When to call it quits with debating?

[Irish_Becca]

I hope I am posting in the right spot. I wanted to ask advice about when to stop bothering debating a group of people. I frequent a website for mothers of all different religions and backgrounds, and we have a debate board. I have participated in numerous debates about gay marriage, Catholicism, atheism, abortion, etc. All the big issues. I always thought I was doing a pretty good job and got along pretty well with everyone.

I have started numerous debates on gay marriage, and today I asked, “If homosexuals want gay marriage for benefits, tax breaks, health insurance, then why do they need more than civil unions?” Whew, I got my head bitten off. I was called hateful, homophobic, mean, and of course, accused of trying to push my beliefs on everyone. Oh, and I’m discriminating because my religious beliefs are against gay marriage - all things I’m sure lots of people on this site have experienced.

I’m not shy about my beliefs my any stretch, but now I just don’t feel like I should put up with that kind of treatment. It’s not enjoyable for me anymore. However, I do think I have made some good points and wonder if I should stick around for anyone who might be receptive. Do you have any advice? When do you say enough is enough? Thank you very much.

 

[Safe_Eagle]

I remember reading about St. Francis La Sale’ he used to debate with others of the Protestant faith and in a very calm way he would put forth the Catholic postion and leave it at that. I think we get the idea we need to win the argument all the time. In all that we say we should send it forth with a prayer. And let God’s Grace handle the rest. The obstinate will stay that way until Grace comes there way. It seems frustrating I know. I have a brother who is a staunch Protestant. I hit him with the facts and I just see the words hitting his forehead and going up and over the top of his head. I just try and keep a smile on my face and tell him I love him and when the subject comes up again I just try and put forth the Catholic position again. I’m getting the feeling some of it is sinking in. So my advise is don’t let it take your peace. Just say what you can leave it at that.

 

[tabcom]

I do think I have made some good points and wonder if I should stick around for anyone who might be receptive. Do you have any advice? When do you say enough is enough?

**If the Holy Spirit is working through you during your debates, your work is already done. Regarding knowing when to throw in the towel, I often lean on Titus 3:10 when discussing Biblical issues.

Titus 3: 9
Avoid foolish arguments, genealogies, rivalries, and quarrels about the law, for they are useless and futile.
10
After a first and second warning, break off contact with a heretic,
11
realizing that such a person is perverted and sinful and stands self-condemned.

**

 

[Randy_Carson]

I hope I am posting in the right spot. I wanted to ask advice about when to stop bothering debating a group of people. I frequent a website for mothers of all different religions and backgrounds, and we have a debate board. I have participated in numerous debates about gay marriage, Catholicism, atheism, abortion, etc. All the big issues. I always thought I was doing a pretty good job and got along pretty well with everyone.

I have started numerous debates on gay marriage, and today I asked, “If homosexuals want gay marriage for benefits, tax breaks, health insurance, then why do they need more than civil unions?” Whew, I got my head bitten off. I was called hateful, homophobic, mean, and of course, accused of trying to push my beliefs on everyone. Oh, and I’m discriminating because my religious beliefs are against gay marriage - all things I’m sure lots of people on this site have experienced.

I’m not shy about my beliefs my any stretch, but now I just don’t feel like I should put up with that kind of treatment. It’s not enjoyable for me anymore. However, I do think I have made some good points and wonder if I should stick around for anyone who might be receptive. Do you have any advice? When do you say enough is enough? Thank you very much.

Never give up!

IB, Jesus endured the cross…the treatment you have received in nothing by comparison. You are doing a fine job and you should expect such treatment from unbelievers.

This is a lengthy quote, but I hope it is encouraging. Paul wrote:

What anyone else dares to boast about—I am speaking as a fool—I also dare to boast about. 22Are they Hebrews? So am I. Are they Israelites? So am I. Are they Abraham’s descendants? So am I. 23Are they servants of Christ? (I am out of my mind to talk like this.) I am more. I have worked much harder, been in prison more frequently, been flogged more severely, and been exposed to death again and again. 24Five times I received from the Jews the forty lashes minus one. 25Three times I was beaten with rods, once I was stoned, three times I was shipwrecked, I spent a night and a day in the open sea, 26I have been constantly on the move. I have been in danger from rivers, in danger from bandits, in danger from my own countrymen, in danger from Gentiles; in danger in the city, in danger in the country, in danger at sea; and in danger from false brothers. 27I have labored and toiled and have often gone without sleep; I have known hunger and thirst and have often gone without food; I have been cold and naked. 28Besides everything else, I face daily the pressure of my concern for all the churches. 29Who is weak, and I do not feel weak? Who is led into sin, and I do not inwardly burn?

