When is Our Lord present in the Eucharist?

[Christ_Conquers]

Is Our Lord present in the Holy Eucharist if you can’t tell weather a little particle is bread (just the appearance) or not?

Do you have to know that the particle is bread, or could the presence be there if it looks like it might be (the appearance) bread?

Thanks!

 

[paperwight66]

Is Our Lord present in the Holy Eucharist if you can’t tell weather a little particle is bread (just the appearance) or not?

Do you have to know that the particle is bread, or could the presence be there if it looks like it might be (the appearance) bread?

Thanks!

Could you put your question into different words, do you think? I’d like to answer, but I don’t quite understand what you are asking.

 

[vjnycguy]

Is Our Lord present in the Holy Eucharist if you can’t tell weather a little particle is bread (just the appearance) or not?

Do you have to know that the particle is bread, or could the presence be there if it looks like it might be (the appearance) bread?

Thanks!

Jesus is present in the Eucharist no matter how small the size.

 

[paperwight66]

Jesus is present in the Eucharist no matter how small the size.

Except when the particle is so smalll that it no longer resembles bread.

 

[Shivvy]

After the words of consecration, Our Lord is really, truly and substantially present in the Host. IT IS NO LONGER BREAD. Every particle of the Host is Christ, and that is why so much care must be taken when receiving Holy Communion. The host looks like bread, tastes likes bread, but it is no longer bread; it is the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Christ.

 

[tskrobacz]

Transubstantiation is the only thing ever happening, everywhere, all the time. All of creation is always and forever being transformed into the Body of Christ. Our Lord is present everywhere, all the time…it is in him whom we live and move and have our being.

 

[tee_eff_em]

The Eucharistic presence of Christ begins at the moment of the consecration and endures as long as the Eucharistic species subsist. Christ is present whole and entire in each of the species and whole and entire in each of their parts, in such a way that the breaking of the bread does not divide Christ.

 

[Christ_Conquers]

Sorry, I should have worded that differently. I know that Our Lord is present as long as the appearances/accidents remain bread, and as long as the Host or part of the Host is visible.

But what if you see a tiny particle (or something that looks like it might be) but you can’t tell whether it really is a particle or not?

What if you can’t tell if the accidents are bread/wine or not?

I guess what i’m asking is: if you can’t tell if the appearances are bread/wine is the presence there?

I think my title was misleading, sorry about that. I do believe that the substance of the Eucharist is truly Our Lord but still has the accidents/appearances of bread or wine.

Thanks!

 

[Christ_Conquers]

sorry i think i might not have worded what i said at the top right correctly.

 

[snarflemike]

You’ll never get a good answer to this. It’s like asking how much grace do you need to be saved. Some things are not quantifiable. There are times when there is no doubt that Jesus is present in the Eucharist. Then there are those borderline cases where nobody can be sure.

As in so many things, I just trust in God to work out the details.

 

[Christ_Conquers]

ok yeah, i see what you mean.

 

[Nita]

You’ll never get a good answer to this. It’s like asking how much grace do you need to be saved. Some things are not quantifiable. There are times when there is no doubt that Jesus is present in the Eucharist. Then there are those borderline cases where nobody can be sure.

As in so many things, I just trust in God to work out the details.

It seems to me tho that as long as it appears there’s even a possibility it could be a crumb from a consecrated host, it’s best to treat it as tho it is the Eucharist.

I take care of the altar linens at our Church, and very often there are little crumbs, or other itty-bitty pieces of something on it. Unless I’m positive it’s not a minute piece from a consecrated host, I always treat it as tho it were - and dispose of it properly.

 

[JonNC]

It seems to me tho that as long as it appears there’s even a possibility it could be a crumb from a consecrated host, it’s best to treat it as tho it is the Eucharist.

I take care of the altar linens at our Church, and very often there are little crumbs, or other itty-bitty pieces of something on it. Unless I’m positive it’s not a minute piece from a consecrated host, I always treat it as tho it were - and dispose of it properly.

Nita,
Out of curiousity, How do Catholics dispose of it properly?

Jon

 

[Nita]

Nita,
Out of curiousity, How do Catholics dispose of it properly?

Jon

In every Church there is a special sink called a sacrarium; it drains directly into the ground (not into the sewer system). If I were to notice crumbs on the altar, I would put them into a cup of water to dissolve them and then pour the water down the sacrarium drain.

In washing altar cloths and other linens that come in contact with consecrated hosts or wine, the linens are first soaked in water and then the water is drained in the sacrarium. After that I take them home and wash them in my washing machine.

I believe it is also allowed to do the soaking at home, but the water is to be poured directly into the ground in an area that is not normally walked on (eg. close to the foundation).

The purpose of soaking the linens is to dissolve the species - thus the Eucharistic presence ceases. Even tho Our Lord is no longer present after the species are dissolved, that water is still treated with great respect and disposed of in a special way.

I should add that any consecrated hosts or wine that need to be disposed of for some reason must always first be dissolved in water. Consecrated wine is never to be poured directly into the sacrarium. It must first be mixed with a sufficient amount of water so that it no longer is considered as manifesting the accidents of wine.

 

[JonNC]

In every Church there is a special sink called a sacrarium; it drains directly into the ground (not into the sewer system). If I were to notice crumbs on the altar, I would put them into a cup of water to dissolve them and then pour the water down the sacrarium drain.

