When is sexual attraction "wrong"

[CopticChristian]

Well, I’m referring to sexual attraction. I don’t know why the term “sexual” would be the first word in it if it was not an intrinsic component of it, unless it is being used in the sense of “an attraction towards a member of the opposite sex.” So is it sexual in the sense of the physiological or biological or sexual in the sense of it concerns differences of sex/gender?

I’ve always split attraction to the opposite sex into 2 categories- physical attraction and non-physical. (I couldn’t think of a better term for the latter.) In the latter case, it’s attraction on the merits of the person- their personality, values, other traits. Maybe this is where I’m wrong…but I don’t know. It’s pretty confusing. On the one hand, my parents have always preached, “Don’t date someone because you think they’re pretty (Beauty isn’t only skin deep.” But I’ve also heard from a few people that sexual attraction is a vital component of a relationship, as it provides incentive to reproduce (within marriage, of course). Of course, my parents also think their spouse is attractive.

I know what you’re saying, but for me, framing her as someone’s daughter or sister is a strong disincentive for me to look at her in a lewd manner. I wasn’t saying she’s someone’s property, merely that she holds value to lots of other people besides me and I ought to be respectful and cognizant of that fact. And I most certainly wasn’t saying that I only respect them on that level, either.

You never answered my question…

**Rk,

I have some questions for you.

Have you read the Catechism cover to cover?

Are you aware of Lust being one of the 7 deadly sins? **

 

[Kamaduck]

Well, I’m referring to sexual attraction. I don’t know why the term “sexual” would be the first word in it if it was not an intrinsic component of it, unless it is being used in the sense of “an attraction towards a member of the opposite sex.” So is it sexual in the sense of the physiological or biological or sexual in the sense of it concerns differences of sex/gender?

The former. But since it’s never the only consideration, I don’t see how it’s an admission that you would have sex with them. Even if you were married to them, it still wouldn’t be the only consideration on a given day.

I’ve always split attraction to the opposite sex into 2 categories- physical attraction and non-physical. (I couldn’t think of a better term for the latter.) In the latter case, it’s attraction on the merits of the person- their personality, values, other traits. Maybe this is where I’m wrong…but I don’t know. It’s pretty confusing. On the one hand, my parents have always preached, “Don’t date someone because you think they’re pretty (Beauty isn’t only skin deep.” But I’ve also heard from a few people that sexual attraction is a vital component of a relationship, as it provides incentive to reproduce (within marriage, of course). Of course, my parents also think their spouse is attractive.

I don’t know from personal experience, but I’ve always heard that both kinds of attraction are needed for a healthy marriage (or should be present at the start, anyway).

I know what you’re saying, but for me, framing her as someone’s daughter or sister is a strong disincentive for me to look at her in a lewd manner. I wasn’t saying she’s someone’s property, merely that she holds value to lots of other people besides me and I ought to be respectful and cognizant of that fact. And I most certainly wasn’t saying that I only respect them on that level, either.

If it works, more power to you. Just be a little careful with your words, I guess.

 

[Kamaduck]

You never answered my question…

Coptic, how is the fact that lust is one of the seven deadly sins relevant to this discussion?

Obviously RK is aware that it is sinful; he’s unclear on what actions are lust and which aren’t. I think a lot of people are in the same boat.

 

[Edward_H]

It’s wrong when it’s not ordered to the greatest good of the other, the spouse.

 

[Kamaduck]

It’s wrong when it’s not ordered to the greatest good of the other, the spouse.

So all sexual attraction is “wrong” outside of marraige? Doesn’t sound right to me.

 

[Edward_H]

So all sexual attraction is “wrong” outside of marraige?**** Doesn’t sound right to me.

All sexual desire, EVEN IN MARRIAGE, if it doesn’t have as its objective the glory of God and the true good of your spouse is a sin.

A passing thought is not a sin…a sexual thought, desire, fantasy that is nursed in memory or in the imagination is a sin.

 

[Kamaduck]

All sexual desire, even in marriage, if it doesn’t have as its objective the glory of God and the true good of your spouse is a sin.

A passing thought is not a sin…a thought that is nursed in memory or in the imagination is a sin.

We must be defining attraction differently. Attraction is not something that can be controlled; it cannot be a sin. Unless I’m missing something here?

 

[Edward_H]

We must be defining attraction differently. Attraction is not something that can be controlled; it cannot be a sin. Unless I’m missing something here?

Sure it can be controlled and stoked. Sexual behavior is enormously susceptible to reinforcment. That’s why sexual fantasies are so dangerous. That’s why porn and masturbation are so influential and addicting.

Men can deliberately arouse themselves quite easily. Clearly under volitional control.

 

[Kamaduck]

Sure it can be controlled and stoked. Sexual behavior is enormously susceptible to reinforcment. That’s why sexual fantasies are so dangerous. That’s why porn and masturbation are so influential and addicting.

Men can deliberately arouse themselves quite easily. Clearly under volitional control.

Look- if we’re not allowed to experience attraction until marriage (which is not necessarily the same as desire), how is anyone supposed to get married in the first place?

I’m just really confused by this. Obviously we’re going to be attracted to people; we’re sexual beings. And I know that part’s right because my priest just gave a homily on it yesterday.

 

[thewanderer]

Look- if we’re not allowed to experience attraction until marriage (which is not necessarily the same as desire), how is anyone supposed to get married in the first place?

