When should we stand/kneel?

[forthright]

I’m putting in a lot of detail here so everyone has all the info. Sorry if I’m long winded. . .

Except for Churches that don’t have kneelers at all, I have never been to a Mass where all the faithful stand at the beginning of the communion procession and remain standing until all have received. But last week, our Bishop asked that all parishes in our diocese begin doing this starting the first Sunday of Lent.

This is the new process:

• Begin kneeling at the end of the *Sanctus *(same as before)
• Stand after the great Amen (same as before)
• Kneel after the Agnus Dei (same as before)
• All stand after the priest receives communion and remain standing until all have gone through the communion procession (new)
• (finally) everyone either sit or kneel for a period of silence

Describing how this is to take place is section 43 of the GIRM:

1. The faithful should stand from the beginning of the Entrance chant, or while the priest approaches the altar, until the end of the Collect; for the *Alleluia *chant before the Gospel; while the Gospel itself is proclaimed; during the Profession of Faith and the Prayer of the Faithful; from the invitation, *Orate, fraters *(Pray, brethren), before the prayer over the offerings until the end of Mass, except at the places indicated below. They should, however, sit while the readings before the Gospel and the responsorial Psalm are proclaimed and for the homily and while the Preparation of the Gifts at the Offertory is taking place; and, as circumstances allow, they may sit or kneel while the period of sacred silence after Communion is observed.

In the dioceses of the United States of America, they should kneel beginning after the singing or recitation of the *Sanctus *until after the *Amen *of the Eucharistic Prayer, except when prevented on occasion by reasons of health, lack of space, the large number of people present, or some other good reason. Those who do not kneel ought to make a profound bow when the priest genuflects after the consecration. The faithful kneel after the *Agnus Dei *unless the Diocesan Bishop determines otherwise.

With a view to a uniformity in gestures and postures during one and the same celebration, the faithful should follow the directions which the deacon, lay minister, or priest gives according to whatever is indicated in the Missal.

At first, I was slightly irritated by what seemed to be a reduction in the reverence shown at Mass, but this seemed like a pointless change that I could go along with if just to be in obedience to my bishop. (From the announcement made, the bishops seems to be focusing on the “with a view to uniformity in gestures and postures during one and the same celebration” phrase - focusing on the need for the Body of Christ to act in unison with each other instead of independently from each other.)

So here’s my question . . . I was always taught to remain kneeling until the consecrated hosts were returned to the tabernacle. That’s not really a possibility anymore. So was the practice of remaining kneeling just a pious tradition that was dropped off at the last GIRM revision? The GIRM seems to give the bishop at least some discretion on when people should kneel/stand during this portion of the Mass.

I’m not going to make a big deal out of this, and I’m going to follow the wishes of the bishop, but I still feel disappointed. I keep thinking we need more reverence, not less. Any comments?

 

[m134e5]

It is a unique custom of the United States to kneel during and after communion. Perhaps the bishop was wanting to be in conformity with the rest of the world. I cannot kneel for very long at all, so often the only time I kneel in church is to receive communion.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

forthright:

This is the new process:

• Begin kneeling at the end of the *Sanctus *(same as before)
• Stand after the great Amen (same as before)
• Kneel after the Agnus Dei (same as before)
• All stand after the priest receives communion and remain standing until all have gone through the communion procession (new)
• (finally) everyone either sit or kneel for a period of silence

Describing how this is to take place is section 43 of the GIRM:

Interpreting #43 according to Rome and the USCCB:

This is the new process:

• Begin kneeling at the end of the *Sanctus *(same as before)
• Stand after the great Amen (same as before)
• Kneel after the Agnus Dei (same as before)
• All stand after the priest receives communion and remain standing until you have returned from Communion (new)
• Upon returning to your seat you may either sit or kneel or stand until after a period of silence.

 

[John_Lilburne]

Br. Rich SFO:

Interpreting #43 according to Rome and the USCCB:

This is the new process:

• Begin kneeling at the end of the *Sanctus *(same as before)
• Stand after the great Amen (same as before)
• Kneel after the Agnus Dei (same as before)
• All stand after the priest receives communion and remain standing until you have returned from Communion (new)
• Upon returning to your seat you may either sit or kneel or stand until after a period of silence.

I think the bishop should be commended. He is faithfully follow the Roman Missal’s “they may sit or kneel while the period of sacred silence after Communion is observed”. He is giving clear guidance on when this “period of sacred silence” begins. He is promoting a uniform posture that should (in the long run) lead to greater unity.

I see this as much better and more practical than an approach like: “Every individual has the right to choose whether they sit or stand or kneel. If they want to, they can sit for 10 seconds, stand for 10 seconds, kneel for 10 seconds and continue doing so until the Prayer After Communion.” This was never the intention of the Roman Missal.

Many who encouraged kneeling after an individual receives Communion until the Blessed Sacrament was put into the tabernacle would have had good intentions. But it was not what was in the 1975 or 2002 General Instruction of the Roman Missal (GIRM).

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

John Lilburne:

I think the bishop should be commended. He is faithfully follow the Roman Missal’s “they may sit or kneel while the period of sacred silence after Communion is observed”. He is giving clear guidance on when this “period of sacred silence” begins. He is promoting a uniform posture that should (in the long run) lead to greater unity.

I see this as much better and more practical than an approach like: “Every individual has the right to choose whether they sit or stand or kneel. If they want to, they can sit for 10 seconds, stand for 10 seconds, kneel for 10 seconds and continue doing so until the Prayer After Communion.” This was never the intention of the Roman Missal.

Many who encouraged kneeling after an individual receives Communion until the Blessed Sacrament was put into the tabernacle would have had good intentions. But it was not what was in the 1975 or 2002 General Instruction of the Roman Missal (GIRM).

“He is giving clear guidance on when this “period of sacred silence” begins. He is promoting a uniform posture that should (in the long run) lead to greater unity.”

What I don’t understand is why others insist that the local Bishop can say to Rome: “I don’t like or agree with your interpretation of your document, therefore I will intrepret it my own way.”

 

[LilyM]

m134e5:

It is a unique custom of the United States to kneel during and after communion. Perhaps the bishop was wanting to be in conformity with the rest of the world. I cannot kneel for very long at all, so often the only time I kneel in church is to receive communion.

No it isn’t! We certainly do it here in Australia - not with absolute uniformity but a majority would. I was taught to.

 

[MrS]

forthright:

At first,** I was slightly irritated by what seemed to be a reduction in the reverence shown at Mass**, but this seemed like a pointless change that I could go along with if just to be in obedience to my bishop. (From the announcement made, the bishops seems to be focusing on the "with a view to uniformity in gestures and postures during one and the same celebration" phrase - focusing on the need for the Body of Christ to act in unison with each other instead of independently from each other.)

I’m not going to make a big deal out of this, and I’m going to follow the wishes of the bishop, but I still feel disappointed. I keep thinking we need more reverence, not less. Any comments?

Irritation is proper I think…

And it should be aimed in two directions:

1- at the *heirarchy *who think less-reverance-uniformity is more “sale-able” than more-reverance-uniformity.

2- at the people in the pews who prefer more casual and more-of-me and less-of-Him. If fellowship is so important to them even during the Mass… don’t let the door hit you…