When or is the death penalty alright?

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d97c said:
prodeathpenalty.com/

This is an excellent site on the death penalty. It has plenty of facts and it will show why the death penalty is necessary.
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To what end? Necessary for what and whom. The death penalty has never stopped anyone from murder.

Answer the above questions intelligently and you will find that the death penalty is not a necessity.
 
Verbum_Caro said:
Joe, could you explain what you mean?

thanks,
VC
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There are a number of reasons voiced for and against the death penalty. One of the reasons believed for the death penalty is it’s ability to strike fear into people who consider pre-meditated murder in the commission of a crime or otherwise. Some people think because if there is a law that states, if you take a life, your will be taken is some kind of deterrrant and people will be frightened away from thou shall not kill? It does not and never has.
 
CWBetts said:
All I will concede is your refusal to accept the teachings of the Church. Capital punishment os not needed in the United States.
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This is your opinion, it is not what the Church actually says.
 
joe_clark said:
There are a number of reasons voiced for and against the death penalty. One of the reasons believed for the death penalty is it’s ability to strike fear into people who consider pre-meditated murder in the commission of a crime or otherwise. Some people think because if there is a law that states, if you take a life, your will be taken is some kind of deterrrant and people will be frightened away from thou shall not kill? It does not and never has.
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From the page : prodeathpenalty.com/deterrence.htm
 
joe_clark said:
There are a number of reasons voiced for and against the death penalty. One of the reasons believed for the death penalty is it’s ability to strike fear into people who consider pre-meditated murder in the commission of a crime or otherwise. Some people think because if there is a law that states, if you take a life, your will be taken is some kind of deterrrant and people will be frightened away from thou shall not kill? It does not and never has.
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Thanks for explaining what you meant Joe. Do you think any punishment acts as a deterrent to murder, or do you think all deterrents are equally ineffectual when it comes to murder?

Thanks,
VC
 
Verbum_Caro said:
Thanks for explaining what you meant Joe. Do you think any punishment acts as a deterrent to murder, or do you think all deterrents are equally ineffectual when it comes to murder?

Thanks,
VC
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Just the deathy penalty. It’s one murder for another murder. Eye for an eye makes all blind.
 
joe_clark said:
There are a number of reasons voiced for and against the death penalty. One of the reasons believed for the death penalty is it’s ability to strike fear into people who consider pre-meditated murder in the commission of a crime or otherwise. Some people think because if there is a law that states, if you take a life, your will be taken is some kind of deterrrant and people will be frightened away from thou shall not kill? It does not and never has.
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The prison system itself also does a bad job of deterrence. The recidivism rate in the U.S. is over 60% from what I hear.
 
fish90 said:
The prison system itself also does a bad job of deterrence. The recidivism rate in the U.S. is over 60% from what I hear.
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I quess we can’t solve all of the world problems, but we have invested more money in building prisons than people. Yes it’s a problem, but I’m sure we can find a way to correct that. 🙂
 
joe_clark said:
Just the deathy penalty. It’s one murder for another murder. Eye for an eye makes all blind.
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Ok Joe. Just trying to understand your position. So other punishments such as life in prison, or X numbers in prison, if you commit murder acts as a deterrent to the would-be murder but the death penalty does not act a deterrent to the would-be murderer.

What do you think explains this in your view? On the face of it it looks improbable, wouldn’t you agree?

VC
 
Verbum_Caro said:
Ok Joe. Just trying to understand your position. So other punishments such as life in prison, or X numbers in prison, if you commit murder acts as a deterrent to the would-be murder but the death penalty does not act a deterrent to the would-be murderer.

What do you think explains this in your view? On the face of it it looks improbable, wouldn’t you agree?

VC
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You are mixing and matching a little. I am sticking to the post title: When or is the death penalty alright? It is not.

Punishments such as life in prison for murder instead of the death penalty is putting value on a life. It keeps us from becoming the monsters we are trying to rid ourselves of. A life sentence for pre-meditated murder is acceptable because it takes the person out of society where there is no second chance for them to do it again. There is punishment, but I have yet to see a deterrant for murder. Crimes are graded and and there is no one size fits all.
 
Thanks Joe.

I was just trying to understand why you think the death penalty wouldn’t deter a murderer but life imprisonment would. It seems odd at first glance, and I was hoping you could explain why you think this would be.

VC
 
Portrait said:
Ender is not being disengenuously selective as regards the Church Catechism; he is merely drawing our attention to the fact that para. 2267 is at variance with para. 2260 in so far as the whole of the Church’s history lies behind the latter but not the former.
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If that means the Catechism contradicts itself, I disagree. Otherwise, ok. Thanks.
 
Ender said:
And what of 2260? Do you accept it? And if not, are you not picking and choosing what parts of the Catechism to accept? As I have said before, I see no way to simultaneously accept 2260, 2266 and 2267 so don’t accuse me of something that is in fact unavoidable and that we all must do, yourself included.

Ender
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I accept everything in the Catechism.
 
CWBetts said:
Again the vindictive crowd uses a nearly unique exception to represent the norm. Pitiful.
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First, you might want to go back and read again what I said.

I am personally against the death penalty, for several reasons. One, I don’t trust prosecutors. Two, I don’t trust jurors. Three, even assuming we can get past one and two, in too many circumstances it is altogether too easy to convict the wrong person. Four, the cost of executing is far, far greater than the cost of warehousing. Five, it has not been shown to be an effective dtereeant to other criminals.

And as I pointed out, the comments in the Catechism have been roundly and thoroughly proven not to be true re: the ability to protect society from some killer.

Society also includes othe prisoners. It also includes prison guards - and the paper makes little or no mention of the prison guards who are killed by prisoners.

Are juries vindictive? Or are they so convinced, by the extreme brutality exhibited by some murderers, that society cannot be safe from such predators?

I have practical experience. I did 6 years of crminial defense work. The people who scared me the worst were not the two murderers I represented; they were a couple of rapists I represented.

Until someone gets to really meet and watch somone who is completely amoral, they have no clue about which they speak.
 
d97c said:
Capital punishment was legal in Vatican City until 1969 .

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_in_Vatican_City

Plenty of Catholic teachers were supportive of the right of the state to use the death penalty. Since it is a matter of prudential judgment…I still do support it !
When they catch bin Laden…I’ll pull the switch !!!
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What it must feel like to want to pull the switch–Juror #8, 12 Angry Men

The desire to pull the switch has crossed the line from the prudential judgment of the state to a personal vendetta. I also believe that, particularly in the case of terrorists, execution turns them into martyrs, which is exceedingly unwise.
 
diggerdomer said:
I accept everything in the Catechism.
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If this is so then on what basis do you object to capital punishment since 2260 quotes Gen 9:6 - which is where God mandates the execution of murderers - and adds that this command is true for all time?

Ender
 
Ender said:
If this is so then on what basis do you object to capital punishment since 2260 quotes Gen 9:6 - which is where God mandates the execution of murderers - and adds that this command is true for all time?

Ender
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Gen 9:6 is just as much an excuse for vigilantism as it is a mandate for state sanctioned capital punishment.
 
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