Your heart burns for the people who need to hear the truth. Do not stop preaching it to them.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

I hope I am posting in the right spot. I wanted to ask advice about when to stop bothering debating a group of people. I frequent a website for mothers of all different religions and backgrounds, and we have a debate board. I have participated in numerous debates about gay marriage, Catholicism, atheism, abortion, etc. All the big issues. I always thought I was doing a pretty good job and got along pretty well with everyone.

When the other people stop listening.

 

[rciadan]

I remember reading about St. Francis La Sale’ he used to debate with others of the Protestant faith and in a very calm way he would put forth the Catholic postion and leave it at that. I think we get the idea we need to win the argument all the time. In all that we say we should send it forth with a prayer. And let God’s Grace handle the rest. The obstinate will stay that way until Grace comes there way. It seems frustrating I know. I have a brother who is a staunch Protestant. I hit him with the facts and I just see the words hitting his forehead and going up and over the top of his head. I just try and keep a smile on my face and tell him I love him and when the subject comes up again I just try and put forth the Catholic position again. I’m getting the feeling some of it is sinking in. So my advise is don’t let it take your peace. Just say what you can leave it at that.

Amen.

You may also remind people that to be discriminating is actually a good thing! Everyone does it. Anytime someone states a preference for one thing, they discriminate against something. To disctiminate is to choose and choices are unavoidable.

So you see, it is not a question of descriminating at all for we all do it. It is a question of how we discriminate. I don’t know about you, but I will discriminate in favor of God and His laws anytime.

 

[Lrning]

I’m not shy about my beliefs my any stretch, but now I just don’t feel like I should put up with that kind of treatment. It’s not enjoyable for me anymore. However, I do think I have made some good points and wonder if I should stick around for anyone who might be receptive. Do you have any advice? When do you say enough is enough? Thank you very much.

One thing I always try to keep in mind are all those that read posts, but don’t necessarily respond. I spent a great deal of time lurking myself before I ever started posting. If you keep your responses charitable and faithful, you may be having a far greater effect than you will ever know. And if you’ve failed in maintaining charity, a posted apology can do wonders.

 

[Syele]

I believe God prepares people to be ready to hear things at certian times. I do not debate anywhere online that is not “meant” for debating unless someone asks to discuss something. In the same way, in real life I only debate if someone wants to debate. If they aren’t ready to debate or discuss it, you will just come off as belligerent and unapproachable for when they DO want to discuss it.

 

[Irish_Becca]

Thank you so much for your responses! This is all wonderful advice and I will be praying about it. Thank you again.

 

[emarc]

Merry Christmas to all. I have had my share of on line debates with our Christian Protestant brothers. In good faith I signed in the In Touch Ministry website hosted by Charles Stanley. I was not well grounded in my Catholic faith at the time and was hoping I would strenghtened my Christian faith if I joined. But after a while I was disturbed by their “eternal security”, sola fide, sola scriptura and other doctrines which forced me to look inside me and study CCC. I offered them what the true Catholic beliefs are because of their many misrepresentations and utter ignorance of what we believe. Many were hostile even accusing me of shaking up the faith of new babes who joined. Once the debate turned away from the real issue, I just stopped. I still could sign in in the website and each time I read their attacks on the Catholic faith, they know I would be there to defend it. When the arguments become personal, that’s the time I call it quits. I still am happy because I know deep in my heart that I have planted a seed of truth in their minds and hearts. I pray that the Holy Spirit takes over.
emarc

 

[Veritas41]

One thing I always try to keep in mind are all those that read posts, but don’t necessarily respond. I spent a great deal of time lurking myself before I ever started posting. If you keep your responses charitable and faithful, you may be having a far greater effect than you will ever know. And if you’ve failed in maintaining charity, a posted apology can do wonders.

Very true --good advice!

 

[Joseph_Smith]

The point to debating is to cause both parties to grow in truth and understanding. Example the catholics pray to saints that have long passed over this is held in error by the none catholic community. Why is this held in error. Because we hold the scripture as being in authority over our conduct. A guide or a map in other words. Also it is writen yea shall have no gods before God. and it is also writen yea are gods. thus the conclusion is that you should not pray to any one other then God. In the fact the letters to the hebrews declares Jesus in fact has become the eternal high priest that makes right our prayer to God. It is futher shown that Christ was made high priest with a oath before His father for all time. And he is the one mediator between God and man. When Jesus was ask how to pray he said our Father. So in conculsion debating should be used to educate and teach not to be a pain or a pest. But debate should also shake your confort seat and drive to into the word of God so you can gain assurence from the truth of the word of God alone. Our faith is not in any man or religion it is in God and his goodness and his faithfullness. yeat not with standing men error which is human. In debating we should seek only the overall good result to bringing people into the truth of Gods love and the light of the truth.

