When late for Mass

[Tis_Bearself]

I can accept that. When I was informed that a person could not receive communion if they did not participate in the Penitential Act, I viewed (or reconciled it) it like Isaiah 6 where Isaiah viewed the Lord with unclean lips and the Seraphim gave him a coal to burn his lips and make him pure. I viewed the Penitential Act as effectively doing this for us so we can approach the Lord free of venial sin. Or, perhaps, I need to reread Isaiah 6.

If purification is not the point of the Penitential Act, then what is the reason it is included in the liturgy? **A simple confession prior to mass removing mortal sin should be sufficient. ** Also, am I way off the mark?

Actually, a confession prior to Mass removing any mortal sin IS sufficient. The only requirement for Communion is that you not be in mortal sin and keep the one-hour fast beforehand. You may be in venial sin, and while frequent confessions to wipe the slate clean of your venial sins is a good practice, it is not required that you get rid of all venial sin before you receive Communion; it may well be impossible unless you were absolved and then in the next second given the Host.

A Catholic going through the Penitential Rite is not “purified” of sin. If they were, then there would be no need for the Sacrament of Confession as we could just go to the Penitential Rite at Mass and get rid of our sins there.

USCCB.org has this discussion of the purpose of the Penitential Rite on its website (under “Introductory Rites”) which I think sums up nicely what the Penitential Rite is for.

The Penitential Act follows the greeting. At the very beginning of the Mass, the faithful recall their sins and place their trust in God’s abiding mercy. The Penitential Act includes the Kyrie Eleison, a Greek phrase meaning, “Lord, have mercy.” This litany recalls God’s merciful actions throughout history. On Sundays, especially in Easter Time, in place of the customary Penitential Act, from time to time the blessing and sprinkling of water to recall Baptism may take place.

In short - it’s a recollection and a showing of confidence in God, not a procedure to prepare us to receive Holy Communion by removing our sins.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

To add on, this is from the USCCB “Guidelines for Reception of Communion” for Catholics:

As Catholics, we fully participate in the celebration of the Eucharist when we receive Holy Communion. We are encouraged to receive Communion devoutly and frequently. In order to be properly disposed to receive Communion, participants should not be conscious of grave sin and normally should have fasted for one hour. A person who is conscious of grave sin is not to receive the Body and Blood of the Lord without prior sacramental confession except for a grave reason where there is no opportunity for confession. In this case, the person is to be mindful of the obligation to make an act of perfect contrition, including the intention of confessing as soon as possible (canon 916). A frequent reception of the Sacrament of Penance is encouraged for all.

No mention here of a requirement to have been present at Mass for the Penitential Rite, or the Gospel or anything else.

People can sometimes receive Communion outside of a Mass as well, as long as it’s not their second Communion in one day (which would have to be done at a Mass) so presumably when they are receiving outside of the Mass context, there is no Penitential Rite and/or no Gospel.

 

[WJeffrey]

Thanks for clarifying this for me. I appreciate it.

 

[Cor_ad_Cor]

You have to be present for the Offertory, Consecration and Communion. These are the three essential parts of the Mass.

An excellent and pious practice, though I would say the same equally applies to other parts of the Mass as well. The reality is that neither this nor any of the other great opinions here are encoded as law anywhere.

 

[otjm]

There are two parts of the Mass; the Liturgy of the Word and the Liturgy of the Eucharist.

If you are late for the Liturgy of the Word, you are late for Mass.

All these machinations, and “Sister said” bits are irrelevant.

it is far simpler than all that.

(For those who are not married and/or are living at home - just go with the following) You and your spouse are invited to your mother-in-law’s for Sunday dinner.

You walk in, and everyone is seated at the table.

They have not said grace.

Plates are still empty.

You are late. Period. End of discussion.

There was a legitimate reason you were late; work which you had to do (as in a business, not your cutting the lawn) and you couldn’t get out; traffic accident holding up traffic; sick child (or one throwing a tantrum and you are trying to exercise patience).

All are legitimate reasons you might be late.

But you are still late. Make your apologies, provide the reason, and then sit down to dinner with everyone else.

Back to Mass; if there is no other Mass available, then you go forward; attend what is left, receive Communion (assuming the lateness is not your fault).

If there is another Mass available, the better choice would be to back out quietly and go to that. On time.

As to not receiving Communion if you are late, again based on a legitimate reason you are late; of course receive. You would receive if you were in the hospital, or laid up at home and could not get to Mass and someone brought you Communion.

All this bit about you are not late if you missed (Penitential Rite, OT reading; Gospel reading; homily) is just poppycock. Go back to the dinner; that is like saying you are not late for dinner if everyone has already eaten their salad, or they have not yet had seconds on the main course.

