When to Call Folks Protestant?

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Entwhistler

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Protestants, as the name would suggest, are those who protest against the Catholic Church. But how far does that Protest have to go before they are actually called Protestants?

For instance, the Orthodox are protesting in a sense since they aren’t in communion with Rome. You could also say that there are some Catholics who are protesting against the Church’s position on Abortion, gay marriage, contraception, etc.

Also, some “Protestants” don’t even understand that they are protesting. Take your average evangelical who doesn’t know his history. He just goes to church most every Sunday. He has never heard about the Reformation. Nor does he care. He doesn’t know that his church split off at some point from some other Protestant Church. He doesn’t protest against the Catholic Church. He just goes about his everyday life never thinking about it.

Now Catholics would call him a Protestant because of the history of his church. But he doesn’t begrudge Catholics about anything. He just isn’t one.

So can the term Protestant even be used for him? And what about for the Orthodox?
 
A Protestant is any non-Catholic and non-Orthodox (Eastern or Oriental) Christian, regardless of how liturgically inclined the specific denomination is.

The Council of Trent rightly condemned the errors of the Reformation, but Vatican II is also correct in pointing out that modern Protestants are not responsible for the Reformation and have access to grace and salvation through Baptism, faith in Christ, prayer and religious life.
 
Entwhistler said:
Protestants, as the name would suggest, are those who protest against the Catholic Church. But how far does that Protest have to go before they are actually called Protestants?
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Many modern evangelicals will say they are “non-denominatinal” and they are not “protesting anything” however they embrace doctrines developed during the Reformation. They are Protestant whether they realize it or not.
Entwhistler said:
For instance, the Orthodox are protesting in a sense since they aren’t in communion with Rome.
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The relationship with the Orthodox is better described as schismatic. They did not create any new or different doctrines, and they have the marks of the Church, and valid sacraments.
Entwhistler said:
You could also say that there are some Catholics who are protesting against the Church’s position on Abortion, gay marriage,
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If the polls are accurate, the majority of American persons identifying themselves as Catholic have actually become Protestant but do not know it.
Entwhistler said:
Also, some “Protestants” don’t even understand that they are protesting. Take your average evangelical who doesn’t know his history. He just goes to church most every Sunday. He has never heard about the Reformation. Nor does he care. He doesn’t know that his church split off at some point from some other Protestant Church. He doesn’t protest against the Catholic Church. He just goes about his everyday life never thinking about it.
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You are right, but it is the doctrines embraced by these persons that make them Protestants. Like the Catholics that are protesting, their ignorance of their condition does not change it.
 
Entwhistler said:
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Now Catholics would call him a Protestant because of the history of his church. But he doesn’t begrudge Catholics about anything. He just isn’t one.

So can the term Protestant even be used for him? And what about for the Orthodox?
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The Catholic Church has titles for two categories of non-Catholic Christians, Christians being only those with valid baptism:
  • particular or local Churches, or sister churches of the particular Catholic Churches, for those with valid apostolic succession, and
  • Christian Communities or ecclessial Communities for those without valid apostolic succession.
http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/c...ith_doc_20070629_responsa-quaestiones_en.html
 
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Wannano said:
Would you mind elaborating on this?
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The CC is not a democracy, and the doctrines cannot be changed. They are received by us from Jesus, through the Aposltes. People will either accept them, or reject them, but the idea that the teachings of Christ should be conformed to modern social practices or political ideas is a fantasy.
 
Entwhistler said:
Protestants, as the name would suggest, are those who protest against the Catholic Church.
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That is not where the term Protestant originates from.
In 1526, a meeting of the Reichstag (in practice, a form of German imperial parliament) issued the Recess of 27 August, stating that each individual government within the empire could decide which religion they wished to follow. It would have been a triumph of religious freedom, had it lasted. However, a new Reichstag which met in 1529 was not so amenable to the Lutherans, and the Emperor canceled the Recess. In response, the followers of the new church issued the ‘Protest’, which protested against the cancellation on April 19th.
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Protestantism was named from a protest not against the Catholic Church, but for protesting against the government’s attempt to limit their religious freedom.
Entwhistler said:
But how far does that Protest have to go before they are actually called Protestants?

