When the priest is gone...(Liturgical abuse!)

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AuntMartha

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Hi,

I have a question about when a priest is unable to say Mass. Here’s what happened:

I have been going to 1-3 daily Masses per week for the last month or so. I usually go to the 8:30 am Mass, but the past two weeks and into next week, I have been going earlier to a 7:00 Mass at a different church because of my daughter’s camp carpooling. This Monday at the other church, the priest explained that there would be no Mass for the rest of the week, due to a priest conference that the Fathers would be attending. They said there would be a prayer time, and he may have said something about the Eucharist, but I didn’t quite understand it, plus I had already decided I’d rather attend a Mass than a prayer service, so I wasn’t listening all that well.

Anyway, today I decided to go to a different church for morning Mass - one that I have never been to before. Apparently the priests at this parish were also at the conference. But what they decided to do in place of a real Mass has me very concerned. They did the following:
  1. A woman began the Mass, the way a prioest normally begins with the Sign of the Cross and the Penitential Rite.
  2. While the first two Scripture readings were done by a man who I presume was authorized to do so, the Gospel was read by this woman who started off the Mass.
  3. This same woman gave the Homily.
  4. While this woman wasn’t “presiding” over the Mass, she was sitting in the chair that the preiest sits in during the Mass.
  5. She got the Hosts out of the Tabernacle and distributed them for Communion (but maybe that’s permitted if she is an Extraordinary Minister, or is it Eucharistic Minister?, and if the priest had blessed them that morning?).
Was this all as bad as I think it was?

I was so concerned, I didn’t go to Communion, just knelt and prayed. I had no idea if the Communion was licit - was it? And what is the correct thing for a church to do if the priest is away?

Please advise!

Thanks.
 
What you attended was a communion service.

This is what the hyper-scrutiny for liturgical abuses has caused.

As there was no consecration, there was no Mass.

The communion service is a prayer service where the Eucharist that was consecrated at an earlier Mass is distributed.

It has the same structure as the Mass, but again lacks the consecration.

The readings are the same as what the daily Mass would have and there is a talk given on the readings but it is not a Homily as there is no Homily at a daily Mass (usually).
 
Someone brought this exact situation up yesterday on Catholic Answers. Check the archives for Jimmy Akin’s answer.

The liturgical norms for communion services are, at large, currently in dispute.

Josh
 
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AuntMartha:
Hi,

I have a question about when a priest is unable to say Mass. Here’s what happened:

I have been going to 1-3 daily Masses per week for the last month or so. I usually go to the 8:30 am Mass, but the past two weeks and into next week, I have been going earlier to a 7:00 Mass at a different church because of my daughter’s camp carpooling. This Monday at the other church, the priest explained that there would be no Mass for the rest of the week, due to a priest conference that the Fathers would be attending. They said there would be a prayer time, and he may have said something about the Eucharist, but I didn’t quite understand it, plus I had already decided I’d rather attend a Mass than a prayer service, so I wasn’t listening all that well.

Anyway, today I decided to go to a different church for morning Mass - one that I have never been to before. Apparently the priests at this parish were also at the conference. But what they decided to do in place of a real Mass has me very concerned. They did the following:
  1. A woman began the Mass, the way a prioest normally begins with the Sign of the Cross and the Penitential Rite.
  2. While the first two Scripture readings were done by a man who I presume was authorized to do so, the Gospel was read by this woman who started off the Mass.
  3. This same woman gave the Homily.
  4. While this woman wasn’t “presiding” over the Mass, she was sitting in the chair that the preiest sits in during the Mass.
  5. She got the Hosts out of the Tabernacle and distributed them for Communion (but maybe that’s permitted if she is an Extraordinary Minister, or is it Eucharistic Minister?, and if the priest had blessed them that morning?).
Was this all as bad as I think it was?

I was so concerned, I didn’t go to Communion, just knelt and prayed. I had no idea if the Communion was licit - was it? And what is the correct thing for a church to do if the priest is away?

Please advise!

Thanks.
Click to expand...
This was a Liturgy of the Word with the distribution of Holy Communion and is correct.
 
Thanks all.

As you may know, I have just recently returned to the RCC and was never very knowledgable about it when I was younger, so I didn’t know about these different types of services. I thought it was some woman playing “priest” at what was supposed to be a regular Mass. So that’s why I was shocked. I’m glad to know this was above board.
 
Aunt Martha - RE 4. While this woman wasn’t “presiding” over the Mass, she was sitting in the chair that the priest sits in during the Mass.