 

[Nan_S]

The point to debating is to cause both parties to grow in truth and understanding…So in conculsion debating should be used to educate and teach not to be a pain or a pest. But debate should also shake your confort seat and drive to into the word of God so you can gain assurence from the truth of the word of God alone. Our faith is not in any man or religion it is in God and his goodness and his faithfullness. yeat not with standing men error which is human. In debating we should seek only the overall good result to bringing people into the truth of Gods love and the light of the truth.

Goodness me, Joseph. You’ve been a member of this forum for almost a week and you still haven’t found the Catholic Answers Library? Please take some time to look it over. Your questions are answered there, in full, with very extensive scripture references.

Nan

 

[Randy_Carson]

The point to debating is to cause both parties to grow in truth and understanding. Example the catholics pray to saints that have long passed over this is held in error by the none catholic community. Why is this held in error.

Joseph-

Catholics maintain communion with saints who have died because Jesus taught us to.

---

Jesus teaches from the Old Testament
“But in the account of the bush, even Moses showed that the dead rise, for he calls the Lord ‘the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.’ He is not the God of the dead, but of the living, for to him all are alive.” (Luke 20:37-38)

Jesus teaches by parable
"There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day. At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores and longing to eat what fell from the rich man’s table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores. "The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham’s side. The rich man also died and was buried. In hell, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. So he called to him, ‘Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.’ But Abraham replied, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been fixed, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.’ He answered, ‘Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my father’s house, for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.’ Abraham replied, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.’ ‘No, father Abraham,’ he said, ‘but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.’ He said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.’ (Luke 16:19-31)

In this parable, Jesus had two “dead” characters, a rich man and Abraham, talking to one another, and the “dead” rich man is interceding for his living relatives. I guess they’re really alive, after all. Jesus also had the rich man call someone “Father”. But that’s another debate…

Jesus teaches by personal example
“After six days Jesus took with him Peter, James and John the brother of James, and led them up a high mountain by themselves. There he was transfigured before them. His face shone like the sun, and his clothes became as white as the light. Just then there appeared before them Moses and Elijah, talking with Jesus.” (Matthew 17:1-3)

In this incident, Jesus himself was talking to two “dead” people, Moses and Elijah. Except that they’re actually alive, aren’t they? :dancing:

John teaches through prophetic revelation
“He came and took the scroll from the right hand of him who sat on the throne. And when he had taken it, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb. Each one had a harp and they were holding golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints.” (Revelation 5:7-8)

The 24 elders in heaven each have a golden bowl full of the prayers of the saints. We’re all saints, aren’t we, brother? So, how did they get hold of our prayers to offer to God?

“Another angel, who had a golden censer, came and stood at the altar. He was given much incense to offer, with the prayers of all the saints, on the golden altar before the throne.” (Revelation 8:3)

Here, an angel is offering our prayers along with incense. Wait a second…incense? Isn’t that a Catholic thing? :yup:

 

[stinkcat_14]

Example the catholics pray to saints that have long passed over this is held in error by the none catholic community. Why is this held in error. Because we hold the scripture as being in authority over our conduct.

Actually Sola Scriptura is a minority viewpoint. It is not held by Eastern Orthodox Christians. Only by Western based non-Catholics, which is primarily protestants.

 

[Carrie_Andrews]

The point to debating is to cause both parties to grow in truth and understanding. Example the catholics pray to saints that have long passed over this is held in error by the none catholic community. Why is this held in error. Because we hold the scripture as being in authority over our conduct. A guide or a map in other words. Also it is writen yea shall have no gods before God. and it is also writen yea are gods. thus the conclusion is that you should not pray to any one other then God. In the fact the letters to the hebrews declares Jesus in fact has become the eternal high priest that makes right our prayer to God. It is futher shown that Christ was made high priest with a oath before His father for all time. And he is the one mediator between God and man. When Jesus was ask how to pray he said our Father. So in conculsion debating should be used to educate and teach not to be a pain or a pest. But debate should also shake your confort seat and drive to into the word of God so you can gain assurence from the truth of the word of God alone. Our faith is not in any man or religion it is in God and his goodness and his faithfullness. yeat not with standing men error which is human. In debating we should seek only the overall good result to bringing people into the truth of Gods love and the light of the truth.

