When is ok to live with your girlfriend?

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I’ve read through many of your postings and many have said wait till marriage, or that she is unfit for marriage etc. This is something new to her, she was emotionally abused in her last relationship a couple of years ago, had a mental breakdown because of stress and now she’s still healing from that abuse.

I would like to clear a couple things up though. I do not view the Course of Action in question as a solution to the problem, nor do I see myself as a primary caregiver. I am not qualified, first off, and secondly, she doesn’t need a caregiver she is perfectly capable of taking care of herself and does so on a regular basis. She goes to a therapist for preventative measures not because it is a common occurrence. She is not debilitated, these attacks happen only when she’s really stressed out and it could be 6-8 months between incidents. Again, its only when she is really stressed out. What she needs is professional help, I would agree completely, yet at the same time it is important to understand that what she also needs is God. The emotional abuse has weakened her own feelings of self-worth. Now while this isn’t a bad thing per se, in this particular situation it is a negative way. I have seen this before, what she needs is to understand her faith and grow closer to God, to see her worth in the eyes of God and understand that he is Love that she is worthy of. This was how the particular case that I am referring too was helped through the situation. Luckily she has both professional help and I am currently seeking to find her a spiritual director as well.

These attacks have only started since 2010 after her mental breakdown and she sees two different therapists that she works with on a regular basis. She is not debilitated to the point of no return, her mental problem is created by an emotionally scarring boyfriend that abused her and took advantage of her. This is not my own analyzation but what her therapists see as well and they see a foreseeable future where she will no longer be on these medications and no longer in therapy because this is not a from birth thing, this is the cause of a very traumatic experience. Her “passing out” is actually a defense mechanism for her body to deal with high volumes of stress.

So what is my role? Its being a good Christian man and taking care of this women that I love. I don’t see her as a broken puzzle piece that needs to be fixed, as a man of faith, I understand that all of God’s creatures are perfect in their creation (barring sin from the equation but we all have free will). God loves this women for who she is, a Child of the Living God, yes she has what the world says is “imperfections” yet it is when you look past such things and look at the soul that see who the true person is. HF Francis embraced the Leper because he saw one thing, that leper was a child of God, not a despicable imperfect creature. The world says she’s broken, put her away, yet God says she is perfect, accept her and bring her closer into your arms.

Someone mentioned loneliness, but when your a Friar you turn your eyes to Christ and realize that he, our most Blessed Savior, was alone, abandoned and forsaken by his Father and us when he was crucified. He feels our pain and we are not alone, nor can a true Franciscan, or Child of God, ever say they are alone because the prayers of the Saints are with them and Christ is beside them.

I do thank everyone for their posts and if many of you wish to continue to post, then please go ahead. I think the best advice given is to talk to my Priest. He is currently out of town though lol and I needed some different ideas on the situation, so I thank all of you Brothers and Sisters in Christ for your responses and aid. 😃
 
FWIW, I was married to a person that had emotional issues. To each their own, but I will never marry such a person again. Would I help them? Of course; it is my duty. Marry them? Never.
 
I’ve read through many of your postings and many have said wait till marriage, or that she is unfit for marriage etc. This is something new to her, she was emotionally abused in her last relationship a couple of years ago, had a mental breakdown because of stress and now she’s still healing from that abuse.

I would like to clear a couple things up though. I do not view the Course of Action in question as a solution to the problem, nor do I see myself as a primary caregiver. I am not qualified, first off, and secondly, she doesn’t need a caregiver she is perfectly capable of taking care of herself and does so on a regular basis. She goes to a therapist for preventative measures not because it is a common occurrence. She is not debilitated, these attacks happen only when she’s really stressed out and it could be 6-8 months between incidents. Again, its only when she is really stressed out. What she needs is professional help, I would agree completely, yet at the same time it is important to understand that what she also needs is God. The emotional abuse has weakened her own feelings of self-worth. Now while this isn’t a bad thing per se, in this particular situation it is a negative way. I have seen this before, what she needs is to understand her faith and grow closer to God, to see her worth in the eyes of God and understand that he is Love that she is worthy of. This was how the particular case that I am referring too was helped through the situation. Luckily she has both professional help and I am currently seeking to find her a spiritual director as well.