I’m just really confused by this. Obviously we’re going to be attracted to people; we’re sexual beings. And I know that part’s right because my priest just gave a homily on it yesterday.

Thats not what he is saying. It sounds like you two are concerned about different things. Of course you can experience sexual attraction before marriage without sinning. His point was that not all sexual attraction is innocent or out of a persons control. Yours was that some is.

 

[Edward_H]

Look- if we’re not allowed to experience attraction until marriage (which is not necessarily the same as desire), how is anyone supposed to get married in the first place?

I’m just really confused by this. Obviously we’re going to be attracted to people; we’re sexual beings. And I know that part’s right because my priest just gave a homily on it yesterday.

Now you’re subtracting a word…sexual. Sexual attraction is a more narrow drive oriented word.

We are attracted to virtuous people…beauty attacks our attention. That’s different from the more volatile sexual attraction.

 

[Edward_H]

There’s a talk that’s not often given in parishes which should be given to all Catholics…all couples.

It’s called “marital chastity”…and the basic idea is that even in marriage our desires need to be totally other oriented…not mutually gratifying…but totally other oriented.

It’s this total self donation that creates matrimonial fireworks in the bedroom…total gift of self for the other without any expectation of reciprocity. Total focus on making the other sense that she is loved as no other woman on the face of the earth.

This is a higher order - a supernatural order - to sexuality. Manypeople have a rather low shooting idea of intimacy in marriage…as if the marriage license gives them license to pursue their own desires in a legitimate way. No!

Marital intimacy is much much grander and greater than that.

 

[CopticChristian]

Coptic, how is the fact that lust is one of the seven deadly sins relevant to this discussion?

Obviously RK is aware that it is sinful; he’s unclear on what actions are lust and which aren’t. I think a lot of people are in the same boat.

We shall not know until the OP answers the question, shall we…as the OP stated…

My question is simple- isn’t being sexually attracted to someone basically a nice way of saying you **lust **for them?

 

[Edward_H]

I was helped some years ago with the question: do I nurse impure thoughts…do I dwell on them?

Only the individual person can, in the presence of God - in prayer - answer that question.

It’s also helpful to realize there often appears a big gray area for us to “wallow in”…but when we exercise some sincerity…it’s not that big a gray area. We are either sanctifying our thoughts or time…or we are not.

 

[Rau]

There’s a talk that’s not often given in parishes which should be given to all Catholics…all…

Marital intimacy is much much grander and greater than that.

Be that as it may, the question was about the sinfulness or otherwise of sexual attraction, which term I think includes an automatic sexual response such as erection of the male in a relevant situation such as holding hands, a kiss etc. Attraction itself is not about dwelling on the sexual possibilities, prolonging lewd thoughts, etc.

Sexual attraction is normal and natural and I dare say something almost all people experience.

 

[Edward_H]

Be that as it may, the question was about the sinfulness or otherwise of sexual attraction, which term I think includes an automatic sexual response such as erection of the male in a relevant situation such as holding hands, a kiss etc. Attraction itself is not about dwelling on the sexual possibilities, prolonging lewd thoughts, etc.

Sexual attraction is normal and natural and I dare say something almost all people experience.

With practice and prayer, it’s surprising how little “automatic” it becomes in adults.

As one finds ones eyes wondering…it only takes a nano second to bring God into your presence…and offer the averted glance to “all expectant women”…for all mothers…for all struggling men with sexual addictions…and away the “attraction” goes…and one will have sanctified that moment…that choice.

 

[Baelor]

With practice and prayer, it’s surprising how little “automatic” it becomes in adults.

Unless it is purely voluntary, the question remains.

As one finds ones eyes wondering…

Then sexual attraction is already present.

 

[Edward_H]

Unless it is purely voluntary, the question remains.

Then sexual attraction is already present.

No more so than a bright and shiny object.

And as I said with practice one can sort of have an early awareness of something coming into a view…and voluntarily avert the glance.

Sincerity with oneself, prayer, practice, and often humor with God. The happy struggle.

 

[Baelor]

No more so than a bright and shiny object.

And as I said with practice one can sort of have an early awareness of something coming into a view…and voluntarily avert the glance.

The sexual attraction is still already there if you know that you may be falling into a near occasion of sin by maintain your gaze.

Imagine that sexual attraction did not exist at all – would there be any need to look away? Not at all, which is my point exactly.

Sexual attraction is not sinful. Not averting one’s gaze is not even necessarily sinful.

Sincerity with oneself, prayer, practice, and often humor with God. The happy struggle.

 

[Edward_H]

The sexual attraction is still already there if you know that you may be falling into a near occasion of sin by maintain your gaze.

Imagine that sexual attraction did not exist at all – would there be any need to look away? Not at all, which is my point exactly.

Sexual attraction is not sinful. Not averting one’s gaze is not even necessarily sinful.

Sincerity with oneself, prayer, practice, and often humor with God. The happy struggle.

Obviously…given the number of threads, posts, addicted people…sexual attraction is more complicated than you imply…left alone to grow…it will…with nursing it will seep in fast to someone’s behavior patterns.

You’re not doing anyone any good to draw an overly fine semantic or academic distinction to make a little point that no one has any problem with.

Sexual attraction if left unchecked from the get go can lead to enormous problems and potential lost souls.

It’s no consolation to point to a dictionary.