When the Mass is missing parts

[bflochica5]

We have a very elderly priest who says some Masses on the weekends at our parish; he lives in a retirement residence nearby. Several times recently I’ve noticed that he has accidentally skipped parts of the Mass. It seems as though he’s losing his place as he’s reading. Most recently, this past Sunday he skipped the Creed but did the Sanctus (and its preceding prayer) twice. I honestly feel really badly for the man; it’s sad to see old age doing this to him.

My question–what happens if, in the future, he were to skip crucial parts of the Eucharistic prayer, i.e., the words of consecration? It almost seems inevitable at this point, considering his recent history. I’m wondering, in such a scenario: 1) Should I go up to communion at all, or is it sacriligious or idolatrous if the bread isn’t actually Christ? 2) Would that Mass satisfy my Sunday obligation, or would I need to go again?

Thanks for helping me out with this. A fellow parishioner is wondering the same thing, so I’m asking on her behalf as well. We anxiously await your replies in an effort to do the (truly) right thing.

 

[passus]

This is delicate. Because of this priest’s situation, what’s going on wouldn’t formally be liturgical abuse because it is obviously not his intent to skip over these parts of the Mass.

If he skips over the words of consecration, then of course there has been no valid consecration. He needs to at least recite something that expresses the fact that “This is my body” and “This is my blood” for there to have been a consecration. He would probably have to be pretty senile to skip right over the words of institution, however, since they are the most important words of the Mass. If this ever happens, then I think he needs to be officially retired from his public ministry because he is not in a state where he can carry out the duty of the Church as a priest.

 

[LeroyCRHP]

Enjoy and honor this great servant who continues to serve as Priest when he is elderly. Have you talked with him about the mass does he need help at the retirement residence? How many alter servers does he have helping him?

I wish I knew canon law but would bet if a priest forgot some part of the mass it would not invalidate the mass.

 

[DixitDominus]

I honestly don’t think a priest could ever forget to say the Words of Consecration.That would be very, very bad if he did.

 

[Ghoti]

I honestly don’t think a priest could ever forget to say the Words of Consecration.That would be very, very bad if he did.

Out of carelessness or absent-mindedness, no. But when you start dealing with things like dementia, Alzheimer’s, mini-strokes, and other things that afflict the elderly, the brain becomes damaged. They are not at fault.

One of my uncles seems to be developing some form of dementia. He will tell the same story two or three times in a row. He will misunderstand a situation, and become extremely upset or angry over something he has misconstrued… and five minutes later will have utterly forgotten the incident.

A priest in such a (mental) circumstance could easily forget where the consecration is to go, or might believe he has already said it. Or might be wondering what the heck he is doing in front of all these people in the first place.

I don’t think the Lord will hold anything against him should he “forget”, anymore than He would a priest who, say, dropped the Precious Body because he suddenly had a seizure.

 

[bflochica5]

Out of carelessness or absent-mindedness, no. But when you start dealing with things like dementia, Alzheimer’s, mini-strokes, and other things that afflict the elderly, the brain becomes damaged. They are not at fault.

One of my uncles seems to be developing some form of dementia. He will tell the same story two or three times in a row. He will misunderstand a situation, and become extremely upset or angry over something he has misconstrued… and five minutes later will have utterly forgotten the incident.

A priest in such a (mental) circumstance could easily forget where the consecration is to go, or might believe he has already said it. Or might be wondering what the heck he is doing in front of all these people in the first place.

I don’t think the Lord will hold anything against him should he “forget”, anymore than He would a priest who, say, dropped the Precious Body because he suddenly had a seizure.

I don’t believe God will hold it against him either. I’ve found the priest to be a very nice, friendly man, actually, and one who is certainly well-intentioned. I just wonder about the particulars of how to respond within the context of the Mass, i.e., my questions above.

As a side note, it’s hard to listen to his homilies sometimes, too. They tend to meander from one topic to another, and have sometimes been inappropriate for the group he’s preaching to–such as when he did a homily for second graders at a First Reconciliation prep retreat, and he tried to make some kind of joke re: “confusing” the words “gin” and “sin.” The pun was obviously lost on 7-yr-olds who likely have no idea what gin is, and even if they did, it’s not exactly an appropriate subject for kids, especially during a homily. sigh

I should add that in addition to his old age, he is heavily medicated due to some other pain issue (I believe it might be a back problem), and that is exacerbating the situation. I’ve actually seen him doze off on the altar. The altar servers and/or deacon have had to nudge him to wake him up. And while I agree that perhaps someone ought to gently remove him from that portion of his ministry, that someone certainly isn’t me as a layperson.

