When or is the death penalty alright?

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Is it not accepted in our judicial system that many guilty people will go free as a result of due process of law? We accept this because we think it is better for a guilty person to go free than for an innocent person to be wrongly convicted.

All this does is prove my point. The judicial system does not free guilty convicts because “we think it is better for a guilty person to go free than for an innocent person to be wrongly convicted,” they do it because, again, we never really know whether someone is guilty or not. Since guilty people sometimes go free, I guess the system is completely useless and we should therefore get rid of it. Right?

I believe you are wrong about this. Many people are let go because of improper search and seizure (for instance) even when what was seized is proof of their guilt. The protection of the innocent through our constitutional rights are paramount,

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Even though you previously said you could not support our current flawed system, it sounds like now you are,

Based on what? This is just another bogus ad hominem attack.

**By your following comment in # 512 “You then make it seem as though that, by rarely executing an innocent person, the state is somehow not protecting the innocent.”
**
 
momor said:
Quote:
Even though you previously said you could not support our current flawed system, it sounds like now you are,

Based on what? This is just another bogus ad hominem attack.

**By your following comment in # 512 “You then make it seem as though that, by rarely executing an innocent person, the state is somehow not protecting the innocent.”
**
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That was in reference to the death penalty in general. It’s far different from the corrupt government today executing a person because of his color as opposed to executing an innocent person by accident.
 
Shin said:
We should do our best to have a good system that goes the extra mile to ensure the death penalty is applied only to those who are truly guilty of their crimes. Definitely! 🙂

However, AFAIK know, at least in the U.S. justice system, the scrutiny generally actually goes too far, and is an unjust waste exploring beyond what is reasonable. This because politicians who are against the death penalty, in and of itself, have tried to make it unworkable by adding on useless legislation in its regard.

This sort of subversion of the law is itself immoral.

We should go the extra mile. We should do what is just to determine guilt or innocence. We should not go beyond reason, and pursue that which is frivilous, and go through mandatory endless litigation. 😃
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At the same time, governors who absolutely refuse to show mercy in the face of genuine reform should also be dealt with. If a prisoner is shown to have had a true change of heart, and has become an asset to the prison, should not their life be spared?
 
Shin said:
We should do our best to have a good system that goes the extra mile to ensure the death penalty is applied only to those who are truly guilty of their crimes. Definitely! 🙂

Glad to hear you say it!
Now, do you think we have that system?
Or has it been shown to be too flawed to trust it?
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CWBetts said:
At the same time, governors who absolutely refuse to show mercy in the face of genuine reform should also be dealt with. If a prisoner is shown to have had a true change of heart, and has become an asset to the prison, should not their life be spared?
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Even if it were possible to know without doubt if a person were truly contrite for his sin, I would still argue that he should be given the penalty. Justice must still be fulfilled, and the murderer must do his part by accepting his punishment. If he is actually sorry for his crime, he will be glad to forfeit his life in order to make reparation.

When the good thief manifested his contrition, Christ did not let him live. Rather, he promised him eternal life and let him finish his punishment. Remember the scene in The Passion where he told the other thief that “they deserve their punishment.” If it were really just to do what you say, Christ, who is perfect justice, would have somehow let him free. But he didn’t. He (and the thief) knew that he needed to repair the damage in justice.
 
Originally Posted by momor
Even though you previously said you could not support our current flawed system, it sounds like now you are,

Based on what? This is just another bogus ad hominem attack.

By your following comment in # 512 “You then make it seem as though that, by rarely executing an innocent person, the state is somehow not protecting the innocent.”

That was in reference to the death penalty in general. It’s far different from the corrupt government today executing a person because of his color as opposed to executing an innocent person by accident.

An apology for the “bogus ad hominem attack” would have been nice.
 
momor said:
Originally Posted by momor
Even though you previously said you could not support our current flawed system, it sounds like now you are,

Based on what? This is just another bogus ad hominem attack.

By your following comment in # 512 “You then make it seem as though that, by rarely executing an innocent person, the state is somehow not protecting the innocent.”

That was in reference to the death penalty in general. It’s far different from the corrupt government today executing a person because of his color as opposed to executing an innocent person by accident.

An apology for the “bogus ad hominem attack” would have been nice.
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I’m sorry, I’m very melancholic/choleric and I always tend to be sharp with people. One of my many weaknesses I need to overcome…🙂
 
iluvburpees said:
Even if it were possible to know without doubt if a person were truly contrite for his sin, I would still argue that he should be given the penalty. Justice must still be fulfilled, and the murderer must do his part by accepting his punishment. If he is actually sorry for his crime, he will be glad to forfeit his life in order to make reparation.

When the good thief manifested his contrition, Christ did not let him live. Rather, he promised him eternal life and let him finish his punishment. Remember the scene in The Passion where he told the other thief that “they deserve their punishment.” If it were really just to do what you say, Christ, who is perfect justice, would have somehow let him free. But he didn’t. He (and the thief) knew that he needed to repair the damage in justice.
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Let you among you who are without sin cast the first stone.
 
I am sorry that I do not have time to read all of the posts.

I asked the question about inverting the question.

I was thinking of executing a criminal in the act of murdering. It is captial punishment, at least in a sense. A public authority executes a criminal.

Furthermore, what about a national leader who can still have people murdered while he or she is in prison? There was one a few years ago. I do not recall any person saying he should not be executed. There may have been some against his execution, but I cannot recall the facts for sure.

Moreover, what about a crime boss who is so rich and powerful that the can have people murdered while they are in prison?

Also, and this is a major principle, what about legal abortion?

