When Should We Genuflect?

[Apryl]

I hope someone can help me with how to handle a tricky entrance to our Latin Rite church.

The situation:
I need to help my elderly mother to the handicapped section in the front row which is accessible from the front right side entrance of the church. (She is physically incapable of genuflecting).
The Holy Water font is just left of this entrance, and the Tabernacle is just to the right.
After helping my mother, I need to turn left to walk to my pew, turning my back to the Tabernacle.

When do I genuflect? Bless myself? Do I help her first?

Any advice would be appreciated.:thankyou:

I am in no way an authority, so this is my OPINION

But when you are doing this task to help someone in need, you should remain reverential.

I would concentrate on getting her safely where she needs to go, and then, as you are moving away from her, then you may genuflect.

Again, my OPINION!

 

[Apryl]

You’re only supposed to do the sign of peace with those immediately near you. You are not supposed to really be walking anywhere.

Where do you get that? I have looked in the GIRM, although not recently, and I do not recall there being any prohibition of moving to offer a greeting to others. While it may not be required, there is nothing to say that I should not

Since I often sit at the end of my pew, sometimes, it’s easier for me to approach those to the other side of the aisle, which would be crossing in front of the Tabernacle.

The reason for my question.

 

[peary1]

I’m so confused on when it is proper to bow and when it is proper to genuflect. Basically what I do is when I first walk in I, of course, cross myself with the holy water, than when I walk to the aisle, I make a profound bow, after I find where I want to sit, than I genflect before entering the pew. I also do the same, I genuflect when I leave the pew after mass has ended, than I will make another profound bow, when I reach the end of the aisle when I’m walking out. Also, I cross myself when I genuflect, is that ok? Please use layman terms, I’m a little slow

I practically do the same. When I walk into the church, I cross myself with holy water. Then, when I finally find a pew in which to sit, I will genuflect towards the Tabernacle. Also, before I leave after Mass, I do the same. That is up to you as to whether or not you want to cross yourself as you genuflect, or bow. As I have gotten older and my knees are giving me trouble, I sometimes bow now instead of genuflecting as the latter is too painful. When I bow, I will make the sign of the cross too. As far as I am concerned, we are doing nothing out of the ordinary, and I don’t see why it wouldn’t be acceptable.

 

[DihydrogenOxide]

Where do you get that? I have looked in the GIRM, although not recently, and I do not recall there being any prohibition of moving to offer a greeting to others. While it may not be required, there is nothing to say that I should not

Since I often sit at the end of my pew, sometimes, it’s easier for me to approach those to the other side of the aisle, which would be crossing in front of the Tabernacle.

The reason for my question.

This is the quote from the GIRM on Vatican website.

The Rite of Peace: GIRM

1. The Rite of Peace follows, by which the Church asks for peace and unity for herself and for the whole human family, and the faithful express to each other their ecclesial communion and mutual charity before communicating in the Sacrament.

As for the sign of peace to be given, the manner is to be established by Conferences of Bishops in accordance with the culture and customs of the peoples. It is, however, appropriate that each person offer the sign of peace only to those who are nearest and in a sober manner.

This is the same that is listed on the USCCB website for GIRM, so the USCCB has the same view on this matter as does the Vatican.

Waving silently toward someone across the aisle is probably more appropriate. Standing directly in front of Jesus, is like standing in the aisle right in front of a seated king, but even more so, the King of kings.

Myself, I generally stand where I am so as to keep Jesus most noticeable and not detract others’ attention from being focused primarily on Him.

 

[Apryl]

This is the quote from the GIRM on Vatican website

And your quote does not say that it is INappropriate to move across the aisle, or to take more than a few steps to offer a greeting to another

Since the church doesn’t tell me it is inappropriate, I will take it that it is not inappropriate

Which brings me back to my first question:

Why is it that we do not genuflect during the Sign of Peace?

