When Other People's Children are in Your Home

[pensmama87]

…how do you handle impoliteness/rudeness?

Background: I babysit two boys (5 and 3) a couple days a week. They are pretty typical kids and they get along well with my two boys (3 and 1). Unfortunately, they have a couple bad habits that I don’t tolerate in my own kids (at a developmentally appropriate level.) The big ones are backtalk and whining, but there’s also a lot of ordering me around instead of asking politely. Most of this comes from the 5yo, who I feel is old enough to know better. The 3yo is a little more understandable, especially since he is not incredibly verbal so it can be more difficult for him to express himself.

These are things I have never tolerated from my children, so as soon as they are old enough I began working with them on appropriate manners. They don’t know any differently. With the kids I sit, I’ve seen enough of the interaction with the parents to know that this is not something that’s emphasized at their home (their mom and dad are very nice people, they just seem overwhelmed). So I don’t want to undermine their parents, but I’m also not willing to put up with it. Part of me is just counting down the days until the 5yo goes to kindergarten because then I will only be having him rarely, and he has the bigger issues (and my 3yo has unfortunately been imitating him). They’ve also discussed having me babysit any future children they have, and in that case I feel like there’s a bit of a fresh start (if I’m the babysitter they start with, rather than having had babysitters and then a rotation of daycare providers.)

For especially flagrant violations I do time-out, and I have the OK to use time-out as discipline from the parents. But what else can I do? I’m sure this comes up when kids have their friends over, too. Nothing is so bad that I would refuse to continue babysitting (I’ve done that for another family), but it’s still an uncomfortable situation.

Thoughts?

 

[BettyBoop416]

…how do you handle impoliteness/rudeness?..Thoughts?

If it was me, I’d speak to the parents about it. It sounds as if you have more experience with children than they do, so they might appreciate hearing your concerns and advice. What I would NOT do is tolerate a mouthy, disrespectful kid. If they don’t think it’s important enough to address, I’d invite them to seek childcare services elsewhere. It’s been my experience that reliable, dependable babysitters are golden. You’d have much less trouble finding new kids to care for than they would finding a new babysitter.

 

[Allegra]

I teach elementary aged children and I usually find that as soon as they figure out that they will get further with you and more of what they want if they speak respectfully, they do. Unless it’s something really extreme like directly insulting me, I usually ignore it and don’t give them whatever it is they want. For a more borderline infranction, I might give a warning like, “You want to try that again?” or “I beg your pardon?” or “I’m sorry. Are you new?” Giving them a chance to self correct and express themselves correctly is better then a punishment, in my opinion.

 

[St_Francis]

I used the words, “In this house…” So, in my house, everyone must ask nicely. Etc.

I’d talk with the parents, but also set rules for your own house The parents may be happy for the support and help in teaching this to their children

 

[WingsOfEagles]

When one of them makes demands, I might say “what’s the magic word?”. I don’t think his parents would be upset about you teaching him please and thank-you.

 

[powerofk]

Definitely talk to their parents first. Ask them if they have a problem with you enforcing your rules with their children when they are in your house. If they do, simply say, “I’m sorry, then. I can no longer babysit your children.” Seriously - there are many parents who will not allow any other adult to be an authority figure to their children. And they tell that to their children, too - to not listen to anyone but “mommy and daddy”.

Of course, if they have no problem with you enforcing your rules, simply treat their children as if they were your own. The kids’ll get the idea - or at least, develop 2 sets of rules (one for home, and one for the babysitter).

 

[pianistclare]

I teach elementary aged children and I usually find that as soon as they figure out that they will get further with you and more of what they want if they speak respectfully, they do. Unless it’s something really extreme like directly insulting me, I usually ignore it and don’t give them whatever it is they want. For a more borderline infranction, I might give a warning like, “You want to try that again?” or “I beg your pardon?” or “I’m sorry. Are you new?” Giving them a chance to self correct and express themselves correctly is better then a punishment, in my opinion.

