When priests get married

[chris_molter]

The Catholic Priest lives an unnatural existence and young men out there understand this and say no the Priesthood.

I think this is objectionable. Celibacy is NOT unnatural and vocations in many dioceses are increasing despite our culture being bombarded with sexuality in every imaginable flavor.

(also, to be specific it’s not the “Catholic Priest”, you’re referring to, it’s just the majority of the Latin Rite Priesthood)

 

[He_Man]

Actually, that’s not true. The U.S. has over 15,000 permanent Deacons, and the number keeps rising.

Even with the decline in the number of priest, there are now more clergy in the U.S. than ever, because of all the Deacons.

God Bless

Nonetheless, can you provide a causak link between the ability to marry and and incline or decline in numbers?

 

[EasterJoy]

I am ready to step up to the plate…

Okay, I get it now. The Sacrament of Holy Matrimony and pro creation are just being passed off by our sick society as normal. The marriage bed is a place of lust and impurity. That house full of kids are the fruits of this ungodliness. I wonder if your mother knows this?

I think I included unmitigated monogamy within that which was natural, sir. It was you who contended that a life of celibacy was an unnatural existence. This is not true:

“Moreover, everyone who has given up home, brothers or sisters, father or mother, wife or children or property for my sake will receive many times as much and inherit everlasting life.” Mt. 19:29

“I say this by way of concession, not as a command. Given my preference, I should like you to be as I am. Still, each one has his own gift from God, one this and another that. To those not married and to widows I have this to say: It would be well if they remain as they are, even as I do myself; but it they cannot exercise self-control, they should marry. It is better to marry than to be on fire.” 1 Cor. 6-9

St. Paul reinterated many times that the marriage bed is holy. Still, he actually went so far as to say that it was easier in general to serve the Lord without reservation if one did not have a spouse to please. Obviously, then, that state is not unnatural to the Christian. The two ideas are not at odds: one has this gift; another, that one. He wasn’t speaking from the “cheap seats”, either. He was living that life.

Our society is telling us that the divorce of sexual pleasure from pro-creation or even from the mutual life of self-giving of marriage is both natural or healthy, and you probably know that. Our society is also telling us in many ways that sexual continence is not within the capablities of a normal healthy adult, either. However well-intentioned they may be, even when it is spoken out of ignorance, when people tell us these things or when anyone tells us that Christians must marry to be normal and healthy, we are hearing lies. It isn’t true!

This is not to say that marriage is not a path to sanctity! Heaven forbid, for I am married myself! The Church may change her discipline with regards to which men may be ordained, and I’m glad you would be willing to give whatever is necessary to support the Church. I would like to think we’d all pony up whatever is necessary. Having said that, those who give up marriage to serve the Lord give the whole Church a great gift, whether they are ordained or not, great gifts for which we should be grateful. These are not unnatural existences. One would hope that much is obvious, even from the “cheap seats”!

 

[YipYupYep]

This is not to say that marriage is not a path to sanctity! Heaven forbid, for I am married mysel

Oh I see. So you are married.

Think of all the reasons that you married. All the things you have shared with your spouse, that could only be shared with one special person. How then can you put a happy face on Celibacy. It wasn’t for you, was it; and rightly so. You are living in accordance with the God driven order of things. Holy Matrimony between a man and a woman.

Why then can it be a good and natural thing for the Roman Catholic Priest to slug it out with a lifetime of frustration and loneliness. Never to know the joys that you experience at this very moment. Its an unnatural condition to live in.

 

[Rolltide]

Oh I see. So you are married.

Think of all the reasons that you married. All the things you have shared with your spouse, that could only be shared with one special person. How then can you put a happy face on Celibacy. It wasn’t for you, was it; and rightly so. You are living in accordance with the God driven order of things. Holy Matrimony between a man and a woman.

Why then can it be a good and natural thing for the Roman Catholic Priest to slug it out with a lifetime of frustration and loneliness. Never to know the joys that you experience at this very moment. Its an unnatural condition to live in.

There are millions of single people in the US, both men and women, who choose for whatever reason to remain single for their entire life. A large number of them are perfectly happy. Is this unnatural? There is nothing wrong with getting married, but likewise, there is nothing wrong or unnatural about a lifetime of celibacy.

 

[Rolltide]

Why then can it be a good and natural thing for the Roman Catholic Priest to slug it out with a lifetime of frustration and loneliness. Never to know the joys that you experience at this very moment. Its an unnatural condition to live in.

