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BarbaraTherese
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Now we may what we may on a sort of sticks and stones basis and we are all guilty somewhere, I think, in that …one day we will know what we know …and that is certain! …nothing is surer than death:thumbsup: …
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drpmjhess
Guest
I’ve never seen it because I don’t have cable, but friends have told me that EWTN is basically a fascist right-wing Catholic network. Would they support Becky Fisher’s “Jesus Camp” and her desire to turn children into little Christian jihadis? (Assuming, of course, that EWTN and Prot Fundamentalists don’t mutually hate each other, which they might well.)
Petrus
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CathMass
Guest
Last Wednesday the priest said that we send ourselves to Hell by our no to God. He said God does not send us to Hell. However, that was all regarding Hell and everthing else was about other stuff.
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masondoggy
Guest
That’s really freaky…and sad. So did he actually successfully revive the patient?
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clandr56
Guest
We do not hear it anymore because many parishes are preaching catholic lite sermons. Its all about feeling good. Very little is said about dying to self, transformation through the interior life, need for regular confession. As one priest said, “With so many receiving Holy Communion you would swear catholics were immaculately conceived.”
In our parish the mantra is “stewardship.” I agree that we have to be good stewards of our time, talent and treasure. Yet in this particular situation reverence at mass has been abandoned and the parish attitude is “we have to engage the world.” By doing so the mass is to worldly. It doesn’t have that sense of the transcendent, the eternal the awesomeness of what we a participating in.
As catholics we are called to transform the world, not adapt religious indifferentism.
Hell is a reality.
In our parish the mantra is “stewardship.” I agree that we have to be good stewards of our time, talent and treasure. Yet in this particular situation reverence at mass has been abandoned and the parish attitude is “we have to engage the world.” By doing so the mass is to worldly. It doesn’t have that sense of the transcendent, the eternal the awesomeness of what we a participating in.
As catholics we are called to transform the world, not adapt religious indifferentism.
Hell is a reality.
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drpmjhess
Guest
At my parish we hear a lot about dying to self and transformation through the interior life, but fortunately none of this nonsense about “Catholics falling into hell like snowflakes.” Thank goodness that sick, medieval, masochistic piety (reflected in Mel Gibson’s “The Passion of the Christ”) has been replaced in many parishes with a focus on the Christian values of charity, forgiveness, and metanoia, or spiritual transformation.
Petrus
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Shoshana
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Code:
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RomanCrusader
Guest
Never really.
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St_Gabriel
Guest
I can’t remember when the last time I heard a homily about Hell. I have heard about the seriousness of sin but that’s about the closest. I think Hell needs to be spoken about from the pulpit at least once a year. Networks and merchandisers have been downplaying it for so long it which makes me very angry because I think a lot of people are being lied to, fooling themselves and are willingly being lead straight there.
I do remember one homily which said,
First the devil trys to convince you that there’s no Hell.
And then he trys to convince you that there’s no Heaven.
And lastly he trys to convince you that you got all the time in the world.
I do remember one homily which said,
First the devil trys to convince you that there’s no Hell.
And then he trys to convince you that there’s no Heaven.
And lastly he trys to convince you that you got all the time in the world.
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drpmjhess
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drpmjhess
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St Gabriel,
If hell is to be spoken about from the pulpit, there needs to be some content. Can you offer an account of hell based on evidence? Can you explain what hell is? What the temperature is? What kind of demons inhabit it? How many tines their pitchforks have? Where it is? (You talk about people being led “there” so it must be a place.) Can you explain what happens there, and how we know this? It might be more convincing to congregations if there were in fact some detail about hell, but I have yet to hear any. If we have not content to offer the faithful to scare the pants off them, then perhaps it is better to drop the subject.
Petrus
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St_Gabriel
Guest
Well there are passages in the bible that talk about the reality of Hell. Another poster has already mentioned them above. As well we have accounts from the children at Fatima and the writings of other saints such as St Teresa of Avila and more. A priest wouldn’t have to go into depth about torture or demons which we don’t know much about and such which could lead people into a state of despair. And he wouldn’t have to spend the entire time in one homily speaking about it. But they could at least mention the fact that there is a place which is called Hell. That should be enough.
