you and your family.
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Thanks llowwelll, for the prayers. I do so much pray for us already, but thanks.

I’m still in the fight though!
 
SHEMP said:
Speak to your confessor about this…but you need to take into consideration your wife and family. Consider making a perfect act of contrition, receive the Blessed Sacrament and then go to confession at the nearest possible time. Consider going to weekly confession and if you fail and risk a scene with your wife and children then make a perfect act of contrition.

Keep up the good work. Don’t let the devil get you frustrated.
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I agree with the confessor but I don’t know of anyone (other than Christ) who can make a perfect act of contrition 🙂
 
PM, honey, you’re never going to find what you’re looking for. It’s not there. For you, because of your understanding of the subject and the fact that you are not addicted or otherwise less free in your choice of whether to commit this act, it will be mortally sinful. Cross this off your list of possible solutions to your problem.

Add to the list: A visit to the doctor for your wife. You said in an earlier post that she has not been to the doc recently. There may be something that a simple blood test might reveal that could be easily corrected. If she’s tired, stressed and uninterested, there is very possibly something physical that is wrong.

I know this situation is very difficult for you, and I am very impressed with your efforts to make your wife happy. Perhaps you should do a very honest self-evaluation to see if your desperation is evident in any of your interactions with her. As a woman, I can tell you that desperation is very off-putting. It’s not fair, but it’s true. Wait and see if she pursues you. I know what you’re thinking - it will be a looooong wait! 🙂 But how worth it if she gets more interested!

Also add to your list: A talk with your priest about the temptations you experience, and the mental sins you commit, which you fear would prevent your receiving Holy Communion at daily Mass. He may be able to ease your conscience about this issue. And there’s always the “breaking the fast” trick. Grab a cup of coffee or something off the baby’s plate before you leave if you can’t receive. Then you have a totally different apparent reason. You look a little foolish, but it works.

God bless you - keep praying!

Betsy
 
SHEMP said:
Speak to your confessor about this…but you need to take into consideration your wife and family. Consider making a perfect act of contrition, receive the Blessed Sacrament and then go to confession at the nearest possible time. Consider going to weekly confession and if you fail and risk a scene with your wife and children then make a perfect act of contrition.

Keep up the good work. Don’t let the devil get you frustrated.
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How does one make a perfect act of contrition?
It seems almost impossible…
 
baltobetsy said:
PM, honey, you’re never going to find what you’re looking for. It’s not there. For you, because of your understanding of the subject and the fact that you are not addicted or otherwise less free in your choice of whether to commit this act, it will be mortally sinful. Cross this off your list of possible solutions to your problem.
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Thanks Betsy.
Serious self-phsycho-analysis to follow here:
I think deep down I know this. But also I think that if I finally admist to this, I’ll be right back where I started, feeling very dispondent with the whole situation, and also, (to a degree) with the Church.
If I exhaust this final option then I’ll be sitting with my hands tied, and no possible solution for an unnamed period of time…
And during that time, I become more depressed, more frustrated, more…well, you get the idea…

So, I try to exhust every possible solution. It really does seem like so much the lesser evil…

Thank you for the prayers!
PM
 
PM, honestly, I don’t think the problem here is the Church. Even if masturbation was allowed, there’d still be the fact that your wife won’t fulfill your needs, which again, doesn’t seem to be about the birth control ban either, she sounds completely uninterested and unsympathetic so she possibly wouldn’t want sex even if y’all weren’t practicing NFP. None of us are in your situation, and we don’t know your wife, but from what you say, it’s not even just about sex. You have a right to and a need for something, and she’s almost completely brushing you off, and she seems to have an unhealthy lack of desire for something she should want. Seriously, I understand that you don’t want to cause an argument, but this could severely harm your marriage, and it’s serious enough to fight about.
 
