When the Pope dresses like a King...

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pprimeau1976 said:

I think so because Jesus was not being anointed because he was God, he was being anointed because he was preparing for his death. It all depends on its use, really. St. James instructs the early Christians to be anointed with oil when they were sick:
But back to what I said earlier about the temple priests clothing. What the high priest wore was pretty expensive. Also, the golden menorah (lampstand) and silver trumpets were pretty expensive as well. Yet, Jesus never condemned their use at all. **The only person in the bible who complained about things costing too much and saying that the money should be used for the poor was Judas./**QUOTE]​

We as Catholics —should keep in mind the above.
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I just finished reading the book on Mother Angelica by Raymond Arroyo.

She encountered a lot of complaints regarding the beauty and expense of the chapel she built. There were only 5-6 wealthy donors who gave specifically for that chapel (and they wish to stay anonymous!).

She also likened the beauty and expense to that of a living king – nothing was too good for Jesus! And, since everything belongs to Him anyway, shouldn’t we give Him the best of what He created? (Gold, diamonds, marble, etc.)

She also said how the atomosphere is there to create wonder and awe and foster prayer. When we see the beauty of what God has created in his precious metals and jewels, the beauty that is made by hands which He fashioned who are using their gifts to praise Him, it should inspire awe and praise of God! Mother Angelica said it’s much easier to pray and praise in a beautiful chapel with stained glass windows showing the life of Christ and the saints than it is in a warehouse.

I also LOVE the fact that the monstrance in her chapel has diamonds lining the inside of the monstrance – diamonds only Jesus in the Blessed Sacrament can “see”!
 
Walking_Home said:
pprimeau1976;3151093:
I think so because Jesus was not being anointed because he was God, he was being anointed because he was preparing for his death. It all depends on its use, really. St. James instructs the early Christians to be anointed with oil when they were sick:
But back to what I said earlier about the temple priests clothing. What the high priest wore was pretty expensive. Also, the golden menorah (lampstand) and silver trumpets were pretty expensive as well. Yet, Jesus never condemned their use at all. The only person in the bible who complained about things costing too much and saying that the money should be used for the poor was Judas./
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QUOTE]​

We as Catholics —should keep in mind the above.

Ain’t that the truth. 👍 👍

Along those lines, I’m actually quite surprised that no one’s brought up the Papal tiara, whose usage Paul VI did away with when he was elected Pope. Although JPII kept it in his coat of arms, Benedict replaced it with the three-band mitre for his heraldy.

I personally would have liked to see the Papal Tiara return; however, that thing looks rather heavy. Boy, can you hear the complaints if the Papal Tiara ever made a comeback? Of course, Benedict has brought things back like the ermine trimmed camauro and the ermine trimmed pastor’s cape that he wears for special occasions. I suppose PETA will launch a protest, though, because of the fur.
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Are there resources that show that the early church and the apostles followed the Jewish example re vestments etc?
 
Just_1_hr_a_wk said:
Are there resources that show that the early church and the apostles followed the Jewish example re vestments etc?
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Here’s your answer:

newadvent.org/cathen/15388a.htm

I hope this helps. Incidentally, it wasn’t until Pope Innocent III that the schema of colors (purple, green white, red and black) were defined.

Here’s an exeprt from the above quoted link:
Origin
The liturgical vestments have by no means remained the same from the founding of the Church until the present day. There is as great a difference between the vestments worn at the Holy Sacrifice in the pre-Constantinian period, and even in the following centuries, and those now customary at the services of the Church, as between the rite of the early Church and that of modern times. Just as the ceremonies that today surround the celebration of the Sacred Mysteries are the product of a long development, so are also the present liturgical vestments. It was sought at an earlier era to derive the Christian priestly dress from the vestments of the Jewish religion. Yet even a superficial comparison of the liturgical vestments of the New Covenant with those of the Old should have sufficed to show the error of such an opinion. The Christian vestments did not originate in the priestly dress of the Old Testament; they have, rather, developed from the secular dress of the Graeco-Roman world. The influence of the dress of the Mosaic cult upon the form of the Christian priestly dress can only conceded in this sense that the recollection of it must have made the use of liturgical garments specially reserved for the services of the Church appear not only entirely in keeping with the dignity of the mysteries of religion, but even necessary. This influence, however, was clearly general in character, not such as to make the Jewish priestly dress the prototype of the Christian.
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While the article notes that the vestments didn’t derive their origin from the Old Testament, the general idea about the priest dressing his best for God does exist.
 
SemperFidelis said:
As related to the subject at hand, I think this blog read is good for this argument:

unamsanctamcatholicam.blogspot.com/2007/12/how-much-land-does-church-own.html
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Interesting blog. I wonder if that pertains as to why, at least in my diocese, when an individual sues a particular parish over property issues, that person can’t sue the entire diocese. I found out that each parish is it’s own and whatever happens in the parish for good or ill is not supposed to affect the diocese as a whole.

