When Leaving Church After Mass

[roveau]

I cross myself when entering the church at the side entrance where you can’t see the altar as you enter. The holy water font evidently doesn’t have to be in view of the tabernacle.

I cross myself when leaving because I am entering the world again - and I need all the blessings I can get.

 

[ProVobis]

Tabernacle should be the prime focus because BBSD of our Lord is kept in it .

Why would you pay more attention to a representation of Christ than to His actual Body and Blood?

God Bless

Points taken but I’m almost sure the rubrics in the EF have the priest bowing either to the cross (whenever Jesus is mentioned) or to the missal (when Mary is mentioned). The cross is generally front and center in most churches as well. I’m not going to say the tabernacle is unimportant though because it has a basis in Exodus 25. It’s also mentioned at the end of the Prayers of the Foot of the Altar as Sancta Sanctorum. (I think someone has mentioned that the Tabernacle doesn’t always have the actual Body and Blood, like on Good Friday or when it serves as a placeholder in someone’s house or hotel room, for example. I’ve seen that.)

Someone correct but doesn’t the priest carry the crucifix in some of the Eastern rites?

We bow to the altar. We genuflect to the tabernacle, but only when Jesus is present.

There is no need to genuflect to the altar. If the tabernacle is open and Jesus is not present or if the tabernacle is someplace else then a bow is all that is required.

OTOH, when the Blessed Sacrament is exposed, the traditional gesture was to genuflect on TWO knees. I don’t know what the current rules are.

 

[bilop]

Points taken but I’m almost sure the rubrics in the EF have the priest bowing either to the cross (whenever Jesus is mentioned) or to the missal (when Mary is mentioned). The cross is generally front and center in most churches as well. I’m not going to say the tabernacle is unimportant though because it has a basis in Exodus 25. It’s also mentioned at the end of the Prayers of the Foot of the Altar as Sancta Sanctorum. (I think someone has mentioned that the Tabernacle doesn’t always have the actual Body and Blood, like on Good Friday or when it serves as a placeholder in someone’s house or hotel room, for example. I’ve seen that.)

Someone correct but doesn’t the priest carry the crucifix in some of the Eastern rites?

OTOH, when the Blessed Sacrament is exposed, the traditional gesture was to genuflect on TWO knees. I don’t know what the current rules are.

In my observation, in the EF, the priest doesn’t turn at all when bowing at the mention of Jesus. He just bows over the missal, in whatever direction he is facing while reading the prayer.

As there is no common position for the crucifix in a Church, bowing towards it would create a very disruptive rubric. The Tabernacle is usually right in the middle of the altar in an EF setup, so usually the priest is bowing more or less towards it, but not always. Likewise the Crucifix it could be anywhere in the Sanctuary.

The Tabernacle is important because the body and blood of Christ is inside; not because of anything in Exodus. At the end of the day, the Crucifix is artwork, a reminder of Christ. The Tabernacle contains the real thing.

God Bless

 

[ProVobis]

In the video, “The Most Beautiful Thing This Side of Heaven,” an instruction on how to say the EF, bowing toward the cross is mentioned several times. Just sayin.

 

[johnthebaptist2]

To me,I would say both ways are OK.

 

[bilop]

In the video, “The Most Beautiful Thing This Side of Heaven,” an instruction on how to say the EF, bowing toward the cross is mentioned several times. Just sayin.

Is it in the rubrics? I haven’t seen it done.

Here:

sanctamissa.org/en/rubrics/

in the Gospel section, it says “When the name of Jesus is mentioned, the head is bowed towards the book…”

A bow towards the Cross is indicated at the Oremus.

God Bless

 

[Elizium23]

Blessing yourself with Holy Water does not absolve your venial sins. It’s a Sacramental, not a Sacrament. Only Sacraments absolve sin.

The Eucharist absolves venial sins, if you are free from Mortal Sin.

God Bless

I beg your pardon but you are wrong, according to St. Thomas Aquinas and the Baltimore Catechism.

Here follows a text from Saint Thomas and the Baltimore Catechism, which teach that sacramentals such a Holy Water, when used with devotion, remit venial sin–or at least dispose one for this grace.

 

[bben15]

We bow to the altar. We genuflect to the tabernacle, but only when Jesus is present.

There is no need to genuflect to the altar. If the tabernacle is open and Jesus is not present or if the tabernacle is someplace else then a bow is all that is required.

-Tim-

I believe we genuflect to the altar on Good Friday.