It is also important to note that in many denominations that DO allow for a married priesthood (or married ministers), the number of vocations are STILL declining. This has more to do with the secularization of society than than a celibate priesthood. A married clergy is NOT a panacea.

 

[He_Man]

It is also important to note that in many denominations that DO allow for a married priesthood (or married ministers), the number of vocations are STILL declining. This has more to do with the secularization of society than than a celibate priesthood. A married clergy is NOT a panacea.

And yet people will claim it is, with no evidence to support them. Sad.

 

[Holland]

At the present time, I don’t think it can work. We can’t even figure out how to keep the people in the pews focused on the vocation they have chosen, namely marriage. Divorce is high, even in the Catholic Church. To expect a priest to have 2 vocations and do both of them well all of the time is an unreasonable expectation at this point in time.

 

[Aramis]

And yet people will claim it is, with no evidence to support them. Sad.

Even with the married priesthood, vocations suffered a strong decline in many Eastern Catholic Churches. In the US, where married priesthoods were suppressed, vocations suffered even more.

Some dioceses have one priest per parish, counting retirees.

There are a dozen or so men in the Ruthenian Metropolitan Church (That is, the Ruthenian Catholic Church in the United States) are in formation for the permanent deaconate. Those in grey have wives, those in black do not.

Several of the Bishops are willing to ordain married men, but Tradition calls for three things:

1. Permission of the wife
2. discernment of a true calling to the clerical life
3. canonical enrollment in the church which they will serve prior to ordination.

It is not unheard of to ask any children for permission as well…

Even in the Roman Church, some bishops ask the children. I know Archbishop Francis +Hurley asked both my mother and myself before ordaining my father a Roman Catholic Deacon.

 

[EasterJoy]

Oh I see. So you are married.

Think of all the reasons that you married. All the things you have shared with your spouse, that could only be shared with one special person. How then can you put a happy face on Celibacy. It wasn’t for you, was it; and rightly so. You are living in accordance with the God driven order of things. Holy Matrimony between a man and a woman.

Why then can it be a good and natural thing for the Roman Catholic Priest to slug it out with a lifetime of frustration and loneliness. Never to know the joys that you experience at this very moment. Its an unnatural condition to live in.

When I was growing up, our pastor used to come to our house every third Monday, for dinner. (He rotated between us and some other relatives of ours). He told us that when he received his call, he was courting a particular girl and dreamed of having a big family. So in prayer he replied, “Lord, if you want me to be a priest, you’ll have to do something about this girl, because I wouldn’t want any other.” Do you know what happened? The girl entered the convent! He said, “That was my answer. Of course, she didn’t stay, but that was my answer.”

He also used to tell us that he felt that instead of having one family and a dozen children, he had dozens of families and hundreds of children. The Lord kept that promise he made to those who give up everything for him. I have spoken to many priests who feel the same way.

The particular call to chastity of the priesthood and religious life is a radical existence, but it is not unnatural. Is it difficult? Yes, it is. It is not for everybody. St. Paul was clear about that. I am here to tell you that the priesthood doesn’t generally involve cleaning up a lot of barf, as my vocation has. There aren’t many in my vocation who have someone to do their cooking and cleaning for them, nor an hour of quiet a day for personal prayer, on top of daily Mass. Not many in my vocation can take a month or a year off to go on retreat, nor can they make their life plans without thinking of how they will provide sustenance and education for their children. Priests can forget their ordination anniversaries without repercusion. They hear people’s deepest most shameful secrets, but they are not called upon to decide whether a particular dress makes a woman look heavy. Marriage is a different vocation, and yes, also a vocation of chastity, but it is not an easier life, not necessarily.

I had a priest who served in the military tell me he was the most free of all the chaplains. He was totally free to tell the truth to the brass, because he did not have to fear losing his job. He did not have to fear being unable to provide for his family. That is something a married man doesn’t have, either.

Besides, think of all the good that the Missionaries of Charity do that mothers their age cannot do. Both are holy vocations, but it is ridiculous to say that Mother Theresa lived an unnatural life! How about the Little Flower? Are you saying it unnatural that such a tender soul was not someone’s mother? You really need to expand your thinking.

 

[Newbie2]

Actually, that’s not true. The U.S. has over 15,000 permanent Deacons, and the number keeps rising.

Even with the decline in the number of priest, there are now more clergy in the U.S. than ever, because of all the Deacons.

God Bless

Well, busting at the seams is a “eye of the beholder” thing, no? Just ask my wife.

Yes, more Deacons, and their ministries are starting to become more visible in the Church in America. Thank God…we need every one of them.

