When is working too much a sin?

[joshkt79]

Now, I understand someone working to pay the bills and doing what needs to be done, but I know this guy, married, with a few kids. He works in the oilfield. He will work 21 days in a row, come in for 2 and then right back out for another 21 days. Last year, he made over $200,000 but worked over 300 days out of the year.

He recently told me that his wife is upset that he’s always working, never home to help with the kids and missing everything, but he is telling her that he’s making money to better themselves. I asked why he “needed” to work so much. He begins to tell me that his mortgage is $2,800/month and that he just bought a $60,000 truck and a boa along with what they already have which is a couple of ATV’s, jet skis and a $50,000 SUV.

So, I guess my question is, "when is working too much considered “greed?”

 

[Xantippe]

Now, I understand someone working to pay the bills and doing what needs to be done, but I know this guy, married, with a few kids. He works in the oilfield. He will work 21 days in a row, come in for 2 and then right back out for another 21 days. Last year, he made over $200,000 but worked over 300 days out of the year.

He recently told me that his wife is upset that he’s always working, never home to help with the kids and missing everything, but he is telling her that he’s making money to better themselves. I asked why he “needed” to work so much. He begins to tell me that his mortgage is $2,800/month and that he just bought a $60,000 truck and a boa along with what they already have which is a couple of ATV’s, jet skis and a $50,000 SUV.

So, I guess my question is, "when is working too much considered “greed?”

I don’t know, but depending on the relationship, you might try something like, “If the only thing you are contributing to your family is money, what if your wife decides that it’s easier to just take the money and not have to bother with you?”

That’s kind of brutal, but in this case, I think the shoe fits. When they got married, the vows weren’t, “Do you, Sherie, take this paycheck to be your lawfully wedded husband?”

Heck, a lot of people would say he’s probably not even fulfilling his most basic marital duties by choosing this arrangement. I don’t know about his wife, but I certainly want my husband more than 2 days in 23. But, that’s kind of a personal thing to say.

 

[pianistclare]

If relationships are being neglected…then it’s too much.
Balance. Everything should be balanced.
No one NEEDS a boat, no one NEEDS most of the things we crave.
But children need a daddy, a wife needs her husband, and frankly, I don’t see how he gets along without her companionship.
Fast forward and he’ll be lamenting that she “took him to the cleaners” in a divorce.

 

[Antegin]

If your kids don’t know who you are when you walk in at 10PM, you’re working to much…

When you come home and you’re wife calls you stranger and your child calls you the man, you’re working too much…

On that rare occasion you go to Mass and the priest asks if you would like to start RICA classes, you’re working too much.

When God calls you and He gets the answering machine, you’re working too much…

 

[StGerardMajella]

ut I know this guy, married, with a few kids. He works in the oilfield. He will work 21 days in a row, come in for 2 and then right back out for another 21 days. Last year, he made over $200,000 but worked over 300 days out of the year.

…still leaves him with 60 days, or roughly 2 months a year at home.

I don’t think we should be judgmental here. Some jobs demand long hours. In oilfield work, some of this is highly cyclical, so he may be out of work for a year or more whenever gas prices drop. And, when there is an oil boom, he probably has to put in long hours. Goes with the territory.

Sometimes, the material items - boats, etc. - can be fun for the family as well. When he is home, he might have the ability to do some really fun and exciting activities with his family. Work hard, play hard.

Again, we shouldn’t be judgmental. It’s really hard to know the real story from being an outsider looking in.

To answer your question, there is a point where work can become too much. Balance is key to life happiness. By the same token, I commend hard workers that put in long hours. We have far too many people in this country that do the exact opposite. Better to be a hard worker than a slacker, which to me, is much more sinful. We were meant to work and work hard.

 

[Deus_tecum]

Now, I understand someone working to pay the bills and doing what needs to be done, but I know this guy, married, with a few kids. He works in the oilfield. He will work 21 days in a row, come in for 2 and then right back out for another 21 days. Last year, he made over $200,000 but worked over 300 days out of the year.

He recently told me that his wife is upset that he’s always working, never home to help with the kids and missing everything, but he is telling her that he’s making money to better themselves. I asked why he “needed” to work so much. He begins to tell me that his mortgage is $2,800/month and that he just bought a $60,000 truck and a boa along with what they already have which is a couple of ATV’s, jet skis and a $50,000 SUV.

So, I guess my question is, "when is working too much considered “greed?”

Any sort of addiction is a sin of selfishness, and workaholism is an addiction.

 

[Xantippe]

…still leaves him with 60 days, or roughly 2 months a year at home.

I don’t think we should be judgmental here. Some jobs demand long hours. In oilfield work, some of this is highly cyclical, so he may be out of work for a year or more whenever gas prices drop. And, when there is an oil boom, he probably has to put in long hours. Goes with the territory.