And if you are late on a frequent basis, then step up to adulthood, accept the responsibility, and alter what you are doing (such as starting out 15 or 20 minutes earlier).

 

[buc_fan33]

There are two parts of the Mass; the Liturgy of the Word and the Liturgy of the Eucharist.

If you are late for the Liturgy of the Word, you are late for Mass.

All these machinations, and “Sister said” bits are irrelevant.

it is far simpler than all that.

(For those who are not married and/or are living at home - just go with the following) You and your spouse are invited to your mother-in-law’s for Sunday dinner.

You walk in, and everyone is seated at the table.

They have not said grace.

Plates are still empty.

You are late. Period. End of discussion.

There was a legitimate reason you were late; work which you had to do (as in a business, not your cutting the lawn) and you couldn’t get out; traffic accident holding up traffic; sick child (or one throwing a tantrum and you are trying to exercise patience).

All are legitimate reasons you might be late.

But you are still late. Make your apologies, provide the reason, and then sit down to dinner with everyone else.

Back to Mass; if there is no other Mass available, then you go forward; attend what is left, receive Communion (assuming the lateness is not your fault).

If there is another Mass available, the better choice would be to back out quietly and go to that. On time.

As to not receiving Communion if you are late, again based on a legitimate reason you are late; of course receive. You would receive if you were in the hospital, or laid up at home and could not get to Mass and someone brought you Communion.

All this bit about you are not late if you missed (Penitential Rite, OT reading; Gospel reading; homily) is just poppycock. Go back to the dinner; that is like saying you are not late for dinner if everyone has already eaten their salad, or they have not yet had seconds on the main course.

And if you are late on a frequent basis, then step up to adulthood, accept the responsibility, and alter what you are doing (such as starting out 15 or 20 minutes earlier).

This should be a bulletin insert in every parish.

 

[DarkLight]

The question isn’t about the technical definition of the word late. We all know that if you miss even the first bit, you’re late.

The question is at what point that “lateness” means that you have failed to meet your Mass obligation. And there isn’t an official church teaching on that.

 

[buc_fan33]

The question isn’t about the technical definition of the word late. We all know that if you miss even the first bit, you’re late.

The question is at what point that “lateness” means that you have failed to meet your Mass obligation. And there isn’t an official church teaching on that.

Right. Because Mass is Mass. Mass begins and ends when the priest reverences the altar. Now, would I tell someone that they missed their obligation if they came in at the Gloria? No. But it’s more than just an obligation. Worrying about that is missing the point.

 

[Don_Ruggero]

Right. Because Mass is Mass. Mass begins and ends when the priest reverences the altar. Now, would I tell someone that they missed their obligation if they came in at the Gloria? No. But it’s more than just an obligation. Worrying about that is missing the point.

Indeed, Father.

The world’s bishops addressed this when, in Sacrosanctum Concilium, they reminded the Catholic world that we could not say one part of Mass was more important or more central – as some, particularly of the manualists, had wrongfully tried to do

1. The two parts which, in a certain sense, go to make up the Mass, namely, the liturgy of the word and the eucharistic liturgy, are so closely connected with each other that they form but one single act of worship. Accordingly this sacred Synod strongly urges pastors of souls that, when instructing the faithful, they insistently teach them to take their part in the entire Mass, especially on Sundays and feasts of obligation.

 

[otjm]

The question isn’t about the technical definition of the word late. We all know that if you miss even the first bit, you’re late.

The question is at what point that “lateness” means that you have failed to meet your Mass obligation. And there isn’t an official church teaching on that.

If you are late through no fault of your own and there is no other Mass available, you have not failed to meet your obligation. You have done what was possible.

It is the same as if you were too sick to attend; there is than no obligation.

If it is your fault that you were late, then take it up with your confessor in an honest fashion (that is, don’t whine). The confessor will determine whether it is a venial sin or a mortal sin, and then you will know pretty much where you stand. And likely it will be a venial sin. Not guaranteed, but likely.

 

[otjm]

The question isn’t about the technical definition of the word late. We all know that if you miss even the first bit, you’re late.

The question is at what point that “lateness” means that you have failed to meet your Mass obligation. And there isn’t an official church teaching on that.

I don’t have an obligation to attend Mass.

I have a privilege to do so.

I learned that about 60 years ago when I met a young man, about to be ordained. who had fled North Vietnam. Some of his family had not made it out; and of those, some were jailed, and some were killed in their attempt.

He did not consider Mass an obligation; it was a privilege.

Even as soft spoken and as quiet as he was, I learned a great deal.

Sadly, all too many see Mass as (SIGH!) an obligation.