 

[Dan-Man916]

There is something here that people are not considering.
The priesthood used to be an attractive “career” option for many men. Consider the world before the rapid changes in the past 100 years that changed these reasons (even up to the 1950’s).

1. The priesthood offered education where it was not possible unless one was very wealthy.
2. The priesthood offered stable room and board
3. The priesthood offered “social security” in old age (the diocese or parish would take care of your material and medical needs)
4. The priesthood offered an increase in class from the poor class
5. The priesthood was very respected

Now,

1. Everyone is educated, even in college
2. Income is much greater than it used to be so that people are financially stable.
3. People have 401k, pension and social security, own their own homes, and are relatively wealthy nowadays.
4. There is the middle class. Class structure is not what it was because everyone lives in a higher standard.
5. Few people see the priesthood as a noble calling of sacrifice with the material gaines we have today.

What I am saying is that the reasons for the decline in the priesthood is that men went into the priesthood for those reasons that are just as important as a calling. Those reasons are no longer very compelling anymore. I think this is the real underlying reason.

 

[SacredHeartFan]

the preist would have to get another job like other protestant ministers.
the plate would not cut it.

 

[EasterJoy]

the preist would have to get another job like other protestant ministers.
the plate would not cut it.

No, we’d have to pony up the money, because we have too few priests to afford to have them using up their time at a different job. We have to hire lay people to do some of the work that priests used do, as it is!

I think the Church would start with ordaining the married men to the priesthood who are currently admitted to the diaconate and paid to serve as parish adminstrators.

 

[YipYupYep]

There is something here that people are not considering.
The priesthood used to be an attractive “career” option for many men. Consider the world before the rapid changes in the past 100 years that changed these reasons (even up to the 1950’s).

1. The priesthood offered education where it was not possible unless one was very wealthy.
2. The priesthood offered stable room and board
3. The priesthood offered “social security” in old age (the diocese or parish would take care of your material and medical needs)
4. The priesthood offered an increase in class from the poor class
5. The priesthood was very respected

As it was here a hundred years ago, so it is now in Africa.

I hate to say this, however, the vocation directors of all the Priestly Orders must be on guard. They are flooded with requests from Africa to enter Seminary. Actually, we have tons of African priests around here. Here in my own parish, we have a African who’s accent is so heavy, no one has any idea of what the homily was about.

 

[KingAlfred]

Lets just say that today Rome made the decision to allow all there priests to marry.

Well, if they did marry, the wife better have her own money!

Just imagine if your parish had to support a few priest wives. Food, clothing, a place to live. Think about that. I sure would try to do my just share to support the parish. Would everyone? You tell me. Putting a dollar bill in the plate on Sunday is not going to cut it anymore.

If there were several priests in the parish, would you expect all six to live together, with there children. That’s three homes. All furnished. Health insurance. Maybe even a second car. There going to need some serious bucks to keep it going.

Don’t forget the kids. They need to be fed and clothed in a proper fashion. Books, toys, the whole nine yards. All the money will have to come out of the plate. That would turn the present financial situation upside down.

The spiritual reasons aside. How is that going to work? What’s your opinion.

It would change Catholicism dramatically, forever. Bad idea.

 

[YipYupYep]

It would change Catholicism dramatically, forever. Bad idea.

Too late for that.

I would say that it has already changed dramatically, and for the worse. We don’t have any American born Priests.

 

[Digitonomy]

It’s one of the impediments to marriage according to Canon Law.

So it’s not allowed now. No one has disputed this. The OP asked “Lets just say that today Rome made the decision to allow all there priests to marry.”

I’m not aware of a time when priests married, but the validity would not seem to be in doubt, since laicized priests can validly marry - the issue seems to be one of discipline, rather than doctrine.

 

[YipYupYep]

How about the Little Flower? Are you saying it unnatural that such a tender soul was not someone’s mother? You really need to expand your thinking.

A cloistered Nun or Monk would be in my judgement a special situation. No, they do live in the natural world, they live in a supernatural environment. Appart. Actually, they are, in a sense married. Maybe more that just in a sense.

Yes human, but somehow super human.

 

[Aramis]

So it’s not allowed now. No one has disputed this. The OP asked “Lets just say that today Rome made the decision to allow all there priests to marry.”

I’m not aware of a time when priests married, but the validity would not seem to be in doubt, since laicized priests can validly marry - the issue seems to be one of discipline, rather than doctrine.

Since the 2nd century, the rule has been that once ordained,new marriage was not able to be contracted. It’s even in the Apostolic Constitutions. An exception for married clerics who are widowed while having small children has been around as long.

But that’s VERY rare.