When people say that their god accepts so-called "same-sex marriage" aren't they worshipping a different god?

[bzkoss236]

So someone can believe whatever they want, and as long as they name their belief “Jesus” it’s the same one? How about the Gnostics who believed that Jesus was only divine but not human and the Arians who believed the opposite that Jesus was only human but not divine? Could this be the same Jesus? Could the same Jesus be only human but not God and at the same time be only God but not human?

Literally, no. But since humans are flawed creatures, it is possible for there to be all of those understandings at the same time, but refer to the same Jesus and only one be right.

 

[foundmyfaith]

Not necessarily, but if they claim to be Christian, they certainly do not understand what the Bible teaches with regard to marriage and same sex relationships.

If they profess to be Christian, I am sure they are. They are just sinners, like me.

 

[livingwordunity]

If they profess to be Christian, I am sure they are. They are just sinners, like me.

“Agreement and union of minds is the necessary foundation of this perfect concord amongst men, from which concurrence of wills and similarity of action are the natural results. Wherefore, in His divine wisdom, He ordained in His Church Unity of Faith; a virtue which is the first of those bonds which unite man to God, and whence we receive the name of the faithful - ‘one Lord, one faith, one baptism’ (Eph. iv., 5). That is, as there is one Lord and one baptism, so should all Christians, without exception, have but one faith. And so the Apostle St. Paul not merely begs, but entreats and implores Christians to be all of the same mind, and to avoid difference of opinions: ‘I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you all speak the same thing, and that there be no schisms amongst you, and that you be perfect in the same mind and in the same judgment’ (I Cor. i., 10). Such passages certainly need no interpreter; they speak clearly enough for themselves. Besides, all who profess Christianity allow that there can be but one faith.” - Pope Leo XIII, Satis Cognitum

 

[bzkoss236]

Ah. It would be quite the challenge to prove to someone they’re worshiping a “false” God.
I can’t imagine how you’d identify that…and then, how you’d prove it…

Especially since their holy scriptures and their own catechisms and holy people are preaching the words and beliefs of their religion.

.

It would all come down to who can show the most solid evidence for their faith.

 

[JamesCaruso]

It would all come down to who can show the most solid evidence for their faith.

My sheep hear my voice: and I know them, and they follow me. John 10:27 I don’t think that means that the disciples of Christ know and follow every small detail. It does mean, however, that they follow to the best of their ability, and when they newly discover things that God wants them to do (conviction) they amend their lives and follow Our Lord even more closely. That is why we can say as Catholics that our separated brothers (Protestants) follow the same Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, even though we do not believe they have the fullness of truth. When God convicts them in their hearts, they will convert (those who continue to follow Christ), either in this life, or in the next (Purgatory). In the case of same sex sex, which this thread is about, I suppose it is possible for a person to be fooled by the propaganda that abounds, but I have serious questions as to whether anyone can commit serious sin, or approve of serious sin, and still be considered a follower of Christ. So much acceptance of same sex relationships is based either on a shallow, false practice of religion, or self delusion a person uses to allow him or herself to continue in their sin and to avoid the pangs of guilt. In the end, only God can judge hearts, but we can all know objectively what constitutes sin, even though for some an erroneous conscience may blind them to this reality.

 

[ThinkingSapien]

The person may hold a different god-concept. It’s not necessarily that God is telling people incompatible things, but that people are seeing the world with different god-concepts.

 

[JamesCaruso]

The person may hold a different god-concept. It’s not necessarily that God is telling people incompatible things, but that people are seeing the world with different god-concepts.

God communicates who he is in various ways, but people filter what they hear through their own life experiences, plus the fact that some hear more of what he says than others. That’s why Christians were commissioned to go out and teach. That’s how I see it, anyway.

 

[livingwordunity]

God communicates who he is in various ways, but people filter what they hear through their own life experiences, plus the fact that some hear more of what he says than others. That’s why Christians were commissioned to go out and teach. That’s how I see it, anyway.

I think that a lot of people erroneously believe that God is a bigger version of themselves. That’s how they can rationalize that God would approve of abortion and so-called “same-sex marriage”. They are projecting themselves onto God and are actually worshiping themselves. This is pride.