 

[bilop]

I beg your pardon but you are wrong, according to St. Thomas Aquinas and the Baltimore Catechism.

Did you read the Baltimore Catechism you linked?

Answer to Q1054

“The Sacramental of themselves do not remit venial sins”

God bless

 

[livingwordunity]

We bow to the altar. We genuflect to the tabernacle, but only when Jesus is present.

There is no need to genuflect to the altar. If the tabernacle is open and Jesus is not present or if the tabernacle is someplace else then a bow is all that is required.

That’s what I meant to say.

 

[Elizium23]

Did you read the Baltimore Catechism you linked?

Answer to Q1054

“The Sacramental of themselves do not remit venial sins”

God bless

Please don’t prooftext but quote the whole sentence. Sacramentals are not magical charms and that is why they do not cause remission by themselves.

A. The Sacramentals of themselves do not remit venial sins, but they move us to truer devotion, to greater love for God and greater sorrow for our sins, and this devotion, love and sorrow bring us grace, and the grace remits venial sins.

Therefore, holy water + devotion = grace → remission of sins. And you didn’t read your Aquinas at all, or your objection would have been answered.

In the same way we can say that Jesus did not heal the sick but their faith itself effected the cure. This is self-evident if we read closely.

[BIBLEDRB]Mark 5:34[/BIBLEDRB]
[BIBLEDRB]Mark 10:52[/BIBLEDRB]
[BIBLEDRB]Luke 7:50[/BIBLEDRB]
[BIBLEDRB]Matthew 9:22[/BIBLEDRB]

 

[ProVobis]

Is it in the rubrics? I haven’t seen it done.

Here:

sanctamissa.org/en/rubrics/

in the Gospel section, it says “When the name of Jesus is mentioned, the head is bowed towards the book…”

A bow towards the Cross is indicated at the Oremus.

God Bless

It also says in your link (good link, by the way):

"…He then makes a profound bow to the Altar or the image of the Crucifix above it. If, however, there is a Tabernacle containing the Blessed Sacrament on the Altar, he genuflects and pays it due reverence…

Further,

“Then he returns to the middle of the Altar, reverences the Crucifix, turns toward the Epistle side…”

Still further,

“The Deacon and Subdeacon from this point henceforth assist the Celebrant when he incenses, and when they pass before the Cross, they always genuflect…”

“Then, with hands joined as before, he turns around the same way to the book, where he extends his hands, and joining them before his breast, bowing his head toward the Cross, he says: 'Oremus.”…

“Then the Priest himself in read Masses, or else the minister, carries the Missal to the Gospel side of the Altar, bowing to the Cross as he passes in front of the Altar…”

Bows to the Cross again in the Credo, “Jesum Christum,” “simul adoratur,” before the preface, “Deo nostro,” Communicantes “Jesu Christe,”

I stopped there.

 

[bilop]

Please don’t prooftext but quote the whole sentence. Sacramentals are not magical charms and that is why they do not cause remission by themselves.

Therefore, holy water + devotion = grace → remission of sins. And you didn’t read your Aquinas at all, or your objection would have been answered.

In the same way we can say that Jesus did not heal the sick but their faith itself effected the cure. This is self-evident if we read closely.

[BIBLEDRB]Mark 5:34[/BIBLEDRB]
[BIBLEDRB]Mark 10:52[/BIBLEDRB]
[BIBLEDRB]Luke 7:50[/BIBLEDRB]
[BIBLEDRB]Matthew 9:22[/BIBLEDRB]

Aquinas says sprinkling with Holy Water “conduces” the remission of venial sins. He doesn’t say it causes it.

God Bless

 

[ProVobis]

Partial indulgence for using holy water

 

[bilop]

Partial indulgence for using holy water

Yes, partial indulgences mean part of the punishment is taken away. Remission implies all the punishment is taken away.

I never said that using Holy Water is bad, far from it, I just think it’s wrong to say that it remits venial sins. It can help us towards the remission of our sins, but no sacramental can achieve that on its own.

God Bless

 

[Elizium23]

Using holy water with devotion obtains the grace which forgives (remits) venial sins. In addition, a partial indulgence attached by the Church to holy water (and to the Sign of the Cross) remits (forgives) temporal punishment for sins already committed (whether they be venial or mortal).

So there are two actions set in motion by the use of holy water and you have conflated them.

For comparison, absolution in Confession forgives mortal sins, but does not remit the temporal punishment from them. Doing penance and gaining indulgences is the way to do this.