When or is the death penalty alright?

[d97c]

To portarica
You cannot prove that there have been a “number of innocents who have been murdered by the states.” You cannot prove that. If you really care about your words, (I’m skeptical)you can prove neither the numbers nor the “murder.”
First …look up the definition of murder…then get back with us.

 

[CWBetts]

To portarica
You cannot prove that there have been a “number of innocents who have been murdered by the states.” You cannot prove that. If you really care about your words, (I’m skeptical)you can prove neither the numbers nor the “murder.”
First …look up the definition of murder…then get back with us.

It seems you have forgotten to take your humility pills. Is it possible for you to defend your position without being so argumentative and arrogant?

 

[portarica]

To portarica
You cannot prove that there have been a “number of innocents who have been murdered by the states.” You cannot prove that. If you really care about your words, (I’m skeptical)you can prove neither the numbers nor the “murder.”
First …look up the definition of murder…then get back with us.

Murder:kill intentionally and with premeditation

Perhaps you meant criminal homicide.

As to innocents being killed, if you are unaware of that fact you need to do some reading.

Do you guys think that asking for evidence of common knowledge makes for a strong argument.

There is no contention in this country by even the most backward states (like TX) that innocents have not been executed.

Peace

 

[portarica]

Port:"But in reality what is death? If somebody committed suicide because of the financial collapse brought about by unscrupulous wall street traders is that any worse than a death at the hands of a “thug”?

Lyth: Yes; self-murder brought about by grief and short-sightedness is tragic, but a *thug *who wantonly kills someone in the course of a robbery or a rape or just for kicks is even worse. At least the suicide only killed himself; the thug took the life of someone else.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

You miss the point,and the causation. It is the actions of wall street that precipitated the suicide in the example, the result to society and the families involved is as horrific as if the person was stabbed to death.

You have fallen prey to the secular concept of relativism, you fail to distinguish the value that Jesus ascribed to all peoples and instead use a relative valuation concept, sort of like the insurance companies do when paying off after the death in a car accident.

Peace

 

[d97c]

Nope…will not take the bait------

Port----> I have read more than you have ever thought about reading. There have been people on death row who have been exonerated and freed…but I challenge you to present me any credible articles from any source that show that IN FACT people have been executed who were innocent. YOU made the accusation. You can’t prove it.

and stop using the term “murder” when discussing the death penalty. It really is an insult to those of us who know what the term “murder” means.:newidea:

 

[Holly3278]

The death penalty is only morally justifiable in a very few situations. This is described in the Catechism.

 

[d97c]

…and those of us who believe the death penalty is justified and needed have (for many pages here) shown that we can and do accept the words of Pope Benedict XVI who said:

1. Not all moral issues have the same moral weight as abortion and euthanasia. For example, if a Catholic were to be at odds with the Holy Father on the application of capital punishment or on the decision to wage war, he would not for that reason be considered unworthy to present himself to receive Holy Communion. While the Church exhorts civil authorities to seek peace, not war, and to exercise discretion and mercy in imposing punishment on criminals, it may still be permissible to take up arms to repel an aggressor or to have recourse to capital punishment. There may be a legitimate diversity of opinion even among Catholics about waging war and applying the death penalty, but not however with regard to abortion and euthanasia…

Here’s the link Holly
priestsforlife.org/magisterium/bishops/04-07ratzingerommunion.htm

So…it is NOT morally unjustifiable, because if it were, the Pope wouldnt have said that we can disagree on the APPLICATION of the death penalty or vote for those people who do. There can be no “legitimate diversity of opinion” on an action that, as you suggested, is “immoral.”

 

[Ender]

portarica:

Murder:kill intentionally and with premeditation

This is incorrect. The fact that the killing was done intentionally does not make it murder; it is murder when it is unlawful (in a lawful State).

"But in reality what is death? If somebody committed suicide because of the financial collapse brought about by unscrupulous wall street traders is that any worse than a death at the hands of a “thug”?

Murder is worse than suicide because every crime has a twofold effect: on the individuals involved and on society. Murder is more harmful to society than is suicide. If you dispute this then ask yourself where you would feel safer: living in a city with a high suicide rate or in a city with a high murder rate?

You miss the point,and the causation. It is the actions of wall street that precipitated the suicide in the example, the result to society and the families involved is as horrific as if the person was stabbed to death.

I think the harm to the families may be equal in either case but I don’t see that society is harmed nearly as much by the suicide. In any event there is surely no way to punish the person who has killed himself; his punishment is complete while the State still has the obligation to punish the murderer.

Ender

 

[Eric_Hilbert]

**I’m closing this thread as it is almost at 1000 posts and is becoming too contentious. **