 

[DihydrogenOxide]

And your quote does not say that it is INappropriate to move across the aisle, or to take more than a few steps to offer a greeting to another

Since the church doesn’t tell me it is inappropriate, I will take it that it is not inappropriate

Which brings me back to my first question:

Why is it that we do not genuflect during the Sign of Peace?

Then, please, by all means at the very, very, very least bow. You really should kneel(yes, on both knees) as you enter your pew at this point, because Jesus is exposed in the Blessed Sacrament.

T__T Read the text in the link I gave you some posts above on posture. I answered your question on that by giving you that link.

 

[Apryl]

I answered your question on that by giving you that link.

No. You didn’t answer my question

But you did try, and you made commendable attempts. I thank you for all of your attempts.

 

[NPC]

And your quote does not say that it is INappropriate to move across the aisle, or to take more than a few steps to offer a greeting to another

Since the church doesn’t tell me it is inappropriate, I will take it that it is not inappropriate

Which brings me back to my first question:

Why is it that we do not genuflect during the Sign of Peace?

Please look at Redemptionis Sacramentum:

"[71.] The practice of the Roman Rite is to be maintained according to which the peace is extended shortly before Holy Communion. For according to the tradition of the Roman Rite, this practice does not have the connotation either of reconciliation or of a remission of sins, but instead signifies peace, communion and charity before the reception of the Most Holy Eucharist.[151] It is rather the Penitential Act to be carried out at the beginning of Mass (especially in its first form) which has the character of reconciliation among brothers and sisters.

[72.] It is appropriate “that each one give the sign of peace only to those who are nearest and in a sober manner”. “The Priest may give the sign of peace to the ministers but always remains within the sanctuary, so as not to disturb the celebration. He does likewise if for a just reason he wishes to extend the sign of peace to some few of the faithful”. “As regards the sign to be exchanged, the manner is to be established by the Conference of Bishops in accordance with the dispositions and customs of the people”, and their acts are subject to the recognitio of the Apostolic See." [emphasis mine]

The sign of peace is a symbolic gesture indicating that one is at peace with all of one’s neighbours before receiving the Eucharist. It is not just about being at peace with your best friend, your spouse, your son, daughter, mother, father…it signifies peace with the whole community; there is simply no need to leave one’s place. It should, of course, be well meant, but it should not in any way disturb or take the focus off what comes next - the Agnus Dei.

 

[DihydrogenOxide]

No. You didn’t answer my question

But you did try, and you made commendable attempts. I thank you for all of your attempts.

For what reason would we genuflect during the sign of peace? Posture is a tradition that has been passed down since the time of Christ. The position of standing is for honor toward neighbor.

Please look at Redemptionis Sacramentum:

"[71.] The practice of the Roman Rite is to be maintained according to which the peace is extended shortly before Holy Communion. For according to the tradition of the Roman Rite, this practice does not have the connotation either of reconciliation or of a remission of sins, but instead signifies peace, communion and charity before the reception of the Most Holy Eucharist.[151] It is rather the Penitential Act to be carried out at the beginning of Mass (especially in its first form) which has the character of reconciliation among brothers and sisters.

[72.] It is appropriate “that each one give the sign of peace only to those who are nearest and in a sober manner”. “The Priest may give the sign of peace to the ministers but always remains within the sanctuary, so as not to disturb the celebration. He does likewise if for a just reason he wishes to extend the sign of peace to some few of the faithful”. “As regards the sign to be exchanged, the manner is to be established by the Conference of Bishops in accordance with the dispositions and customs of the people”, and their acts are subject to the recognitio of the Apostolic See." [emphasis mine]

The sign of peace is a symbolic gesture indicating that one is at peace with all of one’s neighbours before receiving the Eucharist. It is not just about being at peace with your best friend, your spouse, your son, daughter, mother, father…it signifies peace with the whole community; there is simply no need to leave one’s place. It should, of course, be well meant, but it should not in any way disturb or take the focus off what comes next - the Agnus Dei.

This is actually very close to what is written in the Catechism.