 

[ThinkingSapien]

God communicates who he is in various ways, but people filter what they hear through their own life experiences

And I think many of those experience will shape the person’s concept of God, as well as other influences such as social interactions. To me this thread isn’t a far cry from one of the “problem of evil” threads. Both deal with conflicts between some one’s god-concept and something to which the person has an attachment. It seems that it’s not entirely uncommon for some one to react to this conflict in a couple of ways; adjusting their conception of God, or modifying their own views seeking a position of less conflict.

Though it’s also worth mentioning that there are those for which there was never a conflict with their God-concept and same sex marriage. It seems to be more frequent in younger adults (those born after 1980) than older generations. I suspect it will be even more common as those that grew up seeing homosexual figures in their TV shows come into adulthood.

 

[livingwordunity]

Though it’s also worth mentioning that there are those for which there was never a conflict with their God-concept and same sex marriage. It seems to be more frequent in younger adults (those born after 1980) than older generations. I suspect it will be even more common as those that grew up seeing homosexual figures in their TV shows come into adulthood.

The argument for so-called “same-sex marriage” didn’t even exist until recently. The first time it was legalized in any country was in this century. It basically was brought up out of thin air. The older folks like me never had a problem with it before because the argument for it didn’t exist. So-called “same-sex marriage” is purely a man-made invention that goes against the very design of our bodies.

 

[ThinkingSapien]

The argument for so-called “same-sex marriage” didn’t even exist until recently.

Same sex arguments are more recent but various forms of promoting the idea of treating gays as equals were in existence before then. There’s a gradient of perspectives that have been presented from earlier attempts of perspective change until now.

So-called “same-sex marriage” is purely a man-made invention that goes against the very design of our bodies.

That’s also the case with civil marriage. Arguments for Same Sex Marriage are generally for Same Sex Civil Marriage, which isn’t the same as the Sacrament of Matrimony.

 

[JamesCaruso]

And I think many of those experience will shape the person’s concept of God, as well as other influences such as social interactions. To me this thread isn’t a far cry from one of the “problem of evil” threads. Both deal with conflicts between some one’s god-concept and something to which the person has an attachment. It seems that it’s not entirely uncommon for some one to react to this conflict in a couple of ways; adjusting their conception of God, or modifying their own views seeking a position of less conflict.

Though it’s also worth mentioning that there are those for which there was never a conflict with their God-concept and same sex marriage. It seems to be more frequent in younger adults (those born after 1980) than older generations. I suspect it will be even more common as those that grew up seeing homosexual figures in their TV shows come into adulthood.

Yes, as society becomes inured to same sex sin, the social conscience becomes duller and finally dead, and all those who go with the flow, will reach the point where they find it impossible to understand how same sex relations could be anything other than a fair and acceptable practice. Unless they have early and continuing training in their faith, the general consensus will likely become their moral benchmark. In this way, society becomes more and more degenerate, until it reaches the place where Sodom and Gomorrah found themselves. What happens after that is anyone’s guess, but extreme moral decay always seems to end badly, unless of course, society repents, as did Nineveh.

 

[livingwordunity]

Yes, as society becomes inured to same sex sin, the social conscience becomes duller and finally dead, and all those who go with the flow, will reach the point where they find it impossible to understand how same sex relations could be anything other than a fair and acceptable practice. Unless they have early and continuing training in their faith, the general consensus will likely become their moral benchmark. In this way, society becomes more and more degenerate, until it reaches the place where Sodom and Gomorrah found themselves. What happens after that is anyone’s guess, but extreme moral decay always seems to end badly, unless of course, society repents, as did Nineveh.

The world as a whole is looking more like Sodom and Gomorrah than like Nineveh. And I believe it would take a major global catastrophe if it were possible to shake people out of the dark confusion of the culture of death. That’s why Jesus asked, “…when the Son of man comes, will he find faith on earth?”

 

[JamesCaruso]

The world as a whole is looking more like Sodom and Gomorrah than like Nineveh. And I believe it would take a major global catastrophe if it were possible to shake people out of the dark confusion of the culture of death. That’s why Jesus asked, “…when the Son of man comes, will he find faith on earth?”