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drpmjhess
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The fantasies of Fatima children are just that, and St. Teresa’s visions were coloured by her Renaissance world view. Such accounts hardly constitute worthwhile “evidence.”
I like better what you say about people falling into a state of spiritual despair. That makes far better psychological sense, and visions of hell spring from the psychological makeup of the describer.
Prayerfully yours,
Petrus
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St_Gabriel
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Well there must be some good info in the catechism that they could draw on as well. (I’ll have to check it.)
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drpmjhess
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Thanks, St. Gabriel. I tend to think of hell (theologically) as a state of total willed alienation from God and all that is good. I can certainly understand why people in more primitive times traced the infernal outlines according to their mythologies (red-suited, horned devils with pitchforks), but we need to re-mythologize or rethink hell in terms that speak to the contemporary conscience, without in any way downplaying the reality of total separation from God.
Petrus
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St_Gabriel
Guest
I agree with you. I am no theologian that’s for sure. To tell you the truth, the whole topic of Hell gives me the willies
and I don’t blame people for wanting to avoid speaking about it but sometimes I got to hear it.
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Genesis315
Guest
I tend to hear about it almost every Sunday. It’s not necessarily a fire and brimstone, but usually in terms of our hope in salvation from it if we do whatever the topic of the day’s Gospel is about (although, the last few Sundays there was some very stern warnings about confession).
Anyway, even if you don’t hear the priest give a sermon on it, you’ll hear Jesus preach on it times during the year. When the new lectionary was instituted with the liturgical reforms, a lot more readings on Hell were included (believe it or not, in the old lectionary there was only one–and it was during the Feast of St. Michael, which meant if you weren’t a daily Mass goer, you’d only hear it once every 7 years when the Feast fell on Sunday.)
Here’s a good article on this:
catholic.com/thisrock/2006/0605fea4.asp
Anyway, even if you don’t hear the priest give a sermon on it, you’ll hear Jesus preach on it times during the year. When the new lectionary was instituted with the liturgical reforms, a lot more readings on Hell were included (believe it or not, in the old lectionary there was only one–and it was during the Feast of St. Michael, which meant if you weren’t a daily Mass goer, you’d only hear it once every 7 years when the Feast fell on Sunday.)
Here’s a good article on this:
catholic.com/thisrock/2006/0605fea4.asp
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wcknight
Guest
The last time I heard a really emotional fire and brimstone sermon was when I was 6 or 7 years old. BUT if the number of folks being saved is really very very miniscule, relativee to the total number of deaths then our priests should be having a fire and brimstone sermon each and every week.
IF as in the “Most go to Hell” thread several saints mention that only 5 or 6 folks out of 33,000 end up in Heaven or Purgatory then every priest and minister should be shouting it out from the pulpits all the time.
Anyone who knows this and does not do his utmost to let folks know that they are on their way to damnation, is grossly shirking their responsibility.
IF you knew that in your parish, only 5 or 6 folks or LESS, maybe only 1 or 2 where saved what would you do. Would it not be a huge sham to continue having folks come to church every week when you knew the vast majority were damned ???
IF we are all required to do a whole lot more for salvation then we need to know about that. Either these saints are way off base or we are all being led down a primrose path to eternal damnation.
IF as in the “Most go to Hell” thread several saints mention that only 5 or 6 folks out of 33,000 end up in Heaven or Purgatory then every priest and minister should be shouting it out from the pulpits all the time.
Anyone who knows this and does not do his utmost to let folks know that they are on their way to damnation, is grossly shirking their responsibility.
IF you knew that in your parish, only 5 or 6 folks or LESS, maybe only 1 or 2 where saved what would you do. Would it not be a huge sham to continue having folks come to church every week when you knew the vast majority were damned ???
IF we are all required to do a whole lot more for salvation then we need to know about that. Either these saints are way off base or we are all being led down a primrose path to eternal damnation.
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drpmjhess
Guest
I thought this was a Roman Catholic forum. What’s all this stuff about “being saved”? That sounds like Prot fundamentalist language.
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wcknight
Guest
Salvation is a concept common to all Christians including Catholics…
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