When is the death penalty justified?

[otjm]

Finally, the execution of those guilty of certain crimes is a requirement of justice and it is not “pro-life” to demand that justice be ignored.

Ender

I would agree with you up to a certain point. If one wants to speak about justice, there is more than one view as to what constitutes it.

Others feel that putting an individual in an 8 by 12 cell for the rest of their natural life is more justice than simply executing them. And interestingly, there appears to be evidence of this, at least in Oregon; we have had two individuals on death row cut short their appeals in order to be exectued (one was, and I think the other was also) because, as they both said, they could not deal with living the rest of their natural lives in an 8 by 12 cell. Some people feel that a shortend life is “justice”; but in both of these cases, the individuals openly said they could not live with that kind of justice.

I don’t question that many people see killing someone - depriving them of the rest of their life - is justice. But that is an opinion, and not necessarily suported by the facts of the alternative.

 

[melensdad]

The death penalty is justified and needed for those who kill Corrections Officers, police officers, judges, jurymen, prosecutors or their families.

IF it was carried out quickly and did not involve a dozen years of appeals, etc then I’d consider agreeing with you. But it is not a deterrent the way the law/executions are carried out now.

I really don’t see much need for a death penalty here in the US. I understand the emotion of your argument, but I can’t say that I am terribly swayed by it. There are folks who put themselves in harms way to keep society civil, however I don’t see that they should be a special class of citizen. We have enough special classes of citizens already and those special classes end up getting special treatment at the expense of majority. But all that is a LEGAL issue within the US, not a Church issue. In the eyes of the Church, I don’t see that there is any difference as the death penalty is the death penalty and there are viable alternatives here.

 

[vern_humphrey]

IF it was carried out quickly and did not involve a dozen years of appeals, etc then I’d consider agreeing with you. But it is not a deterrent the way the law/executions are carried out now.

Oh, I agree with you that the sentence once pronounced should be carried out quickly. No question about that.

But all the Corrections Officers I know say the death penalty is necessary to protect them.

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

Hi again,

I think we all agree with the Catholic Church when it allows the death penalty if there are no other ways to protect the community.

But early in the thread, it was mentioned that the prison system can not protect the community.

I then made the suggestion, that such people who do not feel comfortable with the prison system, and hence want the death penalty, are usually the same people who want guns in the community.

Not me - I’m in the UK anyway.​

As for guns: I think that people should be able defend themselves with weapons, of any kind, in cases of burglary or comparable trespasses; & that it is disgraceful, as happened not long ago, that a burglar was compensated for injuries received while committing his burglary If people insist on committing crimes, it should be entirely at their own risk; the state should not have to pick up the pieces after them (apart from arresting, trying, convicting, sentencing & punishing them); those who kill them in self-defence, should be rewarded. We have things exactly back to front just now.

guardian.co.uk/martin/article/0,977302,00.html

kirkbytimes.co.uk/news_items/2003_news/duncan_fergusan_burglar.html

news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/norfolk/3162633.stm

findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4158/is_20030729/ai_n12701365

I also made the snide remark, it is a “kill, or be killed” mentality. If you can’t kill them before the trial with your gun, then kill them after the trial with your death penalty. But that didn’t go down too well.

And now vern wants statistics to explain why the murder rate is so high in America. But I can’t help him there.

 

[Ender]

If one wants to speak about justice, there is more than one view as to what constitutes it.

Yes there is - but to even acknowledge that justice is a valid concern in determining whether to use the death penalty is to acknowledge that the catechism’s prohibition against it, based solely on protection, is inadequate.

Others feel that putting an individual in an 8 by 12 cell for the rest of their natural life is more justice than simply executing them.

A just sentence is not determined by what the individual receiving the punishment prefers any more than by what the aggrieved victim prefers to inflict. Besides, most criminals seem to prefer prison to execution which by your definition means that society receives “more” justice by executing them.

I don’t question that many people see killing someone - depriving them of the rest of their life - is justice. But that is an opinion, and not necessarily suported by the facts of the alternative.

I think there can be valid differences of opinion about what constitutes a just punishment for a particular individual but the concept of justice itself, with its requirement of a penalty proportional to the crime, is much less open to mere opinion. The Church has consistently taught that inflicting the death penalty was just - which means not simply that it was allowed but that it was the proper action.

Ender

 

[Al_Masetti]

The other day on the radio, someone said that the leading cause of death on death row in California was old age. Followed closely by boredom and suicide.

IF it was carried out quickly and did not involve a dozen years of appeals, etc then I’d consider agreeing with you. But it is not a deterrent the way the law/executions are carried out now.

I really don’t see much need for a death penalty here in the US. I understand the emotion of your argument, but I can’t say that I am terribly swayed by it. There are folks who put themselves in harms way to keep society civil, however I don’t see that they should be a special class of citizen. We have enough special classes of citizens already and those special classes end up getting special treatment at the expense of majority. But all that is a LEGAL issue within the US, not a Church issue. In the eyes of the Church, I don’t see that there is any difference as the death penalty is the death penalty and there are viable alternatives here.

 

[Charlie_Zeaiter]

… Of course it bugs me to no end when kids play with toys guns (which I don’t have a problem with) and point them at people…

Yes, I agree. (I was being sarcastic before. Maybe I should have used that rolling-eyes smiley.)

… Anwyay, thats one of those nice what ifs that just hasn’t ever happened…

Never say never; It’s a numbers game. A quick search on the internet led me to a Father who accidently shot his daughter…
sciencedaily.com/upi/index.php?feed=TopNews&article=UPI-1-20070531-13233700-bc-us-shot.xml