When Mormons and JWs try to convert each other

[Lepanto]

I, a Catholic, have been visited by both Mormons and JWs over the years. I’ve occasionally wondered what it would be like when Mormon missionaries ring a doorbell only to find that it is a JW’s home (and vice versa).

Oh, how I’d like to be a fly on that wall!!

 

[BibleSteve]

As a JW, I have had many Mormon’s call on my door. First and foremost, I show kindness and hospitality. I invite them to share their message. I politely ask them why they believe as they do. I ask them a few questions I have that contradict their faith.

I am polite and we both enjoy the discussion. I follow up by asking if they know what JW’s believe and share a few scriptural points. They are usually polite in asking about why I believe as I do.

We both have an enoyable conversation and part showing kindness and hospitality.

 

[zerinus]

As a JW, I have had many Mormon’s call on my door. First and foremost, I show kindness and hospitality. I invite them to share their message. I politely ask them why they believe as they do. I ask them a few questions I have that contradict their faith.

I am polite and we both enjoy the discussion. I follow up by asking if they know what JW’s believe and share a few scriptural points. They are usually polite in asking about why I believe as I do.

We both have an enoyable conversation and part showing kindness and hospitality.

I second that. I have had several occasions to discuss religion with JWs, and generally found them courteous and responsive and willing to listen. Occasionally you find one who is fanatical and hard headed and unable to carry out a sensible discussion; but you find that in any religion, including Catholicism—witness how some of the folks behave round here!

zerinus

 

[yessisan]

Right before DH and I married, he got a visit from 2 Mormon guys at our apartment. DH is a JW and it was funny to hear that they almost ran out the door when DH took out his NWT bilbe. As soon as they saw he was a JW, they had barely anything to say and left as quickily as they could. They didn’t want to hear about Jesus or Jehovah. DH did get to ask a question. He asked what on earth made Joseph Smith think he was the next “prophet” and why they believe they can become gods. I wish I would’ve been there to ask some Catholic things.

 

[s4angel]

I to have been visited by both the mormons and Jahovah witnesses.

I had a lady from the JW who used to come by once a week before my ex found out and was so rude she never came back. I found our time to be very informational and learned to be a better person for it. But I never understood why I couldn’t celebrate the day my children were born because I considered them to be my blessing from the lord.

The mormons are also very nice however my younger sister is a mormon and while I did not mind debating with her I did draw the line when she started reading the book of mormon and trying to devert my children to her faith when I was not around to put a stop to it. When I confronted her I told her simply just as I needed her permission to take her child to my church and read them the Catachism she needed my permission for the same. It was not taken in a good way and she left basically calling me a pagan. I love my sister but my childrens faith and how I raise them is my decision. She told me things during our debates that really bothered me about that religion.

 

[Greg_Dent]

I have always wlecomed the JW, and Mormons into my home. the last time the JWs came they handed me their magazine called “Watchtower”. I accepted it, and then offered to them a small book I had that was written by an ex JW called “Kicked Out Of the Kingdom”. Of course they refused to take it, so I returned their magazine as well. I told the man "I am always ready to exchange ideas, but if you won’t read my literature why should I read yours?.. The Mormons they came to my door once and I asked the smartly dressed young man where their belief in Polygamy came from? He said the “Lord used to give men more than one wife”. I replied "Really?.. how many wives did God give Adam in garden.?

 

[zerinus]

The Mormons they came to my door once and I asked the smartly dressed young man where their belief in Polygamy came from? He said the “Lord used to give men more than one wife”. I replied "Really?.. how many wives did God give Adam in garden.?

That is silly. How many wives did God give to Abraham? How many to Jacob? How many to Moses, David, Solomon, and the prophets? Adam needed one wife to start the race, and God gave him that one. How many do you think He should have given him to prove polygamy? If He had given him two wives, you would have said, why didn’t He give him three? If He had given him three, you would have said, why didn’t He give him four? If He had given him four, you would have said why didn’t He give him five. . . .

If you want to look at it that way, then all of the immediate descendents of Adam were incestuous, because they all married each other’s brothers and sisters! Besides, how do you know that Adam didn’t have more than one wife? Adam lived to be nearly 1,000 years old. He could have done all kinds of things during that time that we know nothing about. The Bible doesn’t tell much about what did during his long life. Who knows; if it was permissible for the immediate descendents of Adam to marry each other’s brothers and sisters, and the next generation to marry each other’s nephews and nieces, then it might have been permissible for Adam to marry one of his own great great great great grand daughters. Adam would have still been relatively young when he was 300 years old, and could have married one of his own nth generation descendents.

zerinus

 

[yessisan]

That is silly. How many wives did God give to Abraham? How many to Jacob? How many to Moses, David, Solomon, and the prophets? Adam needed one wife to start the race, and God gave him that one. How many do you think He should have given him to prove polygamy? If He had given him two wives, you would have said, why didn’t He give him three? If He had given him three, you would have said, why didn’t He give him four? If He had given him four, you would have said why didn’t He give him five. . . .