It is all about perspective.

 

[DarkLight]

Right. Because Mass is Mass. Mass begins and ends when the priest reverences the altar. Now, would I tell someone that they missed their obligation if they came in at the Gloria? No. But it’s more than just an obligation. Worrying about that is missing the point.

I think it’s one of those things that’s best taken to you’re own conscience and perhaps discussed with your priest.

I had a period, due to health, when the fact that I managed to put on clothes, bathe, and make it out the door to Mass was a feat by itself. Worrying about whether I was late or not at that point in my life would have been entirely the wrong thing to do.

For someone else, it might be something that you need to make changes to get to regularly. It just depends on what’s going on.

 

[poche]

The Church has no such definition as to what is “too late” to “count”.

If I ‘felt’ I were too late to share fully in the celebration of the Mass I would have refrained from receiving Communion. I would also examine my conscience to see if my lateness to a Sunday Mass was due to my own fault or was beyond my control. If it were truly beyond my control I would probably not go to Confession but if the lateness was due to my fault, such as I didn’t start out early enough to get there on time, I would attempt to attend a later Mass or confess the sin at my next weekly Confession.

My rule of thumb for myself validly attending a Mass is that I’m “too late” if I’ve missed the Penitential Rite. If I haven’t taken had the time to say “sorry” than I’m too late to eat at the Lord’s Table. In that case it would include saying “Lord Have Mercy” for showing up after the celebrant’s initial greeting.

My parent’s catechism had a defination for when it was too late to consider it counting as having fulfilled your obligation of assisting at mass. It was when the offertory began. tehn if you arrived after that you were considered as having missed that mass and still having the obligation to assist at mass.

 

[Rosebud77]

I once sat through a very angry homily on the subject of being late for mass; ie seeing how late people could be to still count as having fulfilled their obligation.

Trouble was that we who were there were not the ones who needed to hear it.

Hate that word 'obligation"

 

[suezette]

Thank you all, I have been fully answered. Thanks again.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

I think it’s one of those things that’s best taken to you’re own conscience and perhaps discussed with your priest.

I had a period, due to health, when the fact that I managed to put on clothes, bathe, and make it out the door to Mass was a feat by itself. Worrying about whether I was late or not at that point in my life would have been entirely the wrong thing to do.

For someone else, it might be something that you need to make changes to get to regularly. It just depends on what’s going on.

We’ve all had those times. And when not having them for ourselves, we may be having them in connection with another family member, such as an elderly person who needs extra time or has lost their sense of time, or children who are hard to get dressed and rounded up and out the door.

I like to think the Church not speaking to this issue is the Magisterium being charitable, and leaving it up to us and our conscience. I was very late to Mass about a week ago. Do I think I committed a mortal sin? No. Do I think I committed a venial sin? Yes, and I confessed it. Was I happy about being late? No. Did I think it was OK that I was late? No. It was one of those things that happened because the spirit wanted to go but the flesh fell down on the job. That is why we have Confession. I was on time for Saturday Mass this week and I was on time for Sunday Mass and then on Monday I was late because I was trying to find my checkbook to make a payment to the church for something that they then didn’t collect at that Mass…stuff happens…you deal.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

If there is another Mass available, the better choice would be to back out quietly and go to that. On time.

Sorry, but when I am late, regardless of whether there is “another Mass available”, I don’t feel any need to “back out quietly” and go to some other Mass, any more than Mom would expect me to skip her family dinner because I was late and join her for a late snack later when I could be on time.

I have days when I do go to 2 Masses for one reason or another. I have days when I go to 1 Mass. I have days when I am on time for the 2 Masses, or the 1 Mass, and I have days when I am late for vast numbers of reasons ranging from illness, family responsibility popping up at the last second, getting stuck in traffic, or even not being able to get into the church because they are having Mass in some unfamiliar chapel and there is only one door open and somebody had to show me which one it was because I couldn’t get into the others. And some days when I am late because I am “at fault” for being lazy or spiritually discouraged or not planning well enough. I do not make excuses for myself when that is actually the case. I tell it in confession.

It’s between me and God, and the owning up I might do about being late is also between me and God. It’s not your business or anyone else’s - other than the priest in the confessional, if he feels it necessary - to lecture me about this. <----And by saying that, I am not trying to make this “all about me” or make it into a personal thing. I am just noting that it is pretty presumptuous for us to assume we know the full circumstances that might make someone late, or tell them that in that situation, they shouldn’t even bother to attend the rest of the Mass at all. That is how you drive someone away from the Church - insinuate that if they weren’t “good enough” to be on time, or wear the “right” clothes, or this or that, then don’t even bother showing up.