This is an abuse. A deacon may sit in the presider’s chair in the absence of a priest - during a Communion Service. However, a layman or woman may not sit in that chair under any circumstances.

Or at least that is what the Office of Worship at the diocese tells me.
 
Yes, this is an abuse, at my church the priest is off on Wednesdays so our deacon does the prayer service. This would be acceptable. A lay person doing the communion service would not be acceptable. If I ever get to be a priest you can rest assured that wouldn’t happen at my parish 🙂
 
Goodness Me!!!

Why not have a group saying of the rosary or similar rather than such a farce!!!😦
 
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ByzCath:
What you attended was a communion service.

This is what the hyper-scrutiny for liturgical abuses has caused.

As there was no consecration, there was no Mass.

The communion service is a prayer service where the Eucharist that was consecrated at an earlier Mass is distributed.

It has the same structure as the Mass, but again lacks the consecration.

The readings are the same as what the daily Mass would have and there is a talk given on the readings but it is not a Homily as there is no Homily at a daily Mass (usually).
Click to expand...
BzCath my man,
You are turning into a horse of a different color buddy.
You know that the woman should not have been sitting in the presider chair.
You also know she was not suppose to give the homily.
You must be letting the dregs of the Rochester diocese get to you.
Too bad.
Contemplative

I am not hyper sensitive (ridiculous)
Call me - not passive 🙂
 
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AuntMartha:
Thanks all.

As you may know, I have just recently returned to the RCC and was never very knowledgable about it when I was younger, so I didn’t know about these different types of services. I thought it was some woman playing “priest” at what was supposed to be a regular Mass. So that’s why I was shocked. I’m glad to know this was above board.
Click to expand...
I is amazing to me that so many reject what the Church herself has determined to be acceptable. As has been said before there is;

What people think the Church teaches.
What people would like the Church to teach.
What the Church actually teaches.

This also applies to what people think the Laws and Norms are.
What they want the Laws and Norms to be.
Then there is what the Laws and Norms actually say.

See: usccb.org/liturgy/q%26a/general/weekday.shtml
 
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contemplative:
BzCath my man,
You are turning into a horse of a different color buddy.
You know that the woman should not have been sitting in the presider chair.
You also know she was not suppose to give the homily.
You must be letting the dregs of the Rochester diocese get to you.
Too bad.
Contemplative

I am not hyper sensitive (ridiculous)
Call me - not passive 🙂
Click to expand...
I am sorry but you are wrong.

This was a Communion Service. There was no Mass.

The talk was a refelection, not a Homily as 1) Homilies are only done at Mass and 2) Homlies are not normaly given at weekday Masses, but then this was not a Mass.

Now your links are misleading.
More reading about weekday Communion Services here ewtn.com/library/Liturgy/zlitur23.htm
Click to expand...
and here
Click to expand...
usccb.org/liturgy/q&a/general/weekday.shtml
Click to expand...
Your first link is a reprint of a question about attending a Communion Service on a Sunday instead of a Mass.

That is not what happened here, this Communion Service was on a weekday. We have an obligation to attend Mass on Sundays and Holy Days, not on weekdays.

Your second link deals with Daily Mass, once again, this was not a Mass!

Try this link, usccb.org/laity/laymin/faq.shtml

Goto question number 5. Better yet, here it is. (underlined and bold emphasis is added)
  1. What can lay ministers do in relation to the Mass?
    Lay ministers have long been assisting in the celebration of the Liturgy. They have been servers and musicians and choir members for centuries. Since Vatican II, lay ministers have participated by reading the Scripture, reading the general petitions, and serving as extraordinary ministers of communion. Only the ordained priest or bishop can celebrate the Eucharist. In the absence of a priest, a lay minister may lead a Communion service; but that is not Mass.
Again, a Communion Sevice is vaild and the Church states that it should be done only in extraordiany situtations as this was as the priest was gone to a conference. In this case this is not something that happens every day.

Again, as I said, this hyper-awarness of liturgical abuses has created an environment of seeing abuses where they are not occuring.

And my last response to contemplative is that maybe it is you that has let the Diocese of Rochester affect you so that now you see abuse everywhere.

And just so you know, I do not belong to the Diocese of Rochester nor do I attend/belong to any parishes in Rochester. I belong to the Eparchy of Passiac and attend a parish that is part of the Eparchy of Newton as there is no Byzantine-Ruthenian Catholic Church in Rochester.
 
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