In washing altar cloths and other linens that come in contact with consecrated hosts or wine, the linens are first soaked in water and then the water is drained in the sacrarium. After that I take them home and wash them in my washing machine.

I believe it is also allowed to do the soaking at home, but the water is to be poured directly into the ground in an area that is not normally walked on (eg. close to the foundation).

The purpose of soaking the linens is to dissolve the species - thus the Eucharistic presence ceases. Even tho Our Lord is no longer present after the species are dissolved, that water is still treated with great respect and disposed of in a special way.

I should add that any consecrated hosts or wine that need to be disposed of for some reason must always first be dissolved in water. Consecrated wine is never to be poured directly into the sacrarium. It must first be mixed with a sufficient amount of water so that it no longer is considered as manifesting the accidents of wine.

Thanks, Nita. I take it a sacrarium is essentially the same as a piscina, which some Lutherans churches have usually in the sacristy.

Jon

 

[CatholcCrusader]

Is Our Lord present in the Holy Eucharist if you can’t tell weather a little particle is bread (just the appearance) or not?

Do you have to know that the particle is bread, or could the presence be there if it looks like it might be (the appearance) bread?

Thanks!

When the priest says “Take this, all of you, and eat of it: for this is my Body which will be given up for you”, at that moment the bread is no longer bread, it only apprears to be bread.

 

[TimothyH]

When the priest says “Take this, all of you, and eat of it: for this is my Body which will be given up for you”, at that moment the bread is no longer bread, it only apprears to be bread.

Does the Roman Church that teach that transubstantiation happens at the words of institution?

The reason why I ask is because some of the Eastern Catholic Churches believe that transubstantiation happens at the epiclisis, at the calling down of the Holy Spirit at “Let your spirit come upon these gifts” or whatever similar words are used. For me, the epiclisis is a very powerful moment, when the Holy Spirit is present in the Church in a unique way. The Holy Spirit is present in the Church, at the altar, to make Christ present in the same way it was present when Mary was overshadowed and Christ was made present inside of her. That’s why I love it when a Church rings the bells at the epiclisis. It is a very powerful moment for me.

I’m not trying to challenge, but am asking in all sincerity.

Does the Church actually know or teach us when the change occurs? Epiclesis? Words of institution? Do we know?

 

[Nita]

Thanks, Nita. I take it a sacrarium is essentially the same as a piscina, which some Lutherans churches have usually in the sacristy.

Jon

Hi Jon, I’d never heard of a piscina before so had to google it.
If wikipedia can be trusted on this, then there is a difference. Sacrariums have a drain pipe that goes directly into the ground. (According to wikipedia, scararium refers to the drain pipe - and by extension includes the sink bowl/basin also.)

If I understand correctly, with a piscina there is only a bowl/basin; there is no drain pipe connected to it. Is that correct?

Nita

 

[Nita]

Does the Roman Church that teach that transubstantiation happens at the words of institution?

The reason why I ask is because some of the Eastern Catholic Churches believe that transubstantiation happens at the epiclisis, at the calling down of the Holy Spirit at “Let your spirit come upon these gifts” or whatever similar words are used. For me, the epiclisis is a very powerful moment, when the Holy Spirit is present in the Church in a unique way. The Holy Spirit is present in the Church, at the altar, to make Christ present in the same way it was present when Mary was overshadowed and Christ was made present inside of her. That’s why I love it when a Church rings the bells at the epiclisis. It is a very powerful moment for me.

I’m not trying to challenge, but am asking in all sincerity.

Does the Church actually know or teach us when the change occurs? Epiclesis? Words of institution? Do we know?

I have always been taught that transubstantiation takes place when the priest says “This is My Body…” and “This is My Blood…”.
For example, if Mass got interrupted after the epiclesis but before those words were spoken over the bread and wine, then transubstantiation would not have occurred.
This seems logical to me since the institution narratives in the Bible do not contain the epiclesis prayer, but they do contain the words “This is My Body… My blood”.

I checked the Catechism of the Catholic Church, but it’s vague as to exactly when transubstantiation occurs. (#1353). What it does is to list the epiclesis in a separate paragraph from the institution narrative.

It’s bedtime here in the midwest. Perhaps someone else can find an official record that states it more clearly. If not, I’ll do some digging tomorrow.

You mentioned bells. Something I really liked took place at a Church in downtown St. Paul, MN. They rang the bells in the church’s bell tower at the words of consecration.

 

[TimothyH]

I have always been taught that transubstantiation takes place when the priest says “This is My Body…” and “This is My Blood…”.
For example, if Mass got interrupted after the epiclesis but before those words were spoken over the bread and wine, then transubstantiation would not have occurred.
This seems logical to me since the institution narratives in the Bible do not contain the epiclesis prayer, but they do contain the words “This is My Body… My blood”.

I checked the Catechism of the Catholic Church, but it’s vague as to exactly when transubstantiation occurs. (#1353). What it does is to list the epiclesis in a separate paragraph from the institution narrative.

It’s bedtime here in the midwest. Perhaps someone else can find an official record that states it more clearly. If not, I’ll do some digging tomorrow.

You mentioned bells. Something I really liked took place at a Church in downtown St. Paul, MN. They rang the bells in the church’s bell tower at the words of consecration.

I was going to check the catechism myself. Thanks for that!

And thanks for the post. Yours was a very interesting response.

-Tim-