I have - and sometimes still do - wear the shoes your wife is walking in. I have been blessed with a very low sex drive. My husband has been blessed with a very high sex drive. We have had many a discussion over it. I always feel like the “weird one” in the marriage…like it’s all MY problem. I do feel bad for my husband’s frustrations and wish I were more compatible with him where our sexual appetites are concerned. I’ve come to the conclusion that God wires us all differently. My husband makes sacrifices and I also must make sacrifices. Your wife may need to realize that making love to you requires a great sacrifice on her part (for whatever reason). So be it. Isn’t marriage basically a call to sacrifice our lives for one another? She needs to contemplate the cross and ask herself what she is willing to give for the sake of her marraige and her husband. When she loves you, she is ultimately loving Jesus. And if she REALLY loves Jesus, she will find a way to love you…the way you need to be loved.

I would stop focusing on whether masturbation is a serious sin or when it becomes a serious sin or where the Bible says that it is a serious sin. The Church has spoken on this matter and trying to “work around it” so that you can justify potentially falling prey to the temptation of it just seems like a HUGE waste of time to me.

You and your wife really need to come to terms with how you are going to deal with your incompatible sex drives. You both need to be patient with each other and pray for wisdom and understanding. She needs to know that this problem isn’t going to just go away (she’s fooling herself if she thinks it will). If space is what she needs right now, be patient but also don’t let her avoid confronting the issue at a later time.

A big help and “light bulb moment” for me was reading Christopher West’s Theology of the Body. I’m not sure if she’d be open to reading a book like this right now, but you should if you haven’t already.

I wish I could tell you that after 12 years of marriage my husband and I have worked out all our incompatibilities where our sex life is concerned. I can’t. We still have our ups and downs. I’m sure my husband’s cross feels heavier some months than others. We are very committed to our marriage and we both believe that our purpose in life is to help the other get to heaven. We are willing to make the tough sacrfices (even when we don’t FEEL like it at the moment). Loving my husband isn’t about a “feeling” it is about a choice. Your wife needs to make the choice to make love to you despite how she might be feeling. That’s what true love is.
 
PennitentMan,
Thanks llowwelll, for the prayers. I do so much pray for us already, but thanks.
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You’re welcome!
Honestly, will this not be better than to feel the way I do, to feel that gut-wrenching guilt every time an attractive girl walks by, even if I didn’t look at her? (And I work closely with two of those), to be depressed, to be grumpy, to keep all these feelings bottled up inside?
Logically, not Catholically speaking, it’s a no-brainer, but I respect the Church and try to be chaste, but at what cost?
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I wanted to make a couple more comments in response to the question you posited in your first post. You asked “at what cost” must your respect for the Church and trying to be chaste come. That’s a good question and I have certainly struggled with that one before. I’m not going to pretend to have the answer, but I think I can offer a few thoughts that may be useful to you.

First, the cost for any of us to adhere to God’s commandments and His plan for our life may be quite high. Some of us may have to pay the ultimate price. The Bible and Christian Tradition are replete with instructions, demands, stories, etc that outline the demands on us as Christians. The story of the rich, young man in Matthew 19:16-26 is but one example of what is demanded of us. In John 12:25, Jesus summarized how demanding the Christian life is, “He who loves his life loses it, and he who hates his life in this world will keep it to life eternal.” Jesus also said in John 15:13, “Greater love has no one than this, that one lay down his life for his friends.” In other words, your faith may one day demand that you give up your life. Short of death, much discomfort may still be demanded from us as Paul outlined in 2 Cor 11:23-27:

23 Are they servants of Christ?–I speak as if insane–I more so; in far more labors, in far more imprisonments, beaten times without number, often in danger of death.
24 Five times I received from the Jews thirty-nine lashes.
25 Three times I was beaten with rods, once I was stoned, three times I was shipwrecked, a night and a day I have spent in the deep.
26 I have been on frequent journeys, in dangers from rivers, dangers from robbers, dangers from my countrymen, dangers from the Gentiles, dangers in the city, dangers in the wilderness, dangers on the sea, dangers among false brethren;
27 I have been in labor and hardship, through many sleepless nights, in hunger and thirst, often without food, in cold and exposure.