This^^^^^

I don’t engage in conversation with anyone, no matter the age, who can’t express themselves appropriately. If they want something bad enough, they get the idea. And, it has the added bonus of reinforcing what you have already in place with your own children, when they see that it’s not just YOU that has these standards. These are things that serve a child well.

 

[EasterJoy]

I used the words, “In this house…” So, in my house, everyone must ask nicely. Etc.

I’d talk with the parents, but also set rules for your own house The parents may be happy for the support and help in teaching this to their children

I think the “in this house method” alone is sufficient. After all, this will be true of essentially anywhere that they are more “student” than “guest.” Schools do not consult with parents about what their rules are, nor do they imply that their rules are the Best Rules for the Whole Universe. They simply let the kids know what the school rules are, and that is that. If the parents have questions, the school explains them. The rules are not up for negotiation.

Our children grew up knowing that there were things Mom allowed and required, things Dad allowed and required, and things Granny allowed and required. All the adults defended the right of the other adults to have their own rules. There was never any confusion.

If you were a nanny in their house, this would be different. If the parent is there at your house, make corrections that have to be made with a very clear “what is the house rule?” approach. If anywhere else, let the parents make all corrections except with regards to the treatment of your children, who are too young to enforce their own personal boundaries.

 

[Xantippe]

I think the “in this house method” alone is sufficient. After all, this will be true of essentially anywhere that they are more “student” than “guest.” Schools do not consult with parents about what their rules are, nor do they imply that their rules are the Best Rules for the Whole Universe. They simply let the kids know what the school rules are, and that is that. If the parents have questions, the school explains them. The rules are not up for negotiation.

Our children grew up knowing that there were things Mom allowed and required, things Dad allowed and required, and things Granny allowed and required. All the adults defended the right of the other adults to have their own rules. There was never any confusion.

If you were a nanny in their house, this would be different. If the parent is there at your house, make corrections that have to be made with a very clear “what is the house rule?” approach. If anywhere else, let the parents make all corrections except with regards to the treatment of your children, who are too young to enforce their own personal boundaries.

Yes.

It doesn’t need to be a big deal. “At our house, we say please!” (You might want to go lightly on this in front of the mom, though.)

Good luck!

 

[pensmama87]

Thanks all!

I do feel like I’ve tried several of these. I use the “In my house” language. I just get really frustrated because I feel like I’m finally starting to make some headway, then they go home (I never have them more than 2 days in a row) and when they are back it’s like I’m starting all over again. It never really bugged me until my own son starting mimicking the rude behavior of the older child. (My husband, who is sometimes home when the other kids are here, told me the other day, “[Name] is in for a rude awakening when he goes to school if he thinks you’re mean.” :sad_yes

One thing I do is make sure to praise them when they do it right without my prompting.

Something specific I wonder is: do I work on all of the behaviors at once, or should I put more emphasis on one thing and then move on to the next? (e.g. table manners first because seriously, I see red when a child tells me “oh yuck, I don’t want that”, then something else that is still irritating, but bugs me less?) With my own kids usually these things have shown up one at a time. At the same time, I don’t want them to get the idea that something is OK just because I’m commenting on it less, and have the habits ingrained further.

 

[powerofk]

Thanks all!

I do feel like I’ve tried several of these. I use the “In my house” language. I just get really frustrated because I feel like I’m finally starting to make some headway, then they go home (I never have them more than 2 days in a row) and when they are back it’s like I’m starting all over again. It never really bugged me until my own son starting mimicking the rude behavior of the older child. (My husband, who is sometimes home when the other kids are here, told me the other day, “[Name] is in for a rude awakening when he goes to school if he thinks you’re mean.” :sad_yes

One thing I do is make sure to praise them when they do it right without my prompting.

