When is the death penalty justified?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Tellme_my_rites
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Charlie_Zeaiter said:
Hey, vern humphrey; We meet again…

I’m not suprised that a pro-gunner like yourself would be supportive of a death penalty. I mean, if you support the killing of a person prior to a trial, then why should the legal system be a hindrence to killing them after a trial?

I guess there is no point in having a death penalty debate with a pro-gunner. But I can’t resist; I like your posts. (I just hope you don’t have any scriptural verses where Jesus supports death penalties.)
Click to expand...
Ah, another person who, unable to attack the poster’s arguments, chooses to attack the poster.😃
 
vern_humphrey said:
Then it shouldn’t take you long to tell them all you know about it.
Click to expand...
If they actually don’t know, then I just might. I strongly suspect they already know, though.

And in case you don’t know:

Fast trials - if people are taken to trial within the first few hours of being caught for the crime, they’ll put together the cause and effect. “Do this, then bad thing happens. Conclusion: Don’t do this.” - rather than six years later, when all they get is, “Randomly, bad thing happens. Conclusion: Cops picking on me.”

Consistent sentencing. “If I cry in court, I’ll get a shorter sentence.” Huh-uh. Cry all you want; you’re still getting 25 to life.

Appropriate sentencing. Don’t stick jaywalkers in jail. Do stick rapists in jail, and do leave them there for a really long time.

Mean what you say. “Life” means they come out in a pine box, or not at all. Six months is actually six months - not four and a half. And if you don’t pay that fine by this date, you will be in jail every weekend for the next six months - no time off for your birthday, or Christmas.
 
jmcrae said:
If they actually don’t know, then I just might. I strongly suspect they already know, though.
Click to expand...
Ataboy! You tell 'em.

And don’t let them get away with claiming their years and years of hands-on experience trumps your imagination.😛
jmcrae said:
And in case you don’t know:
Click to expand...
My, aren’t we getting prissy!
jmcrae said:
Fast trials - if people are taken to trial within the first few hours of being caught for the crime, they’ll put together the cause and effect. “Do this, then bad thing happens. Conclusion: Don’t do this.” - rather than six years later, when all they get is, “Randomly, bad thing happens. Conclusion: Cops picking on me.”
Click to expand...
Got any cites for this – or is it just your imagination again?
jmcrae said:
Consistent sentencing. “If I cry in court, I’ll get a shorter sentence.” Huh-uh. Cry all you want; you’re still getting 25 to life.
Click to expand...
Funny how almost all the judges disagree with you.
jmcrae said:
Appropriate sentencing. Don’t stick jaywalkers in jail. Do stick rapists in jail, and do leave them there for a really long time.
Click to expand...
Ah – and which jail is it that’s full of jaywalkers?
jmcrae said:
Mean what you say. “Life” means they come out in a pine box, or not at all. Six months is actually six months - not four and a half. And if you don’t pay that fine by this date, you will be in jail every weekend for the next six months - no time off for your birthday, or Christmas.
Click to expand...
Aha – and if you kill a Corrections Officer, or have one of your homies kill the judge, or a juror you’ll get another life sentence on top of the six you already have.
 
LJ–The case I speak of is the Amish girls who were killed at school whose parents instantly forgave the killer. This made national news…
 
LJN21 said:
We are all called to forgive. Personally I have been appalled at the lack of forgiveness any many cases of death row inmates who pay their final dept. They possibly more than anyone else need our prayers. However the only person that can forgive the injustice due to murder is the one no longer living.

However the only person that can forgive the injustice due to murder is the one no longer living.

Forgiveness, Justice and mercy all have to be in balance or you don’t truly have any of them. God is love. God is mercy. God is justice. All three to perfection. He have civil governments the authority to protect there people. He gave priest the authority to forgive sins.
Click to expand...
It could be that God gave us these laws as a form of love…a form of discipline? But, the thing I wrestle with, and probably always will wrestle with is if God commands us not to kill…how could He then turn around and allow it under civil laws?

Adultery in the Bible was punishable by death in the OT…yet, Jesus taught to forgive. It just would seem a natural spiritual thought…the next step…to think that Jesus would not be in favor of killing people because they killed others. I think we are mixing civility and religion though…

And I don’t see any end in sight for this conversation…🤷 😃
 
LJN21 said:
I remember that.

The guy that shot them committed Suicide?
Click to expand...
that is what I cannot recall…ugh, my memory is fading…:crying: I will have to google it…but I do remember the remarkable mercy (instantly) that the families felt …let me google this and come back…see if I can find anything.
 
vern_humphrey said:
Ataboy! You tell 'em.
Click to expand...
“Girl.” But, whatever. 😛
Aha – and if you kill a Corrections Officer, or have one of your homies kill the judge, or a juror you’ll get another life sentence on top of the six you already have.
Click to expand...
Or, just let you in there with your gun, to pick out all which ones need the death penalty. (Oh, the heck with it. Why not just kill them all, and then let God sort them out? 🤷 )
 
*Naomi Rose Ebersole, seven; Marian Fisher, 13; the Miller sisters, Lena, seven, and Mary Liz, eight; and Anna Mae Stoltzfus, 12, died in the attack.

Roberts, a 32-year-old milk-tanker driver, killed himself at the end of the shooting spree.*

there’s the blurb about it…so, he did commit suicide. But, they showed remarkable mercy and forgiveness…anyways, that’s the story LJ
 
If the US brings back Osama to face trial should he get the Death Penalty Sharon?
 
childofmary1143 said:
If the US brings back Osama to face trial should he get the Death Penalty Sharon?
Click to expand...
Killing Osama will not bring back the thousands he killed…and it will make him a martyr…just from those reasons alone, no. And my moral feelings also say no…I say…put him in an American prison.🙂

That’s the thing with the DP–it doesn’t bring any satisfaction…or gratification for the grieving. It doesn’t bring justice…Justice isn’t killing someone because they killed. That, to me, is revenge. Call it civil…call it our rights in the court system…whatever. Flowery talk for taking something wrong, and twisting it to look right.