These attacks have only started since 2010 after her mental breakdown and she sees two different therapists that she works with on a regular basis. She is not debilitated to the point of no return, her mental problem is created by an emotionally scarring boyfriend that abused her and took advantage of her. This is not my own analyzation but what her therapists see as well and they see a foreseeable future where she will no longer be on these medications and no longer in therapy because this is not a from birth thing, this is the cause of a very traumatic experience. Her “passing out” is actually a defense mechanism for her body to deal with high volumes of stress.

So what is my role? Its being a good Christian man and taking care of this women that I love. I don’t see her as a broken puzzle piece that needs to be fixed, as a man of faith, I understand that all of God’s creatures are perfect in their creation (barring sin from the equation but we all have free will). God loves this women for who she is, a Child of the Living God, yes she has what the world says is “imperfections” yet it is when you look past such things and look at the soul that see who the true person is. HF Francis embraced the Leper because he saw one thing, that leper was a child of God, not a despicable imperfect creature. The world says she’s broken, put her away, yet God says she is perfect, accept her and bring her closer into your arms.

Someone mentioned loneliness, but when your a Friar you turn your eyes to Christ and realize that he, our most Blessed Savior, was alone, abandoned and forsaken by his Father and us when he was crucified. He feels our pain and we are not alone, nor can a true Franciscan, or Child of God, ever say they are alone because the prayers of the Saints are with them and Christ is beside them.

I do thank everyone for their posts and if many of you wish to continue to post, then please go ahead. I think the best advice given is to talk to my Priest. He is currently out of town though lol and I needed some different ideas on the situation, so I thank all of you Brothers and Sisters in Christ for your responses and aid. 😃
Only she has these attacks where she passes out every 6-8 months? And you want to move in? And there’s a friar involved?
OK. I’m confused.
 
Only she has these attacks where she passes out every 6-8 months? And you want to move in? And there’s a friar involved?
OK. I’m confused.
I am not understanding either.

If the attacks only happen every 6 - 8 months, why would you live with her? It seems like you are talking that she would need you, maybe, twice a year?

Why is it a problem for you to drive up to help her?

This probably sounds flip, but give this a thought.

Buy her a medical alert button. You know, the ones that are advertised on TV. When she wakes up from the panic attack, have her push the button. Or if she can push it before she passes out, even better.

Then you will be there, fast as you can.

No moral problem of living together, and you can help when she needs it.
 
If her attacks are relatively rare, she is in therapy and on medication, and she is capable of living alone then you have no reason to move in with her before marriage.
 
My point was the the frequency of the attacks is rare, they could happen anytime, but it only happens when she’s under a lot of pressure and stress. Its not like its a debilitating thing. She is currently living with her parents, but they don’t really help her in the preventative measures when an attack is coming, she can feel it coming which is why she starts preventative measures to try to stop it. I personally would like to be there for her in the event of such. I think the thing to take from this is that I care very deeply for this girl and would like to be there for her when she’s not feeling well, or she’s starting to have a panic attack.

I know many have asked “umm…just marry her?” But we can’t do that, her dad isn’t going to sign off on that quite yet and if I don’t have that blessing then I’m not asking her to marry me. I am a strictly conservative southern man and I’m not marrying someone’s daughter till he’s ready to hand her over to me. Call me old fashion but thats how I am lol.

As for the Friar part…I was in discernment to be a Priest and a Franciscan Friar for a couple of years. I was in the OFM for a year in discernment and I learned a lot from my time in that discernment, but it wasn’t what God was calling me to. That’s where the Friar comes in, because even though I’m not a Friar any more, I still hold true to the Franciscan Spirituality and I still follow St. Francis and what he has shown me in how to live my life. My intense loneliness was a problem in my discernment and in that loneliness I learned to lean on Christ. Every state of life is going to find loneliness, even marriages! Yet in those moments we should turn our eyes to the Lord, for then you realize your not truly alone.

I hope that clarified things. I’m very much aware of what the church teaches in the matter, yet my heart does pull me towards her and desire to be there for her in such situations. Maybe is would be better to move closer, I mean a 40 min drive is a lot of gas and I don’t make very much money lol. At the same time, I am seeking political office to serve my God, my church and my country in defense of the kingdom of heaven, to be a right and moral statesman. Yet between district zones and other such legal political/electoral matters, such an idea is largely difficult to comprehend (the idea of moving in with one another), primarily due to the urgency of our nation to have upright statesmen who can lead with morality and where I live is where all my political connections are.