Something specific I wonder is: do I work on all of the behaviors at once, or should I put more emphasis on one thing and then move on to the next? (e.g. table manners first because seriously, I see red when a child tells me “oh yuck, I don’t want that”, then something else that is still irritating, but bugs me less?) With my own kids usually these things have shown up one at a time. At the same time, I don’t want them to get the idea that something is OK just because I’m commenting on it less, and have the habits ingrained further.

As an educator of students with severe disabilities, I work with many kids that have bad behaviors. Some of them require actual plans that focus on their specific behaviors. We are always told to focus on one behavior at a time, starting with the most severe. In general, the most severe behaviors are those behaviors that pose a safety threat to the student himself/herself, followed by behaviors that pose safety threats to others. Behaviors that are severely disruptive are next, with behaviors that are simply annoying being the least of worries.

What you’re dealing with seems more to be children repeatedly forgetting your rules because they don’t have the same expectations at home. It could help if, when they come over to your house, you review your rules and expectations with them. Maybe you could try asking them to show what proper behavior looks like and doesn’t look like in your house. This puts the responsibility on them to remember. Right now, they’re relying on you to enforce the rules.

 

[Anglewannabe]

Maybe you could try asking them to show what proper behavior looks like and doesn’t look like in your house. This puts the responsibility on them to remember. .

I totally agree with this. Also I want to add that telling a kid to behave or telling them they are being impolite does not work if they do not know what behaving looks like.

At a time when the kids are not hungry, I would role play. I would tell the 5 year old to give me a plate (imaginary or an empty plate of course). of food that I don’t like. Then I would say, ‘hhmmm not my favourite but I guess I will eat it’. Then ask the kid to pretend he doesn’t like what he is being given and make him say the same thing. Do this a few times as a practice run. Then the next time he says ‘yuck’, say ‘hmm not my favourite but I guess I will eat it’ and make it clear he is to do the same

Also, when they boss you around, make them repeat after you a polite way of asking. Kids need examples of good behaviour

 

[EasterJoy]

Thanks all!

I do feel like I’ve tried several of these. I use the “In my house” language. I just get really frustrated because I feel like I’m finally starting to make some headway, then they go home (I never have them more than 2 days in a row) and when they are back it’s like I’m starting all over again. It never really bugged me until my own son starting mimicking the rude behavior of the older child. (My husband, who is sometimes home when the other kids are here, told me the other day, “[Name] is in for a rude awakening when he goes to school if he thinks you’re mean.” :sad_yes

One thing I do is make sure to praise them when they do it right without my prompting.

Something specific I wonder is: do I work on all of the behaviors at once, or should I put more emphasis on one thing and then move on to the next? (e.g. table manners first because seriously, I see red when a child tells me “oh yuck, I don’t want that”, then something else that is still irritating, but bugs me less?) With my own kids usually these things have shown up one at a time. At the same time, I don’t want them to get the idea that something is OK just because I’m commenting on it less, and have the habits ingrained further.

The one-step-back-after-the-weekend problem is something that teachers and parents who share custody do run into a lot, unfortunately. Just expect the first day back to require some reviewing.

If you think you’ve been too subtle, you might say, “You know, I don’t think I’ve been very clear with you about our house rules, which has to leave you guessing sometimes. I’m going to start letting you know what those are a bit more clearly. There are quite a lot of little rules, but they aren’t hard and I know you can do it. It will take a little time, but you’ll be on top of it in no time. The good thing is that lots of schools have rules that are a lot like ours, so learning these little rules now will put you ahead of some of the other kids when you start school.”

The other way is the children’s programming way, which is to have a puppet tea party in which one puppet knows the house rules and the other one doesn’t, but learns how to do it as the party goes on. The “house” puppets can do the explaining to the “new” puppet, or your kids and the babysat kids can guess which is the “house way,” which is more fun for small children than a lecture from you.

 

[pensmama87]

Well, we made it through lunch without me wanting to lose mine, so there’s a start.

