When only one can live

[Sufjon]

You make me laugh because you didn’t even bother to understand what I said. I said BIRTH scenario. Which means the child is big and can be delivered. I don’t know why the child can’t just be delivered and have to be aborted. A birth scenario is different from the pregnancy period. Besides, unless your aborting a tiny fetus, abortion is a surgical procedure and would cause loss of blood. How is it is different from a c-section?

Yes Constantine, I was talking about scenarios where for instance in the first trimester it is found that a woman cannot support a fetus to the point where it would be mature enough for a C-section, or a number of other scenarios like that. If you are speaking about a scenario where a pregnancy has progressed to a point where a C-section is as viable an option as an abortion in regards to the woman’s health, then I would have to agree that I would support the C-section over an abortion anytime. I do not believe in killing any living thing. I do, however, support a woman’s or any person’s right to protect his or her own health. My reaction to the post (even if I misread it) is based on the terror I would feel if I were a woman living in a society where the laws of my land required me to die to save a fetus. My sense from your clarification is this is not what you were promoting.

Your friend,
Sufjon

 

[mark_a]

What are the branches of Islam? I never heard of Islam having branches.

Sunni, Shiite, Ahmadiyya, Druze?

But as for the stand Islam takes on abortion: islamqa.com/en/ref/42321

For your source:

3 – It is not permissible to abort a pregnancy when it is an ‘alaqah (clot) or mudghah (chewed lump of flesh) (which are the second and third periods of forty days each)

What???

 

[adrift]

I’m being led to the conclusion that the Catholic church is so vehemently anti-abortion that it is blinded regarding the mother.

I don’t support abortion at all, but I think some have gone to an extreme in their opposition.

It seems to me that this was your preconceived conclusion and that facts aren’t going to get in your way.

Some years ago in Reader’s Digest there was a story of a woman who was told by her doctors that because of a condition she had that she must have an abortion. She however refused. As the baby grew he pused up against her ribs which caused her condition to improve to the point of saving her life.

Jesus said we must loose are life in order to save it. Living is not our goal but to live a holy life. That cannot be achieved by killing another. How can a true mother wish her own life over that of her child.

 

[Sister_Amy]

Sunni, Shiite, Ahmadiyya, Druze?

For your source:
What???

It doesn’t make sense in English. They’re trying to translate Arabic terms from the Qur’an used to describe the stages of fetal development. And the translation is just wacky.

 

[Sister_Amy]

It seems to me that this was your preconceived conclusion and that facts aren’t going to get in your way.

Some years ago in Reader’s Digest there was a story of a woman who was told by her doctors that because of a condition she had that she must have an abortion. She however refused. As the baby grew he pused up against her ribs which caused her condition to improve to the point of saving her life.

Jesus said we must loose are life in order to save it. Living is not our goal but to live a holy life. That cannot be achieved by killing another. How can a true mother wish her own life over that of her child.

To the contrary, many many posters here have encouraged me toward that conclusion, and are now the facts upon which I can base it.

 

[Sister_Amy]

Well in order to be Muslim one has to follow Islam. Whether they’re called Shi’a or Sunni, they’re Muslim. Or rather, they are Muslim, and some of them recognize themselves as “Shi’a.”

Ahmadiyya don’t actually follow Islam. Neither do Druze.

 

[adrift]

To the contrary, many many posters here have encouraged me toward that conclusion, and are now the facts upon which I can base it.

You are not looking at facts but a preconceived opinion

So the best parent is a dead one?

No one stated this nor implied it. It is what you want to beleive

I’m afraid the response, however, seems to dodge the question. It seems to suggest rather, that in the case that a woman cannot survive birth, she is supposed to relinquish her own life in order to not “kill” the baby. If she chooses to live–to take care of children she already has, perhaps–then is she a killer? The Church would have her be dead, or a murderer?

It didn’t dodge the question. It just wasn’t what you expected.

Never and in no case has the Church taught that the life of the child must be preferred to that of the mother.

How did this suggest to you that she should relinguish her life.

It is erroneous to put the question with this alternative: either the life of the child or that of the mother. No, neither the life of the mother nor that of the child can be subjected to an act of direct suppression. In the one case as in the other, there can be but one obligation: to make every effort to save the lives of both, of the mother and of the child.

The Church would have her be dead, or a murderer? No the Church would have both live. BTW facts are facts if you unjustly kill you are a murderer. In todays world there is no longer such a choice.

It is one of the finest and most noble aspirations of the medical profession to search continually for new means of ensuring the life of both mother and child. But if, notwithstanding all the progress of science, there still remain, and will remain in the future, cases in which one must reckon with the death of the mother, when the mother wills to bring to birth the life that is within her and not destroy it in violation of the command of God - Thou shalt not kill - nothing else remains for the man, who will make every effort till the very last moment to help and save, but to bow respectfully before the laws of nature and the dispositions of divine Providence."

As I have already said, such cases do not exist. However, abortion does kill more than the child in the womb. It sometimes kills the woman.

Rates of death of women who have an abortion:
One out of every 6,000 women who have an abortion after 21 weeks gestation die.
One out of every 166,000 abortions ends in death.
Just under one out of every 100 abortions has a serious complication
[Source: AGI, 1998. Note: These figures may be low due to under-reporting of deaths due to abortions.]

 

[mark_a]

I see.

What I was going to get around to was the increasingly diverse view of abortion and contraception among Muslims. It sounds very familiar, doesn’t it?

 

[mark_a]

It doesn’t make sense in English. They’re trying to translate Arabic terms from the Qur’an used to describe the stages of fetal development. And the translation is just wacky.

Ok. Thanks.