Same with our Cathedral. Even though it is the church for the entire diocese, it receives very little funds from the diocese. It must make due with what comes in from visitors and a relatively small parish (600 households).

Until this thread, I never actually thought of how the “wealth” of the Church is distributed and used.
 
Johndigger said:
The Pope is a King. In fact, he is the only absolute Monarch left in Europe as he is King of the Vatican City.

The Pope’s finery is a symbol of the honour bestowed on the Papacy by Jesus Christ.

Being materialistic* doesn’t refer to being rich*, it refers to how we view money. The way we need to look at wealth needs to be properly ordered.

We cannot have money as our God. When people do this it is materialism.

Someone can be poor and materialistic. Someone can be rich and non-materialistic.

JD
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People here have justified the Pope’s garments by saying they are effectively dedicated to Christ and His Church, not to the Pope personally.

In that case, is the Pope effectively ‘dressing up’ as Christ? Not in a sacriligeous way you understand, but in the same way that an actor in a passion play might, as a kind of living symbol of Christ.

Is the Pope a living ikon? There’s probably a whole thread in that one.
 
Just a couple of thoughts. The Holy Father’s gold ring is not worth “tens of thousands” unless it is made of unobtainium and not gold…even the “finest gold”, whatever that is, gold is gold. The staff…the last time I saw it appeared to be silver and not “solid gold”. Be that as it may be, his acoutrements are befitting the leader of the true religion in my opinion and all the hoopla about his clothing is just…well hoopla.
I am not embarrassed or scandalized by it in the least. I am proud to be a Catholic…proud of the beauty and majesty and pomp and ceremony and poetry and history and mystery and eternity of the Holy Church founded by Christ Himself. There I said it and I’m glad…
 
Just out of interest, has there ever been a Franciscan/Cappuchin Pope? If so, did he still wear all the Papal regalia?
 
Maybe the Pope shops on eBay. He could get fake jewelry that looks real for pennies.
 
<<A golden shepherd’s crook, inlaid with many precious gems, handcrafted by the world’s finest jewelers, is worth millions. >>

Since the Pope does NOT carry a shepherd’s crook, you see how ignorant of the issues the writer is.
 
ALLGIRLS said:
You know, I don’t give a thought to how much the Pope’s clothes are worth. How did this guy find out that his clothes are sewn w/ gold thread (if that’s even true, and I doubt it is)?
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I can just about guarantee that his clothes are NOT made of gold. There is something called, at times, “cloth of gold”. It is very beautiful, and it has a sheen like gold: silk.
Yup. I have any number of shirts/blouses made of that lovely stuff, and they are not expensive (although I did 😉 pick mine up at consignment shops).
It is called cloth of gold because it is so greatly loved by those of us who love natural fibers. (It is also tough as steel; if you treat it with any degree of respect, it will be around for your grandchildren).
From the look, I can tell you that there are some very lovely silken pieces of clothing that the pope wears…which were actually considered kind of “middle class” when most were made, in the years before manmade fibers. The really expensive stuff back then, was made of linen; desperately poor people wore wool all 4 seasons.
Just_1_hr_a_wk said:
I also have been involved in getting vestments for friends who did not have funds for their parish ministries so I have assorted catalogs on basics and have seen the cost for yard goods if one wants to sew their own. The savings by making simple changes is not insignificant and would be more in the practice what you preach way of thinking.
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You know, I could never afford to have clothes made up from yard goods. I buy them second-hand, all made. It’s cheaper.
The pope does me 👍 one better: He wears hand-me-downs, as has all ready been pointed out…So, at this point, his clothes cost nothing.🤷

I think the guy in the article needs to go figure out what **he **spends every year for clothes sometime.:rolleyes: He just:rolleyes: might come up with a:rolleyes: slightly higher figure than $000.00.

PS:
The shoes are probably his, & new.
They are probably not cheap.
But I bet they are a heckuva lot cheaper than treatments from a chiropodist.
 
This is funny…again more anti-catholic news…hahaha
I guess they can’t really find something wrong with the Church of God that they have to plainly lie and exagerate. 🤷

O well! sometimes things like these are what reassure me that the Catholic church is the true church😛
 
Zooey said:
I can just about guarantee that his clothes are NOT made of gold. There is something called, at times, “cloth of gold”. It is very beautiful, and it has a sheen like gold: silk.
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That’s not true “Cloth of Gold”. Many vestments are made of thread wrapped in gold and then woven with silk warp. It’s heavy, and expensive. Some popes have used vestments of this precious material.

Many silver vestments are made the same way, but with silver.

Also, some cloth-of-gold uses fine wires instead of wrapped threads. It’s not used often, and usually only for trims; again, it’s used for the weft only. Again, the warp is usually silk.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloth_of_gold
needlenthread.com/2007/02/medieval-textiles-what-is-cloth-of-gold.html
bentonandjohnson.com/info/history.htm

Having helped dominican friars vest in some old cloth-of-gold vestments, and some old cloth-of-silver vestments, they are heavy, do not bend well, and are in fact metal and silk.
 
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