Sometimes, the material items - boats, etc. - can be fun for the family as well. When he is home, he might have the ability to do some really fun and exciting activities with his family. Work hard, play hard.

Again, we shouldn’t be judgmental. It’s really hard to know the real story from being an outsider looking in.

To answer your question, there is a point where work can become too much. Balance is key to life happiness. By the same token, I commend hard workers that put in long hours. We have far too many people in this country that do the exact opposite. Better to be a hard worker than a slacker, which to me, is much more sinful. We were meant to work and work hard.

Well, it wouldn’t be judgmental, were it not for the fact that his wife is starting to get ticked off (“He recently told me that his wife is upset that he’s always working, never home to help with the kids and missing everything, but he is telling her that he’s making money to better themselves…”). So it’s not just the OP being judgy–the friend’s wife doesn’t like the situation, either.

You’re right that the oil business is cyclical, but that means that those large consumer purchases (unless they are purchased in cash) will be a (pardon the expression) boat anchor around his neck when it all goes south. A lot of people got hurt during the 80s oil bust that thought that it was all going to last forever.

Apparently, back in the day, there was a bumper sticker that said, “PLEASE GOD, Just Give Me One More Oil Boom. I Promise Not to Blow It Next Time.” (Although, I’ve heard that bumper sticker with somewhat less CAF friendly language.) There were so many people that were left with less than nothing because they assumed that the good times would go on forever.

I would suggest starting to do Dave Ramsey’s Financial Peace University online with his wife while he’s away and doing the baby steps.

daveramsey.com/new/baby-steps/

The Total Money Makeover and The Legacy Journey might be good books for the OP’s friend.

Also, I did a little math, and I think it actually works out to 32 days a year at home.

365 divided by 23 is about 16 2-day work-home cycles, which means around 32 days at home a year, or less than 10% of his time at home and over 90% on the road.

 

[Xantippe]

To answer your question, there is a point where work can become too much. Balance is key to life happiness. By the same token, I commend hard workers that put in long hours. We have far too many people in this country that do the exact opposite. Better to be a hard worker than a slacker, which to me, is much more sinful. We were meant to work and work hard.

At some point, it looks like purposely avoiding your family.

 

[underacloud]

Lots of stuff - cars, boats, ATVs, jet skis - can never compensate for a parent’s loving presence in the home.

When is someone working too much? It’s hard to say. There are many factors. But the most important factor is - when your family thinks you work too much.

 

[phil_at_dayboro]

It seems he just might be a workaholic , I doubt that in itself would be a sin,
Many women might even think it’s a blessing,lol
I was a bit of a workaholic myself once, now my body won’t let me,
Perhaps he really enjoys the Crew he works with, and the tough working environment .
But if the money is wasted , then what’s the point,

 

[EasterJoy]

An excerpt from the Catholic Answers article, “The Sin of Sloth: What the Couch Potato and the Workaholic Have in Common”
catholic.com/magazine/articles/the-sin-of-sloth

It says in part: *Time is one of our most valued commodities, and we should spend it in a way that reflects our values and priorities. Getting the Lord’s Day right is the first and most important step, but we still have six other days to order correctly. Faith, family, work, and other pursuits are like ingredients that need to be added at the right time and in the right measure to make a tasty dish. If we don’t take the time to read and follow the recipe, the ingredients won’t come together in the way we’d like.

That’s why it’s so important for individuals, couples, families, and communities to take the time to identify their priorities and commitments and schedule their days and weeks accordingly. For those of us who tend to be lazy “under-achievers,” a schedule will keep us on task to make sure we meet our obligations. For those of us who tend toward workaholism and to be driven by the tyranny of the urgent, a schedule will make sure that we make time for prayer, reading to the kids, or other priorities that might get shoved aside if we’re not vigilant.*

Certainly, there are occupations where finding this balance can be very difficult. The one cited is one of them. It is possible, however, to wrong your family by spending too much time in one area that is a necessary good, but that ought to be given a lesser amount of time.

 

[PaulfromIowa]

 

[DoxieMama]

I would maybe remind him of the Bible verse regarding storing up for yourself treasures in Heaven, instead of on earth where moth and rust destroy. Sorry, I can’t remember the Bible book. Maybe this person is relying too much on toys instead of God to make himself happy, which unfortunately can be passed on to his kids.

 

[Xantippe]

http://www.wackybuttons.com/designcodes/110/1103231.jpg

Funny!

 

[Xantippe]

In our family, one of the grandpas (nearing 70 right now) probably has to be described as a workaholic.

As kids, it wasn’t that visible to the kids (because there was such an obvious financial need at the time), but now that grandpa is older and more financially settled and the grandkids are getting bigger and bigger, it has become painfully obvious that 1) grandpa only cares about his work (and a handful of personal interests connected to his work) and 2) grandpa isn’t that interested in the grandkids or cultivating personal relationships with them (although he is gratified to hear about their successes, particularly where it overlaps with his talents and interests).