This is very true, but I am hoping it’s no today. I believe Our Lady said at Fatima that sho would bring about a period of peace in the world. As for Sodom and Gomorrah, didn’t God promise it there were just ten people who were just, he would not destroy those cities for the sake of the ten? I think there are a lot more than ten just people in the world. Mass is celebrated continuously around the world 24/7-- that ought to count for something. There are many holy people in this world-- just consider all the monasteries, all the religious orders, the priests, the faithful lay people, and that’s only within the Catholic Church. Beyond that, there are many good and just people trying to live moral lives. I remain hopeful that what man cannot seem to do, God can bring about. “Pray, hope, and don’t worry.” Padre Pio

 

[ThinkingSapien]

The world as a whole is looking more like Sodom and Gomorrah than like Nineveh. And I believe it would take a major global catastrophe if it were possible to shake people out of the dark confusion of the culture of death. That’s why Jesus asked, “…when the Son of man comes, will he find faith on earth?”

I’m not confident that a major disaster would “shake people out of the dark.” If you recall the more recent natural disasters (Hurricane, Earthquakes, Tsunamis) it seems that it is not uncommon for various people to cry out with a cacophony of their interpretation of the disaster, usually not agreeing with each other. Disasters don’t come across as a clear form of communication.

 

[livingwordunity]

I’m not confident that a major disaster would “shake people out of the dark.” If you recall the more recent natural disasters (Hurricane, Earthquakes, Tsunamis) it seems that it is not uncommon for various people to cry out with a cacophony of their interpretation of the disaster, usually not agreeing with each other. Disasters don’t come across as a clear form of communication.

As you say, different people will come up with their own interpretations of a natural disaster. But in general, tragedy and disaster does tend to have a spiritual affect on people. For example, just before America had its 9/11 terror attacks prayer wasn’t allowed in the schools. But the day it happened, all of a sudden people everywhere were praying. And prayer was suddenly not only allowed but encouraged in the public schools. I heard that in New York City, normally the abortion capital of America, the abortion rate for the city went down to zero for the first week following 9/11. Probably for most people the affect is temporary while others might have a dramatic conversion that lasts a lifetime.

 

[Linusthe2nd]

The Holy Bible condemns homosexual behavior in both Old and New Testaments. The Catechism of the Catholic Church says:

Chastity and homosexuality

2357 Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity, tradition has always declared that "homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered." They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.

2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God’s will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord’s Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.

2359 Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection.

They don’t realize it of course but they are worshiping Satan. ( to use the phrasology of many of the Councils of the Church).

Linus2nd

 

[ThinkingSapien]

But in general, tragedy and disaster does tend to have a spiritual affect on people.

Up to this point my thinking is compatible with yours in that it seems that church attendance and pray behaviour tends to be influenced by disasters and tragedies. Though I’m not sure that is the same as “shaking people out of the dark.”

For example, just before America had its 9/11 terror attacks prayer wasn’t allowed in the schools.

I don’t think that’s the best example since prayer was allowed in school both before and after 9/11. The school’s faculty isn’t allowed to force/lead prayer in public schools, nor can the state mandate it. I speculate that you may be thinking of the ruling that concluded state-sanctioned and/or mandatory bible reading to be unconstitutional[1] or the rulings that found state-sanctioned and/or mandatory prayer to be unconstitutional[2].

When I was in public high school (well before 9/11) there were days in which the students participated in national days of prayer. The faculty played no role in the organization of these prayers, though a student could ask the faculty for a space available for such purposes.

[1] Abington School District v. Schempp, 1963 - Unitarian Universalist student Ellroy Schempp protested the 1949 Pennsylvania law requiring bible reading in school by reading from the Koran. After he was reprimanded his father filed a complaint in the court system.

[2] Engel v. Vitale, 1962 - brought by the Jewish families of public school students in New Hyde Park, New York who complained that the prayer written by the state board of regents contradicted their religious beliefs.

 

[spiderweb]

To quote (roughly) Dr. Ray Guarendi:

“The new atheism is: There is a God, and He thinks just like me.”

 

[livingwordunity]

The world as a whole is looking more like Sodom and Gomorrah than like Nineveh. And I believe it would take a major global catastrophe if it were possible to shake people out of the dark confusion of the culture of death. That’s why Jesus asked, “…when the Son of man comes, will he find faith on earth?”

I’m not confident that a major disaster would “shake people out of the dark.”

I’m actually not sure it would either. That’s why I said “if it were possible”. I think you may have overlooked that part of what I said.