Again thank you for your postings, if there is any other questions just ask and I’ll try to further explain.
 
Just a general thought…

If her father isn’t too keen on the idea of you marrying her just yet…I highly doubt he will approve of you two moving in together before you are married.

I doubt even more if he would be okay with a man marrying his daughter who wants to shack up with her instead of marrying.

It’s noble and I understand that you really care about her…but it’s still not the right thing to do.

Move into together when you get married to her…end of story.
 
Learning to handle stress and pressure is the first step. Has she kept a diary of when she begins to feel panicky, what was causing it at the time, and what she did to alleviate the feeling? Things that are life-threatening, illegal, or immoral would certainly make me panic. If we learn what is worth getting nervous or angry about and what to let go, we could have more self-control. Is there something at home that is causing her distress? When something upsets her, she can count to 10, take deep breaths through the nose and out of the mouth, in fact doing this twice a day helps everyone, telling herself to calm down, calm down or chanting a favorite phrase until the anxiety goes away might help her. Drink a glass of water. Take time to relax with a cup of hot tea. My parents raised me that for every problem, there is a solution. You just have to find the right one. Praying for her, for her parents to be more supportive, and for you. God bless.
 
I know many have asked “umm…just marry her?” But we can’t do that, her dad isn’t going to sign off on that quite yet and if I don’t have that blessing then I’m not asking her to marry me. I am a strictly conservative southern man and I’m not marrying someone’s daughter till he’s ready to hand her over to me. Call me old fashion but thats how I am lol.
(Bolding mine)

This is not a catholic understanding of marriage, it’s more along the lines of one of those very conservative evangelical protestant understandings of marriage. Catholicism recognizes that the decision to marry must be made freely, with the mutual consent of both parties involved. Not their friends, parents, relatives, or anyone else. EasterJoy posted a document a few days ago from an Oregon diocese outlining marriage procedures and requirements. What struck me the most about the document was that it talked a lot about the right to marry, and how everyone has that right. It’s an institution between a man, woman, and god. Note, fathers aren’t included in that.

Yes, it is good to ask for support from both families. It is good to consider their concerns and possibly use them for self-improvement. But it isn’t good to postpone a marriage because a third party isn’t ready for you to do it.

There is a reason that many brides choose not to be “given away” at their weddings.
 
Just a general thought…

If her father isn’t too keen on the idea of you marrying her just yet…I highly doubt he will approve of you two moving in together before you are married.

I doubt even more if he would be okay with a man marrying his daughter who wants to shack up with her instead of marrying.

It’s noble and I understand that you really care about her…but it’s still not the right thing to do.

Move into together when you get married to her…end of story.
You would be surprised. Many parents, mine included, believe that marrying young is a bad choice and that if young couples want to be together they should move in together rather than marry, because an apartment is easier to leave than a marriage.

Ultimately though, if this is only happening once every 6-8 months, this sounds like he might be looking for a reason to move in with her.
 
If her father isn’t too keen on the idea of you marrying her just yet…I highly doubt he will approve of you two moving in together before you are married.

I doubt even more if he would be okay with a man marrying his daughter who wants to shack up with her instead of marrying.
That is what I was I was going to say. Moving in will be against the father’s wishes, and likely make him less apt to give his permission for marriage.

It’s one thing to want to be responsible. It’s another thing to attempt to be responsible in an irresponsible way.
 
If she is living with her parents what were you planning to do, move in with the whole family? If not, if you were planning to get a place with her, then you can simply marry her before you do so. As others have pointed out, providing you are both legal adults there is no barrier to marriage other than in your head. If you truly love this woman then you will do it right and not live with her before marriage. For the record, marriage doesn’t have to be a big to do. You can marry in the priests office with just two witnesses if expense is an issue.
 
For the record, marriage doesn’t have to be a big to do. You can marry in the priests office with just two witnesses if expense is an issue.
Marriage in the priest’s office seems irregular to me, and I am not sure how freely permission could be granted to do this. Marriage should be celebrated in a church, per canon law. That being said, yes, a wedding can be done on a budget, sometimes at a regularly scheduled liturgy or otherwise with minimal building-use fees.
 