Planned Parenthood does that with abortion. Take murder and makes it look like something else.
 
My husband, who refuses to register on here…wants me to share with those in favor of the DP, that he is in favor of it in circumstances where the person is not able to be rehabilitated. He said that a person is given free will…which is a gift…if he takes that gift, steps on it, and hurts others using it…then, he should be put to death.

Not sure how we got together, :rolleyes: but there you go. I think that is so wrong. But…that’s his 2 cents on here.
 
Just remember today’s mass reading…we will all be judged the way we judge others…:hmmm:
 
whatevergirl said:
Killing Osama will not bring back the thousands he killed…and it will make him a martyr…just from those reasons alone, no. And my moral feelings also say no…I say…put him in an American prison.🙂

That’s the thing with the DP–it doesn’t bring any satisfaction…or gratification for the grieving. It doesn’t bring justice…Justice isn’t killing someone because they killed. That, to me, is revenge. Call it civil…call it our rights in the court system…whatever. Flowery talk for taking something wrong, and twisting it to look right.

Planned Parenthood does that with abortion. Take murder and makes it look like something else.
Click to expand...
I don’t know if you mean to compare with what Planned Parenthood does with people who support the DP but didn’t God himself tell the Israelites the circumstances in which they SHOULD use the death penalty? As for Jesus he said “I came not to abolish the law but to perfect it”. We could have a huge thread on what that means but to apply it to this issue I feel it means that the DP can be applied in SOME circumstances.
 
whatevergirl said:
It could be that God gave us these laws as a form of love…a form of discipline? But, the thing I wrestle with, and probably always will wrestle with is if God commands us not to kill…how could He then turn around and allow it under civil laws?
Click to expand...
Agian you can not equate all death with murder.
St. Augustine:
The same divine authority that forbids the killing of a human being establishes certain exceptions, as when God authorizes killing by a general law or when He gives an explicit commission to an individual for a limited time. The agent who executes the killing does not commit homicide; he is an instrument as is the sword with which he cuts. Therefore, it is in no way contrary to the commandment, ‘Thou shalt not kill’ to wage war at God’s bidding, or for the representatives of public authority to put criminals to death, according to the law, that is, the will of the most just reason.

(The City of God, Book 1, chapter 21)
Click to expand...
St. Thomas Aquinas:
It is written: “Wizards thou shalt not suffer to live” (Ex. 22:18); and: “In the morning I put to death all the wicked of the land” (Ps. 100:8). ….

Every part is directed to the whole, as imperfect to perfect, wherefore every part exists naturally for the sake of the whole. For this reason we see that if the health of the whole human body demands the excision of a member, because it became putrid or infectious to the other members, it would be both praiseworthy and healthful to have it cut away. Now every individual person is related to the entire society as a part to the whole. Therefore if a man be dangerous and infectious to the community, on account of some sin, it is praiseworthy and healthful that he be killed in order to safeguard the common good, since "a little leaven corrupteth the whole lump” (1 Cor. 5:6).

(Summa Theologiae, II, II, q. 64, art. 2).
The fact that the evil ones, as long as they live, can be corrected from their errors does not prohibit that they may be justly executed, for the danger which threatens from their way of life is greater and more certain than the good which may be expected from their improvement.

They also have at that critical point of death the opportunity to be converted to God through repentance. And if they are so obstinate that even at the point of death their heart does not draw back from malice, it is possible to make a quite probable judgment that they would never come away from evil.”

(Summa contra gentiles, Book III, chapter 146)
Click to expand...
whatevergirl said:
Adultery in the Bible was punishable by death in the OT…yet, Jesus taught to forgive. It just would seem a natural spiritual thought…the next step…to think that Jesus would not be in favor of killing people because they killed others. I think we are mixing civility and religion though…

And I don’t see any end in sight for this conversation…🤷 😃
Click to expand...
I’m guessing you are refering to where Jesus forgave the addultess. He told her to “Go and sin no more”. She repented of her sins and changed her ways.

"It would be better for him if a millstone were hung round his neck and he were cast into the sea, than that he should cause one of these little once in to sin. Luke 15:2

“Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. for assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.”-Matthew 5:17-19

“A certain man planted a vineyard, leased it to vinedressers, and went into a far country for a long time. Now at vintage-time he sent a servant to the vinedressers, that they might gave him some of the fruit of the vineyard. But the vinedressers beat him and sent him away empty-handed. Again he sent another servant; and they beat him also, treated him shamefully, and sent him away empty-handed. And again he sent a third; and they wounded him also and cast him out. then the owner of the vineyard said, ‘What shall I do? I will send my beloved son. Probably they will respect him when they see him.’ But when the vinedressers saw him, they reasoned among themselves, saying, ‘This is the heir. Come, let us kill him, that the inheritance may be ours.’ So they cast him out of the vineyard and killed him. Therefore what will the owner of the vineyard do to them? He will come and destroy those vinedressers and give the vineyard to others.” -Luke 20:9-16.

Cont…
 
“But bring here those enemies of mine, who did not want me to reign over them, and slay them before me.” -Luke19:27

“For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to evil…Do what is good, and you will have praise from the same. For he is God’s minister to you for good. But if you do evil, be afraid; for he does not bear the sword in vain; for he is God’s minister, an avenger to execute wrath on him who practices evil.” -Romans 13:3-4
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top