Oh Thank you kind sir, for showing me the error of my ways! Now that I see the light I’d like to join up to your church, which one of the 30 thousand plus denominations do you belong to, each of them claim to have the truth, so I will need to know which one exactly you belong to. Seriously, instead of plowing through these excellent threads, you should be spending time in Catholic Answers, reading about what Catholics TRUELY believe, instead of spewing vemon and acting childish. You never seem to answer anyone, so it’s obvious you don’t truely care about the state of our souls, you only care about your ego, and that is most unchristian of you.

 

[m134e5]

I hope I am posting in the right spot. I wanted to ask advice about when to stop bothering debating a group of people. I frequent a website for mothers of all different religions and backgrounds, and we have a debate board. I have participated in numerous debates about gay marriage, Catholicism, atheism, abortion, etc. All the big issues. I always thought I was doing a pretty good job and got along pretty well with everyone.

I have started numerous debates on gay marriage, and today I asked, “If homosexuals want gay marriage for benefits, tax breaks, health insurance, then why do they need more than civil unions?” Whew, I got my head bitten off. I was called hateful, homophobic, mean, and of course, accused of trying to push my beliefs on everyone. Oh, and I’m discriminating because my religious beliefs are against gay marriage - all things I’m sure lots of people on this site have experienced.

I’m not shy about my beliefs my any stretch, but now I just don’t feel like I should put up with that kind of treatment. It’s not enjoyable for me anymore. However, I do think I have made some good points and wonder if I should stick around for anyone who might be receptive. Do you have any advice? When do you say enough is enough? Thank you very much.

Debating rude people online probably won’t accomplish much. Debating them in person (especially on moral issues) is difficult enough, because people give their emotions much more consideration than they give logic. Since the problem is online, and you don’t enjoy it anymore, don’t do it (at least for awhile).

 

[vern_humphrey]

I hope I am posting in the right spot. I wanted to ask advice about when to stop bothering debating a group of people. I frequent a website for mothers of all different religions and backgrounds, and we have a debate board. I have participated in numerous debates about gay marriage, Catholicism, atheism, abortion, etc. All the big issues. I always thought I was doing a pretty good job and got along pretty well with everyone.

I have started numerous debates on gay marriage, and today I asked, “If homosexuals want gay marriage for benefits, tax breaks, health insurance, then why do they need more than civil unions?” Whew, I got my head bitten off. I was called hateful, homophobic, mean, and of course, accused of trying to push my beliefs on everyone. Oh, and I’m discriminating because my religious beliefs are against gay marriage - all things I’m sure lots of people on this site have experienced.

I’m not shy about my beliefs my any stretch, but now I just don’t feel like I should put up with that kind of treatment. It’s not enjoyable for me anymore. However, I do think I have made some good points and wonder if I should stick around for anyone who might be receptive. Do you have any advice? When do you say enough is enough? Thank you very much.

First of all, when people attack the poster, and not the post, it’s generally an indication they have run out of things of substance. A personal attack, such as you have cited, is really an admission of failure – they have lost the argument and are mad at you for their own failure.

Next, when people resort to calling names, they’ve given good evidence that they are not amenable to logic – they don’t care what arguments you use. All they care about is their own prejudices.

So my answer would be something like, “I’m sorry you feel it necessary to insult me like that. Could you instead address the substance of my post, instead of making personal attacks like that?”

 

[TriLogic]

I found a lot of good advice in this thread from nearly everone who replied.

I think it’s good to realize when you’ve said/debated enough. By then the pople who are listening have heard what they need to hear - the truth. Long before then the people who are not interested in thruth have stopped listening.

The advice to give them the teaching of the church and let the Holy Spirit work is very good. The adivice to never give up is also very good - you never want to be unwilling to discuss/debate later if the opportunity arises AND the other party is genuinely interested in what you have to say.

One thing to never forget is to always pray pray for the people you are debating with - to be thankful for the opportunity you have to work for them, and alsoto ask God for the gift of faith for the other party.

 

[FromTheCrossroa]

Debates get tired anytime the same arguments are presented over and over without a open and honest dialog. Even debates here quickly denigrate to the old standby us vs them mentality. It would be nice if we could all discuss things, be respectful of each other and look for ways we can agree rather than tear each other down with the same old dog and pony show. For “Christians”, we’re supposed to be on the same team! You wouldn’t know it by viewing any denominational forum including ours.

Marry Christmas to y’all!