Marriage in the priest’s office seems irregular to me, and I am not sure how freely permission could be granted to do this. Marriage should be celebrated in a church, per canon law. That being said, yes, a wedding can be done on a budget, sometimes at a regularly scheduled liturgy or otherwise with minimal building-use fees.
For convalidations and marriages of low income people marrying in the priests office or the daily mass chapel is very common in our neck of the woods.
 
I’ve read through many of your postings and many have said wait till marriage, or that she is unfit for marriage etc. This is something new to her, she was emotionally abused in her last relationship a couple of years ago, had a mental breakdown because of stress and now she’s still healing from that abuse.

I would like to clear a couple things up though. I do not view the Course of Action in question as a solution to the problem, nor do I see myself as a primary caregiver. I am not qualified, first off, and secondly, she doesn’t need a caregiver she is perfectly capable of taking care of herself and does so on a regular basis. She goes to a therapist for preventative measures not because it is a common occurrence. She is not debilitated, these attacks happen only when she’s really stressed out and it could be 6-8 months between incidents. Again, its only when she is really stressed out. What she needs is professional help, I would agree completely, yet at the same time it is important to understand that what she also needs is God. The emotional abuse has weakened her own feelings of self-worth. Now while this isn’t a bad thing per se, in this particular situation it is a negative way. I have seen this before, what she needs is to understand her faith and grow closer to God, to see her worth in the eyes of God and understand that he is Love that she is worthy of. This was how the particular case that I am referring too was helped through the situation. Luckily she has both professional help and I am currently seeking to find her a spiritual director as well.

These attacks have only started since 2010 after her mental breakdown and she sees two different therapists that she works with on a regular basis. She is not debilitated to the point of no return, her mental problem is created by an emotionally scarring boyfriend that abused her and took advantage of her. This is not my own analyzation but what her therapists see as well and they see a foreseeable future where she will no longer be on these medications and no longer in therapy because this is not a from birth thing, this is the cause of a very traumatic experience. Her “passing out” is actually a defense mechanism for her body to deal with high volumes of stress.

So what is my role? Its being a good Christian man and taking care of this women that I love. I don’t see her as a broken puzzle piece that needs to be fixed, as a man of faith, I understand that all of God’s creatures are perfect in their creation (barring sin from the equation but we all have free will). God loves this women for who she is, a Child of the Living God, yes she has what the world says is “imperfections” yet it is when you look past such things and look at the soul that see who the true person is. HF Francis embraced the Leper because he saw one thing, that leper was a child of God, not a despicable imperfect creature. The world says she’s broken, put her away, yet God says she is perfect, accept her and bring her closer into your arms.

Someone mentioned loneliness, but when your a Friar you turn your eyes to Christ and realize that he, our most Blessed Savior, was alone, abandoned and forsaken by his Father and us when he was crucified. He feels our pain and we are not alone, nor can a true Franciscan, or Child of God, ever say they are alone because the prayers of the Saints are with them and Christ is beside them.

I do thank everyone for their posts and if many of you wish to continue to post, then please go ahead. I think the best advice given is to talk to my Priest. He is currently out of town though lol and I needed some different ideas on the situation, so I thank all of you Brothers and Sisters in Christ for your responses and aid. 😃
I really think the simplest answer is for you to relocate to where she is, or vice versa, but live in separate houses. That way, if she has one of these rare panic attacks, you can get to her easily - on a small amount of gas money, or no money at all if your houses are within walking distance of each other - but still remain faithful to the Church’s teaching on cohabitation.

I haven’t thoroughly read the all of subsequent posts, so forgive me if I’m repeating something someone already said or am missing something crucial in your posts that explains why this suggestion is not possible.
 
A panic attack could easily happen when you’re at work or when she’s out and about, so it makes much more sense to 1) move closer and 2) get her one of those medical alert button thingies that was mentioned upthread.

I agree with what was said upthread about marriage. If your girlfriend is a competent adult capable of entering into a valid Catholic marriage, she does not need her father’s permission to do anything. His blessing is no doubt welcome, but you don’t really need it. Your girlfriend is not a piece of property being conveyed from her father to you–she will freely choose to marry you (or not) and you will freely choose to marry her (or not).
 
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