I agree entirely with this. It should never take the focus off of Jesus, who is directly in front of the congregation at this point in the Mass. The sign of peace is a sign of forgiveness with others in the congregation. The Agnus Dei is begging forgiveness and peace of the Lord. It is asking for forgiveness for sins as we forgive others their sins.

 

[pnewton]

While this is an old thread, it is important to note that there are two other times when both celebrant and faithful should genuflect: during the Creed when we pray “by the power of the Holy Spirit…and became man (soon to be prayed incarnate of the Virgin Mary, or similar words)”. While we bow at this portion of the Creed most of the time, during the Solemntiy of the Annunciation (March 25th) and the Nativity of the Lord (December 25th), we genuflect.

I was just thinking the same thing and I saw you had posted it.

 

[area52]

I’m so confused on when it is proper to bow and when it is proper to genuflect. Basically what I do is when I first walk in I, of course, cross myself with the holy water, than when I walk to the aisle, I make a profound bow, after I find where I want to sit, than I genflect before entering the pew. I also do the same, I genuflect when I leave the pew after mass has ended, than I will make another profound bow, when I reach the end of the aisle when I’m walking out. Also, I cross myself when I genuflect, is that ok? Please use layman terms, I’m a little slow

Genuflection is an act of reverence consisting of falling onto (usually) one knee. It originated as a posture of respect of a knight before a king. Today the term is used mostly in the Latin rite of the Catholic Church. Catholics who come into the presence of the Eucharist (generally stored in the tabernacle) are expected to genuflect on the right knee as a sign of devotion. If the Eucharist is exposed in a monstrance, many Catholics genuflect on both knees.

[edited]

 

[japhy]

As for the sign of peace to be given, the manner is to be established by Conferences of Bishops in accordance with the culture and customs of the peoples. It is, however, appropriate that each person offer the sign of peace only to those who are nearest and in a sober manner.
And your quote does not say that it is INappropriate to move across the aisle, or to take more than a few steps to offer a greeting to another

Since the church doesn’t tell me it is inappropriate, I will take it that it is not inappropriate

The Church also doesn’t tell you it’s inappropriate to walk up to the sanctuary (if you are seated in the front pew) to give the Sign of Peace to the priest. Does the Church have to tell you this? The GIRM says clearly that what is appropriate is to offer the Sign of Peace only to those who are nearest, soberly. Now, I suppose if the church is very sparsely populated (say at a weekday Mass), there might be no one next to you, and you might feel impelled to go to those who are closest to you. However, the Sign of Peace can also be given simply by a gesture of acknowledgment to those you cannot reach. I do this at daily Mass.

So, as to your question:

Why is it that we do not genuflect during the Sign of Peace?

The Church clearly has not envisioned people getting up and walking across the main aisle of the church (or otherwise passing in front of the tabernacle) during the Sign of Peace. That is why the Church does not say anything about it: because she does not expect that anyone would need to do so.

You said you used to genuflect, but you don’t anymore: “I do not genuflect at this time (although, at one time, I did… not sure why, but I did it intentionally).” So, since the Church doesn’t require it or even mention it in the documents on the liturgy, the question should be directed at you: if you used to genuflect when you passed the tabernacle during the Sign of Peace and you don’t anymore, why did you stop?

 

[Apryl]

You said you used to genuflect, but you don’t anymore: “I do not genuflect at this time (although, at one time, I did… not sure why, but I did it intentionally).” So, since the Church doesn’t require it or even mention it in the documents on the liturgy, the question should be directed at you: if you used to genuflect when you passed the tabernacle during the Sign of Peace and you don’t anymore, why did you stop?

Someone told me that I shouldn’t. I can’t recall who it was, but it was a member of my parish who I believed knew the correct manners of the Mass.

Not to mention: when the Priest and Ministers of Service are moving around at the Sign of Peace preparing for Communion, I do not see them genuflecting.

As a person who visits a variety of parishes around the country, often with people who I have little to no other religious contact, and I see how common (almost mandated) it is for people to cross the center aisle for the Peace Greeting, I think the can may be out of the bag on this one.