I think sometimes people tell themselves “I’m doing this for my family,” when they’d do exactly the same stuff if they were single.

 

[Kelfa28]

I think it depends on the circumstances entirely and also what you are working to maintain.

I disagree that there is an actual number of hours or how long you are away from your family or Church that dictates whether you work too much.

I think it depends on what you are working to maintain and what you consider important in your life.

My husband only sees his daughters once a day every 3 days or so. When he switches over to nights…it will be for a few hours every few days.

He is in the Military and they have insane hours. It’s just the way it is. He goes to Church every other week and when he is on night shift…it’s whenever he can…which may not be every other week.

He is missing a lot but we are trying to keep a roof over our head, food on the table and keep up with the bills (which certainly doesn’t include a 60k truck payment…more like a 10k mini-van payment).

It’s hard but it needs to get done.

He doesn’t pick his hours…the military picks his hours for him.

If you are purposely working more and more hours to pay for a lifestyle and it’s costing you your family…that is working too much.

But who am I to say? From the outside…it looks like my husband is working way too many hours and some of our Church friends could be starting threads wondering the exact same thing.

 

[pianistclare]

In our family, one of the grandpas (nearing 70 right now) probably has to be described as a workaholic.

As kids, it wasn’t that visible to the kids (because there was such an obvious financial need at the time), but now that grandpa is older and more financially settled and the grandkids are getting bigger and bigger, it has become painfully obvious that 1) grandpa only cares about his work (and a handful of personal interests connected to his work) and 2) grandpa isn’t that interested in the grandkids or cultivating personal relationships with them (although he is gratified to hear about their successes, particularly where it overlaps with his talents and interests).

I think sometimes people tell themselves “I’m doing this for my family,” when they’d do exactly the same stuff if they were single.

Right. Because that’s what defines them. Which can happen to mothers too.
I guess when you family sits you down and says…“look. We miss you and we need you”, it’s time to take stock and see if something can adjusted. IS the family willing to live in a smaller house for the sake of family harmony? Can the kids get by without the latest iphone? Can the infrequent times at home be made more special?

 

[Xantippe]

Right. Because that’s what defines them. Which can happen to mothers too.
I guess when you family sits you down and says…“look. We miss you and we need you”, it’s time to take stock and see if something can adjusted. IS the family willing to live in a smaller house for the sake of family harmony? Can the kids get by without the latest iphone? Can the infrequent times at home be made more special?

One thing that comes up a lot with the high-earning-but-dad’s-gone-a-lot family is that it can be very, very expensive. It’s sort of the male equivalent of the discussions about how expensive it can be when mom works full time, but even more so.

I was listening to Dave Ramsey this last year and there was a case in point. He had a caller that was doing contract work in the Middle East for very long stretches at a time and making $150-$170kish and barely making it on that. However, he also had a wife and a large family back in the States (6-8 kids???), and it really sounded like there was a lot of compensating going on for the fact that dad was gone all the time–mom had the kids in a million activities and was probably hitting the drive thru a whole bunch, etc. That family (and this is somewhat different from the OP’s friend’s family) was in the position where the dad needed to make a lot of money overseas in order to pay for his family’s lifestyle that had ballooned due to the fact that dad was overseas. In order to bring him home back to the States (which was their long-term plan), they needed to trim their lifestyle down to the point that they could live on what he could make in the US.

So, a fancy lifestyle has a way of turning a high income into golden handcuffs.

 

[abstract123]

One of my uncle’s worked in the oilfield for about 22-23 years since he graduated high school. Didn’t save too much money at first, then he got married, had kids and decided to start saving and didn’t want to work in the oilfield forever and wanted to see his kids grow up. He continued to work and was always away. They didn’t live far from us growing up but I remember my aunt and cousins saying their dad was always at work. My dad told me that my uncle(his brother) was bringing home $150K and was saving about $40,000 of that per year.

My uncle always talked about stating his own lawn care business. He loved to cut grass. He had over half a million in the bank and his wife desperately wanted him home. He missed his son’s graduation. He kept saying “Just a few more hitches,I promise”. He wanted to buy a new truck.

On one hitch, he was on a rig platform when a pipe broke and came down, hitting him in the chest and killing him.

 

[joshkt79]

I was listening to Dave Ramsey this last year and there was a case in point. He had a caller that was doing contract work in the Middle East for very long stretches at a time and making $150-$170kish and barely making it on that.

Barely making it on $150,000??!?!?!?!?!

I’d feel like a millionaire on that salary.

In going back to my original post, I figured out that a $2,800/month mortgage for 30 years is a $500,000 home. No one that works in the oilfield should be living that type of lifestyle.

$2,800 is 67% of my monthly salary. I already don’t like paying a $700/month mortgage!