Christian history is full of stories of people who have paid a very heavy price for their faith. Off the top of my head, the story of St. Maximilian Kolbe comes to mind.

After reflecting on Maximilian’s story, and the stories of so many martyrs and others who have truly dedicated their entire lives to Christ (think Mother Theresa), it begins to become clearer what cost may be expected for us to pay in our Christian walk.

Second, when you ask about the cost to yourself personally for not maturbating in response to your wife’s lack of sexual intimacy I think you also have to be concerned about the cost to your soul if you do masturbate. Some of that cost is outlined very well in this letter from the Bishop in Kansas City. Whenever we tread away from God’s plan, we run a risk. That risk is the ultimate risk; eternal damnation. Jesus describes this risk here:

21"Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.
22"Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’
23"And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.’ (Matthew 7:21-23)

I hope this helps as well. I’m certainly not trying to be condescending. I’ve struggled with some of the same issues and wanted to pass on some of the things that helped me grapple with them.
 
Pman

Longish thread, but I think you mentioned somewhere that sex for you was about once a month?! Man that’s bad! 1 Cor 7 speaks about marriage and suggests that one of the main reasons for marriage is for sexual gratification.

Verse 5 even states : ‘Do not deprive each other except by mutual consent and for a time, so that you may devote yourselves to prayer. Then come together again so that Satan will not tempt you because of your lack of self-control’

You’re not coming together enough, man! … and it sure sounds like it ain’t by ‘mutual consent’ and as a result, Satan is tempting you!

Bro, I applaud the fact that you’re dealing with this at this website instead of millions of other, let’s say ‘less than Christian’ websites!

I’m gonna hazard an educated, and biblical, guess here - your predicament will be, more or less, solved once your wife does as per 1 Cor 7:3 “The husband should fulfill his marital duty to his wife, and likewise the wife to her husband.”

I agree with litllulu -

MARRIAGE COUNSELLING! - and get it quick man! Satan roams around like a roaring lion ready to pounce … and you’re looking ripe for the picking!
 
Hi there gang.

I wanted to let you all know that last night we consumated our marriage again!
Oh how wonderful and intimate it was, the closeness I felt to my wife, was amazing, really what I’'ve been yearning for.

Thank you all for your prayers for me and her so far, it really helped! 🙂

This is a good first step forward for us, thank you again! :)🙂

PM
 
PennitentMan said:
Oh how wonderful and intimate it was, the closeness I felt to my wife, was amazing, really what I’'ve been yearning for.
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Is your wife equally happy? I think we’ve gotten a major insight by your complete omission of any reference to how Mrs. PM felt about it. Sorry to be so blunt.

Betsy
 
baltobetsy said:
Is your wife equally happy? I think we’ve gotten a major insight by your complete omission of any reference to how Mrs. PM felt about it. Sorry to be so blunt.

Betsy
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Sorry, I should have mentioned that too 🙂
Mrs PM was very happy and satisfied with it too, and it really did bring us closer again.
PM
 
PM,

I’m very happy for you both, my brother. Good for you guys! I have to believe the power of prayer worked a little miracle here. I know that I have said several prayers in the last day or so for you guys and I’m sure many others here have as well.

Keep fighting the good fight. Do not succumb to Satan. I will continue to pray for you two.
 
llowwelll said:
PM,

I’m very happy for you both, my brother. Good for you guys! I have to believe the power of prayer worked a little miracle here. I know that I have said several prayers in the last day or so for you guys and I’m sure many others here have as well.

Keep fighting the good fight. Do not succumb to Satan. I will continue to pray for you two.
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Thank you for all the prayers, I truly believe it was due to all your prayers that we took this step forward together.

Thanks y’all!
PM
 
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