For instance, the Orthodox are protesting in a sense since they aren’t in communion with Rome. You could also say that there are some Catholics who are protesting against the Church’s position on Abortion, gay marriage, contraception, etc.
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Protestantism began in the 16th century with the Reform movement initiated by Luther (though there were obviously Western movements before that anticipated the Reformation, such as William Tyndale and Jan Hus).

The East-West Schism that created distinct Catholic and Orthodox communions was solidified by the 11th century. Not only was it earlier, but the theological issues at question were very different. The Reformers were interested in ideas such as justification by faith alone and Scripture alone as the final authority for doctrine and church teaching. However, such questions were asked within a Western theological context. I’m sure the entire controversy looked quite insane from an Eastern Orthodox perspective.
Entwhistler said:
Now Catholics would call him a Protestant because of the history of his church. But he doesn’t begrudge Catholics about anything. He just isn’t one.
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He’s a Protestant if his or his church’s theology is part of the Western Christian tradition and shaped through the lens of Sola Fide and Sola Scriptura.
Entwhistler said:
So can the term Protestant even be used for him? And what about for the Orthodox?
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For the “average evangelical”, yes he is a Protestant. For the Orthodox, no.

For non-Trinitarian varieties of Christianity, such as Mormonism and Jehovah’s Witnesses and Christian Unitarianism, though they often evolved from fringe Protestantism, they are generally considered to have moved outside of the broad theological parameters of Protestantism by denying one or all of the Trinity, Sola Fide or Sola Scriptura.
 
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Entwhistler said:
Also, some “Protestants” don’t even understand that they are protesting. Take your average evangelical who doesn’t know his history. He just goes to church most every Sunday. He has never heard about the Reformation. Nor does he care. He doesn’t know that his church split off at some point from some other Protestant Church. He doesn’t protest against the Catholic Church. He just goes about his everyday life never thinking about it.
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I don’t believe it.

I’m around Protestants of many stripes, all day long and for most of my life. I’ve not met one yet who does not have an opinion on the Catholic Church, as false as his understanding might be.

That’s just a fact. I’ve spoken to Protestants, here, who claim that they are no longer protesting the Catholic Church. But after you get into detail with them on their beliefs, it is obvious they reject any idea of a sovereign Church established by Jesus Christ.
 
Entwhistler said:
Protestants, as the name would suggest, are those who protest against the Catholic Church. But how far does that Protest have to go before they are actually called Protestants?
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That’s not what Protestant means.
The original protest was a formal protest against civil authorities at the Second Diet at Speyer in 1529. It was not a protest against the Church.
The use of the term today is a general discription or lose grouping of western Christian communions not in communion with the Bishop of Rome. Beyond that, it has nothing to do with doctrine
 
Entwhistler said:
Also, some “Protestants” don’t even understand that they are protesting. Take your average evangelical who doesn’t know his history. He just goes to church most every Sunday. He has never heard about the Reformation. Nor does he care. He doesn’t know that his church split off at some point from some other Protestant Church. He doesn’t protest against the Catholic Church. He just goes about his everyday life never thinking about it.
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I’d like to take a moment to protest your condescending tone.

The fact is American Evangelicals are not Protestant in the historic sense, since they were not present for the formal protest.
By and large, they theologically have little in common with the Evangelical Catholics (Lutherans) who protested at Speyer. They generally don’t hold to a sacramental theology, as an example.

It is interesting, also, that the most recent protests have to do with Catholics, joined by others, protesting the HHS Mandate, and the requirement that Catholics participate in same gender "marriages ".
Thanks for being protestant. 😉
 
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I did not mean to be condescending. Although, in retrospect that post does look a little that way. I apologize.
 
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Believe it, that’s exactly how I was raised.