I agree that the Sign of Peace is NOT a social time, and I don’t agree with those who think they are supposed to speak to every one in the church, or the Sign of Peace should not take as much time as the homily I do see the Sign of Peace as something that is done in MANY parishes (I can’t think of a single church, Shrine, Basilica that I have been during the last ten years where this did not happen). I didn’t think it noteworthy as there are churches which have been built ‘in the round’ and it’s pretty hard to have a Sign of Peace and not be in front of the Tabernacle (Thank God that the Tabernacle is still inside the church, imo)

Should I have seen this as a liturgical abuse? Considering how seldom I do NOT see this happen? Until there is a change, how does one address this question of genuflecting or not genuflecting?

I appreciate your responses, but some of them (no names are necessary) are downright hostile I don’t get why. The GIRM says to appoach those nearest to you. That, for some of us, esp if we do not attend Mass with immediate family, may be across the aisle. If past practice, over 20+ years, has been that we DO cross the aisle for those ‘nearest to us’, why should I assume that you know better than my parish priest, or the many other Celebrants, including Bishops and Cardinals who have visited? By what authority can you stamp your responses (and in some cases, hostility) as appropriate?

 

[benedictgal]

Someone told me that I shouldn’t. I can’t recall who it was, but it was a member of my parish who I believed knew the correct manners of the Mass.

Not to mention: when the Priest and Ministers of Service are moving around at the Sign of Peace preparing for Communion, I do not see them genuflecting.

As a person who visits a variety of parishes around the country, often with people who I have little to no other religious contact, and I see how common (almost mandated) it is for people to cross the center aisle for the Peace Greeting, I think the can may be out of the bag on this one.

I agree that the Sign of Peace is NOT a social time, and I don’t agree with those who think they are supposed to speak to every one in the church, or the Sign of Peace should not take as much time as the homily I do see the Sign of Peace as something that is done in MANY parishes (I can’t think of a single church, Shrine, Basilica that I have been during the last ten years where this did not happen). I didn’t think it noteworthy as there are churches which have been built ‘in the round’ and it’s pretty hard to have a Sign of Peace and not be in front of the Tabernacle (Thank God that the Tabernacle is still inside the church, imo)

Should I have seen this as a liturgical abuse? Considering how seldom I do NOT see this happen? Until there is a change, how does one address this question of genuflecting or not genuflecting?

I appreciate your responses, but some of them (no names are necessary) are downright hostile I don’t get why. The GIRM says to appoach those nearest to you. That, for some of us, esp if we do not attend Mass with immediate family, may be across the aisle. If past practice, over 20+ years, has been that we DO cross the aisle for those ‘nearest to us’, why should I assume that you know better than my parish priest, or the many other Celebrants, including Bishops and Cardinals who have visited? By what authority can you stamp your responses (and in some cases, hostility) as appropriate?

It is not mandated that people cross the aisle to impart the Sign of Peace to each other. We are to impart the sign of peace to those who are closest to us. Thus, there is no need to genuflect to reach across the aisle because we should not even be going there.

Regarding the bishops and cardinals you mention, chances are the visiting prelates are too busy with what is going on in the Sanctuary to notice what is happening any place else in the Chuch. We should not take it as their ascent as to what you are doing. Now that you know better, given the authoritative documents cited, it would do you well, and all of us, to heed the documents.

The Sign of Peace should be imparted with sobriety. This is not a “meet and greet” session. If folks want that, they can easily engage in such activity after the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, not during it. It is encouraging that we, at least, agree on that point.

Regarding the EMHCs, they have no business being up in the altar area during the Sign of Peace. They should approach the altar only after the celebrant has communicated. This is also found in the GIRM.

With all due respect, rather than panning people for citing the authoritative documents of the Church, it would do well to read and heed what the GIRM and RS say. Your question has been sufficiently answered. As I see it, you are merely pitching the old and tired straw man argument.

 

[Apryl]

It is not mandated that people cross the aisle to impart the Sign of Peace to each other. We are to impart the sign of peace to those who are closest to us. Thus, there is no need to genuflect to reach across the aisle because we should not even be going there.

