When Jesus died

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The trinity is hard for many to wrap their minds around. I had it explained like this to me:

Just as ice, water, and steam are all H2O in different forms, so are the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit (one God in different forms).

It is very simplistic, but for simple minds like mine, it helped.
 
tamarnp said:
The trinity is hard for many to wrap their minds around. I had it explained like this to me:

Just as ice, water, and steam are all H2O in different forms, so are the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit (one God in different forms).

It is very simplistic, but for simple minds like mine, it helped.
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Do you really think God would make worshiping him so difficult he would result to “brain teasers”?
 
tamarnp said:
The trinity is hard for many to wrap their minds around. I had it explained like this to me:

Just as ice, water, and steam are all H2O in different forms, so are the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit (one God in different forms).

It is very simplistic, but for simple minds like mine, it helped.
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**Thanks Tamarnp, I hope that the holy spirit would be the steam, I mean similar to steam. Then what will be the Father? Would it be the Ice? Son i.e. water could come out of the Ice.

Could you please explain it a bit more the way you understood Trinity from H2O? Also please explain if Ice, water and steam exist all together, as they say “Three in One”. We have some Ice. After melting it would become water, not before that.

Then if water is heated to high degree temperature it becomes steam.

The Ice and water and steam do not exist together at same time. They just keep changing shape (condition).

Do you mean to say that the Father and the son and the Holy ghost keep rotating their shape (condition)? I am curious.

If Trinity could be understood by the H2O then I would consider it a scientific miracle of the church.
**
 
Cara_Mia_Tu said:
Do you really think God would make worshiping him so difficult he would result to “brain teasers”?
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When Moses asked God to describe Himself, you know what the Author of the Universe said to the true Prophet? " I AM what I AM"!.

I guess you can say he left Moses with a brain teaser:p
 
planten said:
**Thanks Tamarnp, I hope that the holy spirit would be the steam, I mean similar to steam. Then what will be the Father? Would it be the Ice? Son i.e. water could come out of the Ice.

Could you please explain it a bit more the way you understood Trinity from H2O? Also please explain if Ice, water and steam exist all together, as they say “Three in One”. We have some Ice. After melting it would become water, not before that.

Then if water is heated to high degree temperature it becomes steam.

The Ice and water and steam do not exist together at same time. They just keep changing shape (condition).

Do you mean to say that the Father and the son and the Holy ghost keep rotating their shape (condition)? I am curious.

If Trinity could be understood by the H2O then I would consider it a scientific miracle of the church.
**
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Time is also in 3 forms. Past-Present-Future. So why cant God? Only because Muhammed who came 600 hundred years after Jesus (The Prince of Salom) tought false teachings to his soldiers, dosent mean they are true no matter how logical it might sound.
 
I am made up of my intellect, emotions, memory, body, soul, desires etc etc.
Take one away and in a sense it is no longer me, yet all of them are me.

In a maths test you might see my interlect, in a song my emotions, in reminiscing my memory, in a photograph my body, etc etc.

God is much more than we and because we are wholly contained within a bubble created by God we cannot see him clearly in his entirety.

So if we see him at all in our bubble, it follows that we can only see a part of him.

It is not really a hard concept.

The problem is when people try to think of God existing entirely within our bubble - that doesn’t make sense.
 
Muslim_Woman said:
In the name of Allah , Most Gracious, Most Merciful

Salaam/peace

God does not need prayer for Himself . God does not need anyone’s help to save Him from enemies. No one can do any harm to our Creator . God has full control over His creations.
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If the muslim believe that God has FULL CONTROL over His creation (which I agree) why the muslim need to condemn anybody ridiculing Muhammad and his version of God?
 
jastor said:
Did his followers believe he was the God they were praying too?
If he was God, wouldn’t he be praying to himself. Jesus and God are two different entities , how can a man be God? Man is imperfect, we use the toilet, eat, have bodily functions how is that perfect?
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When Jesus prayed, He prayed as a man. Jesus is true God and true man. More specifically, Jesus is the Son incarnate. Christians believe God is three Persons: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. When Jesus prayed as a man, He always prayed to the Father.

When Jesus died, His disciples abanonded Him. Out of all of them - which numbered in the thousands - only the apostle John and some women followed Him to the place where He died and believed He was God. Two of the women who knelt before Jesus as He hung on the cross were Mary, the Mother of Jesus, and Mary, the mother of the apostle John.
While Jesus was dead, His Apostles were in hiding. They were scaried out of their minds. They knew full well that if the Sadducces caught theym, they’d be stoned for committing idoltry. Any Jew who worshipped a man claiming to be God was stoned to death. So they hid. They had lost all hope in Jesus. They thought He was God and King (Messiah), but since He was crucified, their hopes were completely shattered. And becuase they had publicly worshipped Him, they were wanted for stoning. So, in a literal sense, they had lost everything: their respect, their homes, their families, their friends, their jobs, and their very lives. They had given it all up to follow Jesus, and it had all been for nothing.
Than when Jesus appeared to them, they got really scaried. They thought He was a ghost, who had come to reproach them for worshipping Him. But instead, much to their surprise, He showed them He was not a ghost but a resurrected man, and moreover, He was God and King. That’s when they were filled with a newfound courage and strength, and they believed He was who He had telling them He was ever since He had called them three years earlier: God and King.
 