It is my understanding that the vast majority of people, from liberal to conservative, all want the same things–love, peace, safety, and happiness. There are many different kinds of liberal and conservatives. There are hundreds of positions on each one of the above issues. Most of us want peace, safety, love and happiness in these issues. We see the solutions differently, but we all want the same goals. Most of us want love, peace, safety and happiness.

There are some people that want to be mean or hateful, but most of the liberals and conservatives want the same goals. Most of us are not mean, hateful and filled with anger.

Each case must be judged individually in order to get the goals of love, joy, peace, safety, and happiness. The bridge that brings all the different kinds liberals and all of the different kinds of conservatives together is love, peace, safety and happiness. These goals and the individual judgment of each case. However, this is a superhuman tasks that is going to fail some of the time and be successful some of the time. Who knows the percentages? I do not.
 
Here’s the rest of the Arkansas artice-------------------------

Wise’s three children - ages 4, 6, and 8 - were walking with him when the men approached them. One of the men pulled a gun, demanded money and then shot Wise, police said.

The men then fled toward the nearby Windemere Hills housing projects, Camper said.

Wise’s wife, Cindy, also a major in the Salvation Army, was inside the community center during the shooting and called police, Camper said.

“It’s such a traumatic experience for those kids,” Camper said. “Christmas will never be the same for them.”

Police received the call at 4:17 p.m. On arriving, officers found Wise lying near the back door of the community center, said Sgt. Terry Kuykendall, spokesman for the North Little Rock Police Department.

Kuykendall declined to say whether the two men made off with any money.

Investigators believe Wise was returning to the community center after taking two bell ringers home, Kuykendall said.

Wise’s body was taken to the state Crime Laboratory in Little Rock where an autopsy will be performed, Camper said.

Wise had served in the Salvation Army for 16 years and had spent the past few years working to help those in need in the neighborhood where he was shot, Kuykendall said. Wise headed the Salvation Army’s divisions in North Little Rock, Maumelle and Sherwood, Kuykendall said.

Salvation Army officials were working with police in the investigation, said Kathy Barbeire, a spokesman for the Salvation Army Central Arkansas Area Command. She said the organization would not be releasing a statement Thursday evening.

Police asked that anyone with information about the shooting contact them at 758-1234.

The North Little Rock Salvation Army center provides youth programs, weekly church services and Sunday School and a food pantry, among other services.

The Salvation Army is an international evangelical movement, according to a statement posted on its Web site.

Its mission is to “preach the gospel of Jesus Christ and to meet human needs in His name without discrimination
 
You scare me. It is one thing to support capital punishment. It is quite another to have such a vengeful spirit to desire to pull the switch yourself. I don’t know any executioners personally, but i doubt that any relish their work. This is a topic I discuss frequently with my priest, who used to serve as a prison chaplain at a federal penitentiary. I will ask him.
 
What’s really scarey is that people who show no compassion for victims of murderers or families of murderers may be perpetrators themselves. If you read the link I posted, you go talk to the family-- the 3 children and wife who had to watch their dad be shot on Christmas. Feel their pain for a change. I’m sick of bleeding hearts who cry for the murderer. What about the innocent? You’d bet Id vote for the chair for these 2 thugs…and so would most juries who sit on a capital jury in this kind of case…given the finding of guilty. You obviously never had a family member attacked or murdered. You look to the state to exact justice so you wont have to. Glad its that way.
 
d97c said:
What’s really scarey is that people who show no compassion for victims of murderers or families of murderers may be perpetrators themselves. If you read the link I posted, you go talk to the family-- the 3 children and wife who had to watch their dad be shot on Christmas. Feel their pain for a change. I’m sick of bleeding hearts who cry for the murderer. What about the innocent? You’d bet Id vote for the chair for these 2 thugs…and so would most juries who sit on a capital jury in this kind of case…given the finding of guilty. You obviously never had a family member attacked or murdered. You look to the state to exact justice so you wont have to. Glad its that way.
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Killing will not bring back the victim, nor will it bring healing to the family. In order for healing to come from the family, they must forgive. Do not let yourself be blinded by rage and hate.
 
CWBetts said:
Killing will not bring back the victim, nor will it bring healing to the family. In order for healing to come from the family, they must forgive. Do not let yourself be blinded by rage and hate.
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Please do not forget about the need for justice and in turn the benefit of society. Prison would be equally effective in the situation you stated.
 
fish90 said:
Please do not forget about the need for justice and in turn the benefit of society. Prison would be equally effective in the situation you stated.
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I am not saying that they should be set free. I am saying that killing them does no good. Through prison ministry, they would still have a chance at redemption. No one is beyond redemption.
 
diggerdomer said:
Can you share more about where the Catholic Church teaches this?
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CCC 2266:* “the primary scope of the penalty is to redress the disorder caused by the offense.”*

“Redress the disorder” is a phrase that means retribution, as Cardinal Dulles makes clear in his statement that:* “* *Punishment is held to have a variety of ends that may conveniently be reduced to the following four: rehabilitation, defense against the criminal, deterrence, and retribution.”

*Aquinas explains the relationship between punishment and justice: “*the act of sin makes man deserving of punishment, in so far as he transgresses the order of Divine justice, to which he cannot return except he pay some sort of penal compensation, which restores him to the equality of justice”

*The argument that we should not execute criminals because we might inadvertently execute an innocent person is only half of the question; the other half is how many innocent people will die if we don’t? In neither case is the answer zero. In fact, if the decision is to be made solely on the number of innocents killed then clearly it is better to execute more rather than fewer killers because many more people wrongfully die from killers released back to the streets than could possibly die from mistakenly executing the innocent.

Ender
 
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