I mentioned a few times this morning how we were going to practice good table manners at lunch today. While I was making lunch, I went over the rules I’ve decided to focus on. These are the behaviors I really, really hate:

1. No saying that food is “yucky” or complaining about what we’re having that day.
2. No spitting out food, putting it in hair or on other kids, or throwing it on the floor.
3. No talking or chewing with mouth open.

I explained (briefly) that it could hurt feelings when we say mean things about food. We don’t have to like everything, but we do have to try everything (I give teeny, tiny portions of food and they have to eat what they have on their plates before they are allowed to have more.) I also said that it was hard to understand each other if mouths were full, and that it didn’t look good to look at half-chewed food.

I also utilized a bit of bribery - the promise of zucchini bread for snack (shhh, I would have given it to them anyway ). I told them if they could show me good manners, it meant that they were big enough to enjoy more kinds of yummy food at snacktime. It won’t happen every day, but I figure when I get more strict about something I might as well offer a positive if they comply before it becomes routine.

I had to do a few reminders about #3 but other than that we were good!

I need to remind myself too that they have come a long way since they started coming here a few months ago. They refuse to nap at home, and at daycare, but I get them to nap everyday (that one was absolutely a non-negotiable.) and they both nap over 2 hours. When they ask for something/tell me something rudely, they at least know what I’m talking about when I say, “Nope, that’s not how we ask.” So, progress is being made. It just feels so slooooooow…

 

[Anglewannabe]

While I was making lunch, I went over the rules I’ve decided to focus on.

With all due respect, that is part of the problem. When kids are hungry, they don’t listen. The time to go over the rules is 2 hours before lunch. While you are making lunch is only suppose to be revision.

You don’t want for someone to have a heart attack to go over CPR. You do it ahead of time

 

[pensmama87]

With all due respect, that is part of the problem. When kids are hungry, they don’t listen. The time to go over the rules is 2 hours before lunch. While you are making lunch is only suppose to be revision.

You don’t want for someone to have a heart attack to go over CPR. You do it ahead of time

Um, whoa.

Maybe I should clarify.

They know these rules and expectations. I reminded them as I was making lunch.

This seems really strongly worded as a response to a post where I said what I did worked.

 

[powerofk]

Well, we made it through lunch without me wanting to lose mine, so there’s a start.

I mentioned a few times this morning how we were going to practice good table manners at lunch today. While I was making lunch, I went over the rules I’ve decided to focus on. These are the behaviors I really, really hate:

1. No saying that food is “yucky” or complaining about what we’re having that day.
2. No spitting out food, putting it in hair or on other kids, or throwing it on the floor.
3. No talking or chewing with mouth open.

I explained (briefly) that it could hurt feelings when we say mean things about food. We don’t have to like everything, but we do have to try everything (I give teeny, tiny portions of food and they have to eat what they have on their plates before they are allowed to have more.) I also said that it was hard to understand each other if mouths were full, and that it didn’t look good to look at half-chewed food.

I also utilized a bit of bribery - the promise of zucchini bread for snack (shhh, I would have given it to them anyway ). I told them if they could show me good manners, it meant that they were big enough to enjoy more kinds of yummy food at snacktime. It won’t happen every day, but I figure when I get more strict about something I might as well offer a positive if they comply before it becomes routine.

I had to do a few reminders about #3 but other than that we were good!

I need to remind myself too that they have come a long way since they started coming here a few months ago. They refuse to nap at home, and at daycare, but I get them to nap everyday (that one was absolutely a non-negotiable.) and they both nap over 2 hours. When they ask for something/tell me something rudely, they at least know what I’m talking about when I say, “Nope, that’s not how we ask.” So, progress is being made. It just feels so slooooooow…

And progress will be slow. In fact, usually, behaviors get worse before they get better - as an attempt to “test” the resolve of the person trying to introduce a behavioral change. And try to stay positive. Not so much in terms of bribery… but because the number 1 reason why kids act out is for attention (and “negative” attention is better than no attention). If you acknowledge their desired behaviors (or even the attempt at a desired behavior) in a positive manner, they’ll get what they really want. This does not mean that you should not correct them when their behavior is not what you would like - it means that you have to make sure you “catch them doing good” and authentically praise them. Make sure you tell them what they did that you liked.