Benjamin8o8 said:
Time is also in 3 forms. Past-Present-Future. So why cant God? Only because Muhammed who came 600 hundred years after Jesus (The Prince of Salom) tought false teachings to his soldiers, dosent mean they are true no matter how logical it might sound.
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**There can be many more examples of your Trinitarian God or Triune, as you call him. e.g.

God is like the egg. It has the white (albumen?), yoke and shell.
God may be like the Time, Distance and Speed.

Some one said Trinity can be understood by Tea. It is made of Tea leaves, Sugar and Milk. But he/she forgot the important fourth item. That was water.

So keep trying to explain Trinity or Triune God**.
 
inJESUS said:
Actually the Quran says humans are created in the best mould and Allah swears by creation, Allah even swears by horses and their hooves which, according to the Bible, elevates creation to the level of the Creator. Nevertheless, we see Allah swearing by animals’ hooves, and why not by donkeys, but when it comes to humanity, Muslims call human functions “imperfections”. I agree as well that the OP stuck me as typically islamic arguments because only Muslims use the argument that human functions are imperfections, when in fact a human is no human if he does not eat and sleep and go to the toilet.
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Allah swears by what He create and innovate, that doesn’t mean that we should take the creatures as Gods beside Him.

Allah created human beings and animals, and it is Allah who Honer us human being to have the best image among the creatures.

We don’t worship the creatures, we worship the Innovative Creator and we believe that He is Higher and more Majestic than every thing.

We don’t assign qualities for Allah, because it is something beyond our abilities.

We just follow what He by His Mercy and Blessing has informed us about Himself.

Unless He provide us with Glory, we cannot find Him, and thus we shall be in Hell for eternity.

“O Allah, Lord of Gabriel, and Michael, and Israfil, the Creator of the heavens and the earth, Who knowest the unseen and the seen; Thou decidest amongst Thy slaves concerning their differences. Guide me with Thy permission in the divergent views (which the people) hold about Truth, for it is Thou Who guidest whom Thou wilt to the Straight Path.” [Supplication of prophet Mohammad PAPBUH]

We don’t want you to be lost, we convey the message as it is, and you are free to believe or deny, or even attack our beloved prophet prayer and peace be upon Him and his family.

I think you will not loose if you invoke your creator to guide you to Himself and Honer you, so let us invoke the Creator.
 
In the name of Allah , Most Gracious, Most Merciful

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swariffin said:
…why the muslim need to condemn anybody ridiculing Muhammad and his version of God?
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Rejecting messenger of God means revolting against God . Those who are doing this will be fried in fire . What’s the problem if they get a taste of the punishment in the world ?

We must not worry about what punishment they are getting here . We must worry for their hereafter.
 
jastor said:
Did his followers believe he was the God they were praying too?
If he was God, wouldn’t he be praying to himself. Jesus and God are two different entities , how can a man be God? Man is imperfect, we use the toilet, eat, have bodily functions how is that perfect?
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Tha Father,The Son and the Holy Spirit all are God,just like me I,m a brother, I,m a husband and I,m a father but I,m still just one person.
 
Iamnotafraid said:
Faith must trample under foot all reason, sense, and understanding.

Reason is a whore, the greatest enemy that faith has.

Martin Luther
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Reason is how we make sense of things.
If it is not reasonable we are not likely to agree with it. IMHO.
 
abucs said:
Are you sure ? Some of you are very keen and sure in saying God cannot be incarnated as a man in our universe.
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They’ll never admit God can do that because then they’d have to accept that Muhammad was a false prophet.

Vickie
 
When you go to Heaven do you expect to go to the toilet, and use paper and call a plumber when it breaks down and pay a sewerage bill, and vote for someone to administer it ?

If not, aren’t you still you in Heaven whether you go to the toilet or not ?

Likewise whether God in heaven or incarnated man on earth, God is still God.
 
abucs said:
Reason is how we make sense of things.
If it is not reasonable we are not likely to agree with it. IMHO.
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**abucs, I fully agree with you. God has given us reason and intellect to use it to discern truth from falsehood. Then the next step would be to accept the truth and reject falsehood.

It is necessary that mankind should continue the search for truth. God is kind. It is sid (in Bible) “To the one who knocks, it will be opened unto him.” In Islam it is said that any one who walks in the way of Allah, Allah comes running towards him.

Th eproblem then arises when one finds the truth. For any one who does not use the intellect, it is equal whether he believes or not. But for the searcher of truth, it is continous job to keep porgressing towards the truth with patience and prayer. When a person finds a truth and accepts it, he is guided towards more truth. If he/she rejects to adopt the truth or delays the matter indefinitely, then he/she is not rewarded with any more truth.

So, the great problem arises when a person sees the truth, reaches near to and finds the truth. The question arises whether to accept the truth or not. That is the difficult time. When the truth come face to face with a person and the person is thinking about worldly matters, about relatives, about parents and gets disturbed as to what to do then. That is the difficult moment, the moment of truth. Then only with patience and prayers, one can be successful in adopting the truth. Otherwise that man/ woman gets lost for ever.**
 
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