If you want to look at it that way, then all of the immediate descendents of Adam were incestuous, because they all married each other’s brothers and sisters! Besides, how do you know that Adam didn’t have more than one wife? Adam lived to be nearly 1,000 years old. He could have done all kinds of things during that time that we know nothing about. The Bible doesn’t tell much about what did during his long life. Who knows; if it was permissible for the immediate descendents of Adam to marry each other’s brothers and sisters, and the next generation to marry each other’s nephews and nieces, then it might have been permissible for Adam to marry one of his own great great great great grand daughters. Adam would have still been relatively young when he was 300 years old, and could have married one of his own nth generation descendents.

zerinus

So are you saying polygamy is a biblical practice after the OT? The NT laws are not applicable any more. So according to Matt 19: 4-9 Jesus is saying marriage is for two people, man and wife and being with/marrying another is adultery. Were Mormons implying Jesus was lying?

4 5 He said in reply, “Have you not read that from the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female’ 5 and said, ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’? 6 So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore, what God has joined together, no human being must separate.” 7 6 They said to him, “Then why did Moses command that the man give the woman a bill of divorce and dismiss (her)?” 8 He said to them, “Because of the hardness of your hearts Moses allowed you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so. 9 I say to you, 7 whoever divorces his wife (unless the marriage is unlawful) and marries another commits adultery.”

 

[Greg_Dent]

That is silly. How many wives did God give to Abraham? How many to Jacob? How many to Moses, David, Solomon, and the prophets? Adam needed one wife to start the race, and God gave him that one. How many do you think He should have given him to prove polygamy? If He had given him two wives, you would have said, why didn’t He give him three? If He had given him three, you would have said, why didn’t He give him four? If He had given him four, you would have said why didn’t He give him five. . . .

If you want to look at it that way, then all of the immediate descendents of Adam were incestuous, because they all married each other’s brothers and sisters! Besides, how do you know that Adam didn’t have more than one wife? Adam lived to be nearly 1,000 years old. He could have done all kinds of things during that time that we know nothing about. The Bible doesn’t tell much about what did during his long life. Who knows; if it was permissible for the immediate descendents of Adam to marry each other’s brothers and sisters, and the next generation to marry each other’s nephews and nieces, then it might have been permissible for Adam to marry one of his own great great great great grand daughters. Adam would have still been relatively young when he was 300 years old, and could have married one of his own nth generation descendents.

zerinus

How many wives would it take for the Lord to encourage poligamy? Any more than one would have been enough I think. The fact that the patriarchs of the OT took more than one wife does not infer that God endorsed it…I don’t recall that Adam and Eve were the ONLY humans God made in the Garden, just the first. So your assumptions of mass incest are not given…As far as what Adam may or may have not done during the course of his long life we do not know. Why?? Because the scriptures do not suppy us with exhaustive truth, or knowledge. The truth of Adam, is that he and the ONE wife God gave him sinned, and so it
goes…
Greg

 

[zerinus]

So are you saying polygamy is a biblical practice after the OT? The NT laws are not applicable any more. So according to Matt 19: 4-9 Jesus is saying marriage is for two people, man and wife and being with/marrying another is adultery. Were Mormons implying Jesus was lying?

Where does it say in the NT that polygamy was ilegal, or that the Jewish law was abrogated? The verses you quote say no such thing.

zerinus

 

[zerinus]

How many wives would it take for the Lord to encourage poligamy? Any more than one would have been enough I think.

I don’t think so. If God had made for Adam two wives instead of one, you would have argued, two is the maximum that one is allowed, because if God wanted us to have more than two wives, He would have made for Adam more than two. That is the basic falacy of your argument.

The fact that the patriarchs of the OT took more than one wife does not infer that God endorsed it…

Actually, it does. There are several passages in the OT where God has endorsed polygamy.

I don’t recall that Adam and Eve were the ONLY humans God made in the Garden, just the first. So your assumptions of mass incest are not given…

Wow, that is a strange one. So does the Catholic Church believe that God made more than one Adam and Eve? I hadn’t heard of that before.

As far as what Adam may or may have not done during the course of his long life we do not know. Why?? Because the scriptures do not suppy us with exhaustive truth, or knowledge. The truth of Adam, is that he and the ONE wife God gave him sinned, and so it goes…

Sorry, I didn’t follow that one.

zerinus

 

[MelanieAnne]

My Mormon friends like to ask the Jehovah Witness people that stop by to accept a Book of Mormon in exchange for the literature the Jehovah Witness person wants to give out. Funny how they never want to accept…

Of course, as Catholics, we have another belief, but that’s another story.

 

[yessisan]

Where does it say in the NT that polygamy was ilegal, or that the Jewish law was abrogated? The verses you quote say no such thing.

zerinus

Fine, I don’t know much about Mormons and cannot find the right verses at this time, but why would the Book of Mormon have these two verses? They sure are anti-polygamy -

Jacob 2:27
“Wherefore, my brethren, hear me, and hearken to the word of the Lord: For there shall not any man among you have save it be one wife; and concubines he shall have none.”

