When is Masturbation not grave matter?

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InTheWilderness said:
As someone who struggles with many things, and has often tried to reason their own way into thinking something was OK, let me say everything you have written seems like something from one of my own internal debates (though the circumstances are totally different).

I keep looking for some easy way out, but the easy way isn’t the Christian way. The hard way is the right way. I don’t always follow it, but at some level I recognize the truth of that.

It seems like you also know, at some level, the answers to your own questions. You just don’t like them, and you may not know quite how to live them. That is the case with me at times.

To the poster that said to refrain from communion after a grave act, I didn’t realize that was the norm. I knew we should not receive in the case of mortal sin, but I did not realize that a grave act was the standard. That actually makes things a bit simpler in most cases, less risk of self deception regarding the other conditions, and thus less risk of an unintentionally sacrilegious act.

Every day is a struggle of some sort, at least on the days I make an attempt to fight the good fight. The only easy days are the ones where I give up and give in to temptation.
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Amen to that last one! You are right on the mark about it all here…
 
I’m striving to understand that men in our situation is left with no option.
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PMan, you were really making progress in your threads and then you slipped back into this “stinkin’ thinkin’”. You KNOW that you have options but you don’t want those that the Church offers. Why is this situation any different from any other where we, as humans, find ourselves neglected, forgotten, denied or rejected by those we love? And what are we, as Catholics expected to do with our hurt and loneliness and hopelessness? We are called to unite ALL our sufferings with Christ, to “offer them up”, to look at them as unique oppotunities to make a sacrifice of ourselves to God. I know you think your situation is unique but it is not. We are all called to take up our particular crosses. Many posters have suggested this to you and it seemed like you were beginning to understand. I read once that Christ picks for each of us a specific cross to carry for him. What if this is yours but you refuse to accept it?
I think it’s an area that the Church has either not thought through enough, or has, but lack the understanding of marraige, or has and do understand marraige, but know they cannot change their doctrine so they ignore it…
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Believe me when I say that you are not the first to bring this issue to the Church’s attention. I think it’s a safe bet that since the birth of Christianity, men just like yourself have confronted the “authorities” with all types of scenarios that might mitigate this offense. Yes the Church has always remained steadfast in it’s teaching, not because they have ignored the issue, but because there is nothing new under the sun that could change the immutable fact of her teachings.
I’ll do it because I love Christ. But I don’t understand…
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PMan, you do understand! I know because I have seen you defend the Church’s teaching on this to newcomers on CAF! You are going to become the ultimate evangelist on this issue when Christ gets done working on you. The issue is you don’t understand why the Church can’t change her teachings FOR YOU, and for other men in your seemingly unique situation.
God bless you for persevering in your quest to understand this in your heart.
 
blessedtoo said:
PMan, you were really making progress in your threads and then you slipped back into this “stinkin’ thinkin’”.
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PMan, you do understand! I know because I have seen you defend the Church’s teaching on this to newcomers on CAF! You are going to become the ultimate evangelist on this issue when Christ gets done working on you. The issue is you don’t understand why the Church can’t change her teachings FOR YOU, and for other men in your seemingly unique situation.
God bless you for persevering in your quest to understand this in your heart.
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Thank you for the honest and heartfelt post.

You are right, and some days are better than others…some days it feels easier than others and I guess my posts reflect that.

I do feel that, on the whole I have made progress on this since posting here, and thank you for your confidence in me, especially in that last paragraph. I appreciate that.

I talk to Jesus every morning after the rosary and tell him all my feelings and frustrations and chat to Him as a friend…laying my struggled before Him. That helps too, and I’m almost at the point of picking up this Cross fully…
Maybe it’s because I’m still relatively new at Catholocism (alomst 3 years), or maybe it’s because the attachment to sin is still there…I’m trying to work on it and like Searching06 said, I’m also trying not to overthing the situation…I’m trying to accept it and just go with it. Some days that little voice is just very loud, ya know?!

Thank you for all you guy’s support and prayers, you guys are awesome!!!