Thus, I’m back to my original question–how do I as a layperson respond? Go to unconsecrated communion or not? And go to Mass twice or assume that the priest’s good intentions count for something with God so it’s still valid somehow?

 

[bilop]

We have a very elderly priest who says some Masses on the weekends at our parish; he lives in a retirement residence nearby. Several times recently I’ve noticed that he has accidentally skipped parts of the Mass. It seems as though he’s losing his place as he’s reading. Most recently, this past Sunday he skipped the Creed but did the Sanctus (and its preceding prayer) twice. I honestly feel really badly for the man; it’s sad to see old age doing this to him.

My question–what happens if, in the future, he were to skip crucial parts of the Eucharistic prayer, i.e., the words of consecration? It almost seems inevitable at this point, considering his recent history. I’m wondering, in such a scenario: 1) Should I go up to communion at all, or is it sacriligious or idolatrous if the bread isn’t actually Christ? 2) Would that Mass satisfy my Sunday obligation, or would I need to go again?

Thanks for helping me out with this. A fellow parishioner is wondering the same thing, so I’m asking on her behalf as well. We anxiously await your replies in an effort to do the (truly) right thing.

Perhaps you should have an altar server assist him; preferably an older teen or an adult. They could hold the Missal for him and point to the appropriate passage. You often see the MC do this for a Bishop or the Pope.

God Bless

 

[bflochica5]

Perhaps you should have an altar server assist him; preferably an older teen or an adult. They could hold the Missal for him and point to the appropriate passage. You often see the MC do this for a Bishop or the Pope.

God Bless

Unfortunately, our altar servers are all kids, mostly between 4th and 7th grade. I doubt they’d know where to look, and I’m afraid it would really offend the priest (who happens to be a monsignor, and who was given an additional title of honor just within the last 6 months or so). But thanks for the idea; I’ll keep it in mind.

 

[AJV]

We have a very elderly priest who says some Masses on the weekends at our parish; he lives in a retirement residence nearby. Several times recently I’ve noticed that he has accidentally skipped parts of the Mass. It seems as though he’s losing his place as he’s reading. Most recently, this past Sunday he skipped the Creed but did the Sanctus (and its preceding prayer) twice. I honestly feel really badly for the man; it’s sad to see old age doing this to him.

My question–what happens if, in the future, he were to skip crucial parts of the Eucharistic prayer, i.e., the words of consecration? It almost seems inevitable at this point, considering his recent history. I’m wondering, in such a scenario: 1) Should I go up to communion at all, or is it sacriligious or idolatrous if the bread isn’t actually Christ? 2) Would that Mass satisfy my Sunday obligation, or would I need to go again?

Thanks for helping me out with this. A fellow parishioner is wondering the same thing, so I’m asking on her behalf as well. We anxiously await your replies in an effort to do the (truly) right thing.

I think the appropriate thing to do if he forgets the Words is for someone (like an altar server) to go quietly up to him when he finishes reciting whatever text he is reciting and tell him quietly that he has forgotten the Consecration.

 

[MusicMan]

We had an older, retired priest helping out in our parish a few years back. His chemo treatments for cancer were causing some issues of forgetfulness. One Sunday, he skipped the Orate Fratres and the following prayer. Red flag in my mind went up to watch more closely (I knew he was struggling with memory). Following the elevation of the host, he chanted the intro for the Memorial Acclamation. I got up from the piano, went to him and quietly told him that he forgot to consecrate the wine. He argued with me a bit, so I took the Sacramentary, turned the page back, pointed at the right passage, and quietly, charitably, and forcefully said, “Father, just start here.”

At that moment, his chemo fog seemed to lift, and he said, “Yes, of course. Thank you.”

We made it through with out further incident.

 

[Brendan]

We have a 92 year old priest in residence at our parish. He commonly helps with confession ( it is offered before every Mass).

Because of his age, he is only scheduled to celebrate Mass either as a concelebration, or when one of the Deacons is present to assist.

He really is a marvel of dedication as a priest, and his homilies are some of the best I’ve ever heard, so I do hope God grants him more service to our parish