I had exactly zero opinion of the Catholic church until after my wife and I got married.

I just always went to church on Sunday, never thought about who was Catholic, Lutheran, whatever. We were all just Christians trying to get to heaven.
 
Entwhistler said:
You could also say that there are some Catholics who are protesting against the Church’s position on Abortion, gay marriage,
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If the polls are accurate, the majority of American persons identifying themselves as Catholic have actually become Protestant but do not know it.
[/quote]

Don’t be too quick to identify those who don’t agree with, or are acting in a different manner with, non-doctrinal teachings of the RCC. I’d say the vast majority of those who write about the actions and directions of Catholics vis-a-vis the teachings of the church, do not fully understand the nature of Catholic teaching. Most of the articles such as cited here are at best, half truths, at worst ignorant deception.
 
Dacinom said:
As was mentioned, I think this could be a squabble over particular words.

In my opinion there’s been a culture shift. Years ago people strongly identified as perhaps a Methodist, Presbyterian, Lutheran, Baptist etc. However currently the people I meet routinely identify as Christian and nothing more.

I think the rise of non-denominational churches has contributed to this shift. I would even venture a guess that the word “Protestant” (being used much less) is on it’s way out over the next 50-100 years.
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Maybe this shift is North American? In Europe, there is a unification that occurred (from 1973) and continues, of Lutheran, Reformed, and some Methodist, and in dialogue with Anglican, Baptist, and Orthodox. They recognize the ordination and ministry of women ministers. That union is called the Community of Protestant Churches in Europe.
 
"But, of course, there must be divisions (heresies) among you so that you who have God’s approval will be recognized! " I Cor. 11:19
 
De_Maria said:
I’m around Protestants of many stripes, all day long and for most of my life. I’ve not met one yet who does not have an opinion on the Catholic Church, as false as his understanding might be.

That’s just a fact. I’ve spoken to Protestants, here, who claim that they are no longer protesting the Catholic Church. But after you get into detail with them on their beliefs, it is obvious they reject any idea of a sovereign Church established by Jesus Christ.
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Disagreeing about something is not the same as protesting. While there are those that publicly call out the Catholic Church as a false church and have an active ongoing protest (so to speak) the vast majority of American Evangelicalism hardly ever talks about or preaches against Catholicism.

So if you ask the average American Evangelical if they agree with Catholic doctrine they will say no, if they agreed with it they would become Catholic. But you don’t see them standing outside Catholic churches holding up signs or going around trying to convince Catholics to not be Catholics. If asked, they may say this is what I disagree with and why but they don’t actively try to convert someone from Catholicism to Evangelism at least not anymore than they do try to convert anyone else to faith in Christ. Keep in mind, we ask people in our own churches if they know Jesus and have placed their faith in Him alone for their salvation. We ask our own people if they died today would they go to heaven or hell. If we ask someone who is Catholic those questions we are not treating them any different than anyone else.

From my experience those that do “Protest” are extreme fundamentalist or are intellectual Presbyterians/Reformed. The James White, John MacCarthur and R.C. Sproul types have more to say about Catholicism than any preachers I’ve ever heard, and that is only a small amount of what they preach on.

In my own area the local Catholic church is a member of our ministerial alliance that helps provide food, clothing, housing, furniture, and utility payments for those in need. When the church I attend started an English as a Second Language class for Hispanics in the area a few members of the local Catholic church volunteered with no objection from my evangelical church. That is not exactly “protesting” the Catholic church.
 
joeybaggz said:
Don’t be too quick to identify those who don’t agree with, or are acting in a different manner with, non-doctrinal teachings of the RCC.
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If you think that the respect for human life from conception to natural death is not “doctrinal” then you have not read your catechism.

If you think the Sacraments, Real Presence in the Eucharist and need for confession /state of grace to receive are not doctrinal, then you missed the “teachings of the RCC”.

I agree that most of the writers/reporters do not understand the faith, nor do most of the Catholics, especially those who are lapsed.
 
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