 

[pensmama87]

And progress will be slow. In fact, usually, behaviors get worse before they get better - as an attempt to “test” the resolve of the person trying to introduce a behavioral change. And try to stay positive. Not so much in terms of bribery… but because the number 1 reason why kids act out is for attention (and “negative” attention is better than no attention). If you acknowledge their desired behaviors (or even the attempt at a desired behavior) in a positive manner, they’ll get what they really want. This does not mean that you should not correct them when their behavior is not what you would like - it means that you have to make sure you “catch them doing good” and authentically praise them. Make sure you tell them what they did that you liked.

Thanks!

I do feel like I am a competent parent (not great or even good, but competent ). It is just an extra challenge to me to manage discipline for young children who I am not in charge of 24/7 and have had not had since infancy. When I taught middle and high school, I dealt with discipline issues too, but adolescents have a much different level of understanding than preschoolers, and I only had them for 41-50 minutes at a time, always in the same kind of environment.

I feel like I have a reasonable handle on this - I’m not flailing around in desperation (if I was, I would just not sit these kids anymore). But it can be hard to figure out - OK, so these kids aren’t mine, but I have for several hours several times a week, and I still want them to behave the way I know they can when they’re here even though it’s not how they behave at home (which IMO is not ideal but it’s not my business to tell the parents how to parent their kids.)

ETA: This is also a place I tend to come for parenting/child-rearing advice because I don’t really have that great of an in-person support network for it. I don’t like the way a lot of my relatives did things, and the few friends I have with children have children younger than mine.

 

[EasterJoy]

With all due respect, that is part of the problem. When kids are hungry, they don’t listen. The time to go over the rules is 2 hours before lunch. While you are making lunch is only suppose to be revision.

You don’t want for someone to have a heart attack to go over CPR. You do it ahead of time

Teaching an adult to do CPR is a bit different than teaching a 3 year old to say “please” and “thank you.”

In the case of a five-year-old and a three-year-old, I think giving concrete expectations very concisely immediately before they are needed is the right way to go, provided you serenely accept that these expectations will have to be kindly but firmly repeated somewhere roughly between three and 3,000 times. More or less. It depends on both the child and the expectation. There are always surprises.

My kids are 15, very well-mannered in many ways, their coaches tell me they are exceptionally good at taking directions and putting them right into use, but they have yet to master the concept of seeing a ball–heavens, let alone actually touching a ball!!!–and yet not throwing it around. The only way to keep them from throwing a ball around is to hide the ball. Honestly, they do it and they don’t even know they are doing it.

You are right about the hunger issue, however. In order to set children up to succeed, you need to stay ahead of the hunger and rest game. They are going to get tired, they are going to get hungry, but once they are over-tired or hungry for too long, all bets are off. They become like the impossible people in the Snickers commercials, only worse!!

 

[Giggly_Giraffe]

Modeling & role play.

“Please & Thank-you’s” form by behavior. You may have to over exaggerate the please and thank you by saying them an extra 100 time (ONE HUNDrEED!!!) times. This means saying please after every request and saying thank-you when they succeed in the action. Even after yelling, “Stop” follow with please. The flooding of the words will then become vocabulary.

Role play/ Books offer reminders and new ways to think. Puppet shows, action figures, and such can be used to take all players out of the situation and give them a foundation of how to behave better.

Responsability. Speak out loud often that the older you get the more responsability. Older children are to service the younger kids. They are to protect (great word they love) the young ones. Protection includes physical and spiritual. Sure this creates ranks, but when the young see the older one taking this role, they step up to be like the big kid and sometimes competition to protect causes great progress.