Jacob 2:24
“Behold, David and Solomon truly had many wives and concubines, which thing was abominable before me, saith the Lord.”

Is it that Mormons deny ever allowing it?

Back to the OP… I don’t know how common it is for JWs and Mormons to knock on each other’s doors. I have NEVER been approached by a Mormon, but have been approached several times by the JWs… maybe because I am marrie to one (JW)

 

[mark_a]

I second that. I have had several occasions to discuss religion with JWs, and generally found them courteous and responsive and willing to listen. Occasionally you find one who is fanatical and hard headed and unable to carry out a sensible discussion; but you find that in any religion, including Catholicism—witness how some of the folks behave round here!

zerinus

I find nothing wrong with not wanting to listen to someone whose beliefs you want no part of. I don’t hate the person, but I don’t need them stirring up trouble in my house.

We firmly and politely send them on their way to use their time more wisely. They are at my home to “win souls” for their “brand” and it ain’t gonna happen.

Would JW’s and Mormons invite a Catholic evangelizer into their busy schedule?

 

[BibleSteve]

I find nothing wrong with not wanting to listen to someone whose beliefs you want no part of. I don’t hate the person, but I don’t need them stirring up trouble in my house.

We firmly and politely send them on their way to use their time more wisely. They are at my home to “win souls” for their “brand” and it ain’t gonna happen.

Would JW’s and Mormons invite a Catholic evangelizer into their busy schedule?

Yes, I would:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=173505

Post #11

 

[Greg_Dent]

I don’t think so. If God had made for Adam two wives instead of one, you would have argued, two is the maximum that one is allowed, because if God wanted us to have more than two wives, He would have made for Adam more than two. That is the basic falacy of your argument.

Why is that falacy? I based my reasoning on the fact that God did give Adam one wife. Not two, or three etc. If he had, then you could say that the argument that God wanted men to haved one wife silly. So, When he gives the man one wife is it not reasonable to assume that that is the way God wanted it?

Actually, it does. There are several passages in the OT where God has endorsed polygamy.

I’ve never read any…does anyone know what they are? And hopefully not take them out of context.

Wow, that is a strange one. So does the Catholic Church believe that God made more than one Adam and Eve? I hadn’t heard of that before.

I am not a spokesman for the Catholic church. As a child in a Catholic school I was taught that God MAY have made more than one man and woman. It is not unreasonable to assume the good Lord would know that genetic diversity was essential to the well being of his creation.

Sorry, I didn’t follow that one.

The scriptures and the church provide us with truthes about God and his creation. They are not complete or exhaustive truthes. We don’t know everything about Adam and Eve, us or God.

zerinus

We kinda got off on a tangent. I didn’t mean to start a big argument over poligamy.

 

[Maui71]

I have always wlecomed the JW, and Mormons into my home. the last time the JWs came they handed me their magazine called “Watchtower”. I accepted it, and then offered to them a small book I had that was written by an ex JW called “Kicked Out Of the Kingdom”. Of course they refused to take it, so I returned their magazine as well. I told the man "I am always ready to exchange ideas, but if you won’t read my literature why should I read yours?.. The Mormons they came to my door once and I asked the smartly dressed young man where their belief in Polygamy came from? He said the “Lord used to give men more than one wife”. I replied "Really?.. how many wives did God give Adam in garden.?

That was AWESOME!

 

[PaulDupre]

Fine, I don’t know much about Mormons and cannot find the right verses at this time, but why would the Book of Mormon have these two verses? They sure are anti-polygamy -

Jacob 2:27
“Wherefore, my brethren, hear me, and hearken to the word of the Lord: For there shall not any man among you have save it be one wife; and concubines he shall have none.”

This is one of the very strange LDS contradictions. The BofM says that David and Solomon’s many wives and concubines were “an abomination” to God. Then, a few years later, D&C Section 132 says this:

38 David also received many wives and concubines, and also Solomon and Moses my servants, as also many others of my servants, from the beginning of creation until this time; and in nothing did they sin save in those things which they received not of me.

39 David’s wives and concubines were given unto him of me, by the hand of Nathan, my servant, and others of the prophets who had the keys of this power; and in none of these things did he sin against me save in the case of Uriah and his wife; and, therefore he hath fallen from his exaltation, and received his portion; and he shall not inherit them out of the world, for I gave them unto another, saith the Lord.

It is true that 2 Samuel 12:8 reports that David’s many wives and concubines (who were formerly King Saul’s wives and concubines) were given to him by the Lord. I think the discrepency between the BofM and the D&C (and between the BofM and the Bible) is that the very proper and Protestant Sidney Rigdon wrote the doctrinal parts of the BofM and the very randy Joseph Smith invented D&C 132.

Just my opinion.
Paul

 

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