PM
 
No PM I think that you are quite awesome, you are proof positive that God loves us all very much!🙂
 
elvisman said:
I’ve know men who have gone to a fertility specialist to find out why their wives weren’t conceiving. The only way to give a “sample” is to masturbate.
Since a couple of them were Catholics, they didn’t pursue artificial or surgical avenues. BUT - BOTH fathered children after they knew what the problem was. They simply avoided things that might have been causing the problem (caffeine, smoking, restrictive clothing, etc.) They also “iced-up”, as it were.
Would this be considered a grave sin?
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I didn’t see anyone address this.

There are two moral ways to give semen samples.
1)using a special perforated condom
2)poist coital (retrieved from the wife after intercourse)

Giving a sample through masterbation is a sin.
There may be a third using an invasive procedure but I’m not certain.
 
PennitentMan said:
Fact is that if I stumble and we go to a morning Mass the next day, and I don’t receive, my wife will immediately ask what is up, and if that comes out, Oh Boy…I would hurt her really badly possibly to the point of separation. She really takes this seriously, and I do too.

PM.
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We used to have nuns that would ask us on Monday mornings why we hadn’t received the day before. Reasons that I remember giving were (1) not going to confession; (2) ate something beforehand, oops!

I know it’s not supposed to be funny but then the other person should be a little more understanding. Some of us may have more scrupulous consciences than others.

God bless.
 
You should discuss this temptation with your confessor, even if you don’t succumb to the temptation. The root of this desire seems to be a slight temptation towards lust, inflamed by the beauty of women. Perhaps a useful way to look at it is you are not seeing the beauty of women in the right way; the beauty is a gift from God, but it doesn’t entitle you to fantasize about having sex with them or sexual thoughts about them (as you are married). You should think of what a woman would feel if she could see your thoughts and the desires of your heart as easily as you can see in the light; that should go some way to quenching this.
 
It is always grave matter. Your culpability may or may not reduce the act to a venial sin. Go to confession as soon as possible after you fall and don’t receive communion until you do.

The reason you are not receiving communion is between you and God. Not your wife’s business. For all she knows the reason could be that you had a cookie before you left for Mass and broke the hour fast. None of us are to judge those who don’t present for communion, spouse or not.

A practical suggestion is to go up for communion behind her and cross your arms and get a blessing.
 
stevusmagnus said:
It is always grave matter. Your culpability may or may not reduce the act to a venial sin. Go to confession as soon as possible after you fall and don’t receive communion until you do.

The reason you are not receiving communion is between you and God. Not your wife’s business. For all she knows the reason could be that you had a cookie before you left for Mass and broke the hour fast. None of us are to judge those who don’t present for communion, spouse or not.

A practical suggestion is to go up for communion behind her and cross your arms and get a blessing.
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Steve, The blessing on the communion line is not an option at every Parish since it is not a GIRM approved practice and EMOHC do not have the ability to give a church blessing. They can only give a personal blessing. So you would have to go on the Priest’s or Deacon’s line and they might not do it anyway.
I’m not encouraging any thread drift into communion line blessings. I only wanted to make the point that it isn’t correct advice in every situation and could actually cause awkwardness .
 
Good to know. In my area, all of the priests and deacon’s give blessings if you cross your arms over your heart. I would have to look it up, but I’m pretty sure it is approved practice. Non-catholics do it all the time as well as little kids who haven’t made first communion. Where did you hear it wasn’t GIRM approved?
 
stevusmagnus said:
Good to know. In my area, all of the priests and deacon’s give blessings if you cross your arms over your heart. I would have to look it up, but I’m pretty sure it is approved practice. Non-catholics do it all the time as well as little kids who haven’t made first communion. Where did you hear it wasn’t GIRM approved?
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I read the GIRM and it is not mentioned there. Also we’ve had that discussion several times on this board. We don’t do it in my Diocese.I’ll PM some resources so as not to interfere in this thread.
 
Thank you to all who have participated. This thread is now closed.
 
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