:banghead:

BUT if a person does happen to cross in front of the Tabernacle… do we genuflect during the Sign of Peace or not?

While I realize that I’ve asked this question many times… I realize that I have asked this question many times.

While I appreciate the many answers to the question, I would appreciate an answer to the question.

Regarding the bishops and cardinals you mention, chances are the visiting prelates are too busy with what is going on in the Sanctuary to notice what is happening any place else in the Chuch. We should not take it as their ascent as to what you are doing. Now that you know better, given the authoritative documents cited, it would do you well, and all of us, to heed the documents.

Actually, the bishops and cardinals that I mentioned went to those in the pews and extended a hand, or offered a hug, at the Sign of Peace. I won’t bother to give names or mention Dioceses, but let it suffice to say that it is not usually in Michigan. Most of my bishop and cardinal interaction has been outside of Michigan… but it has also been in Michigan.

With that in mind: Because this is a variety of priests, from a variety of dioceses, meaning a variety of bishops to give direction, I would believe that if they do it, then it’s not wrong. Unless you know something about the Masses I have attended that I don’t know.

The Sign of Peace should be imparted with sobriety. This is not a “meet and greet” session. If folks want that, they can easily engage in such activity after the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, not during it. It is encouraging that we, at least, agree on that point.

We do agree. But I think we also agree that one should eat a healthy diet. Does that mean that one should never eat a pizza? Pizza can have all of the basic food groups and can be pretty balanced (based on it not being the only meal of the day). Does that mean that while pizza is not an ideal meal for every day, and if one wants to eat a healthy diet, one should never indulge in pizza? or that pizza shouldn’t be eaten more than twice a year?

I don’t think you are saying that… which is why I used the example.

If I’m in a church, and there are people to one side of me who are all embracing at the sign of peace, I believe that I can be very ‘sober’ as I approach someone to the other side who may be across an aisle. Would I be benefitting the Mass to stand there, alone, and not reach out to any one simply because of the aisle? Esp when it has been the past practice of the parish, and with the presence and inclusion of priests of other parishes and dioceses? Would it benefit any one to harp on that one line?

Regarding the EMHCs, they have no business being up in the altar area during the Sign of Peace. They should approach the altar only after the celebrant has communicated. This is also found in the GIRM.

I did not say anything about the EMHCs. I’m speaking of the Ministers of Service. A different role. In my diocese, the MoS are on the altar throughout the Mass. At my parish, the EMHCs do not go to the altar until after the Celebrant has communicated. Since the EMHCs are not in question, and since the MoS and the Deacon and the Priest are at the altar and they do move about…

Would you like to answer the question that was asked now?

With all due respect, rather than panning people for citing the authoritative documents of the Church, it would do well to read and heed what the GIRM and RS say. Your question has been sufficiently answered. As I see it, you are merely pitching the old and tired straw man argument.

Perhaps if you read my question, you would realize that not only has it not been answered, that I anm not pitching the old and tired straw man argument.

If you would rather not answer, that’s fine, too. I am simply asking for the answer to a question that has been asked and I have not strayed from my original question because the question that I have asked has opened the door for some soapboxing… although many of the items you have addressed are very valid, and I agree with them, they are not directly related to my question. I would just like an answer :banghead:

 

[area52]

Reading all the post regarding “when should you genuflect”, I find it hard to believed the confusion from all Roman Catholics who have responded to the post. Aren’t you all practicing the same thing?

 

[japhy]

BUT if a person does happen to cross in front of the Tabernacle… do we genuflect during the Sign of Peace or not?

I think you should genuflect as you pass in front of the tabernacle, as per the GIRM:
During Mass, three genuflections are made by the priest celebrant: namely, after the showing of the host, after the showing of the chalice, and before Communion. …

If, however, the tabernacle with the Most Blessed Sacrament is present in the sanctuary, the priest, the deacon, and the other ministers genuflect when they approach the altar and when they depart from it, but not during the celebration of Mass itself.

Otherwise all who pass before the Most Blessed Sacrament genuflect, unless they are moving in procession.
The FIRST paragraph I quoted as to do with the three genuflections made by the priest celebrant to the Most Holy Eucharist being made present on the altar; they have nothing to do with the tabernacle.

The SECOND paragraph has a confusing “however” in it, translating the Latin vero. I think this is confusing because this paragraph is introducing the tabernacle, which was not covered in the previous paragraph. This paragraph (and the next) have to do with tabernacle-genuflection protocol. I think the second paragraph is saying: if the tabernacle is in the sanctuary, ministers do not genuflect every time they pass in front of it in the sanctuary, but rather they do so (as a group, most likely) when approaching the sanctuary (at the entrance procession) and when leaving it (at the exit procession). I think the “not during the celebration of the Mass itself” means both that do not need to genuflect individually when approaching the sanctuary or leaving the sanctuary during the course of the Mass, AND that they do not need to genuflect as they cross in front of the tabernacle while moving around in the sanctuary. The SECOND paragraph is about MINISTERS in the SANCTUARY when the TABERNACLE is also there.

The THIRD paragraph covers the case of the tabernacle being outside the sanctuary. You should genuflect as you pass it, unless moving in procession with others.

Honestly, I don’t know why these instructions needed changing. It’s far simpler and more consistent to just say: genuflect as you pass the tabernacle unless you’re holding something or are in procession, in which case bow. I’m pretty sure that’s how it’s done in the Extraordinary Form.

 

[japhy]

I find it hard to believed the confusion from all Roman Catholics who have responded to the post. Aren’t you all practicing the same thing?

And none of us is perfect yet.

But, to your point: the liturgical regulations of the Roman Rite differ from the other RItes of the Catholic Church (genuflections and kneeling are common in the Roman Rite, but are not at all common in, say, the Byzantine Rite), and the GIRM is not “required reading” for a Catholic. The gestures and postures, while significant and appropriate expressions of our Catholic faith, are not more important than knowledge of Jesus Christ and being a member of His Body.

I’m not following the rabbit any further down this hole.

 

[Apryl]

Honestly, I don’t know why these instructions needed changing. It’s far simpler and more consistent to just say: genuflect as you pass the tabernacle unless you’re holding something or are in procession, in which case bow. I’m pretty sure that’s how it’s done in the Extraordinary Form.

I agree.

Based on this great answer, I will simply go back to genuflecting should I ever pass in front of the tabernacle… at any time. I am not a priest, and if I am in procession I will bow at that time.

Actually, I am grateful to have the mobility to bow, kneel, and genuflect for My Lord and Savior, and will gladly do so whenever I can to show Him the Honor and Glory that he deserves.

 

[area52]

And none of us is perfect yet.

But, to your point: the liturgical regulations of the Roman Rite differ from the other RItes of the Catholic Church (genuflections and kneeling are common in the Roman Rite, but are not at all common in, say, the Byzantine Rite), and the GIRM is not “required reading” for a Catholic. The gestures and postures, while significant and appropriate expressions of our Catholic faith, are not more important than knowledge of Jesus Christ and being a member of His Body.

I’m not following the rabbit any further down this hole.

I totally agree with you that none of us is perfect. The only perfect person I know is Jesus Christ. Our perfections will be realized when we are with Him in heaven… and not until then…Let’s keep on knowing more of Jesus Christ to be our goal instead of trying to learn what is the proper way to genuflect… Let God be our center of attention…

Philippians chapter 3 verses 17 to 21:
Brethren, join in following my example and observe those who walk according to the pattern you have in us, for many walk of whom I often told you and now tell you even weeping, that they are enemies of the cross of Christ, whose end is destruction, whose God is their appetite, and whose glory is in their shame who set their minds on earthly things. For our citizenship is in heaven from which also we eagerly wait for a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ, who will transform the body of our humble state into conformity with the body of His glory, by the exertion of the power that He has even to subject all things to Himself.

To God be the glory… Amen